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Shooting non-repeatable events: weddings, recitals, plays, performances...


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Old May 20th, 2011, 07:25 AM   #1
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bluray topic

Ok so film in hd, cams hd, computor monitior hd, tv hd, bluray player hd, clients no hd????? why am i doing this hd thing, worklow good and i save hard copies sd and hd for future but not one client last year this year wants bluray!!!!! is it worth it?? past five years no one has come back and wanted a copy of there day with the bluray copy i keep for them , is it worth all the cost ive incurred or?? steve
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Old May 20th, 2011, 08:18 AM   #2
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Re: bluray topic

Same here, never been asked for one and no one has every ticked the option for one, even a booking I took yesterday doesn't want BluRay.
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Old May 20th, 2011, 08:24 AM   #3
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Re: bluray topic

I have several clients who ask for BluRay and it is great to provide it for them. Beyond that, I utilize online sites such as Vimeo to post my videos in HD, so they can shine there, display any same day edits or love stories at the reception on an HD projector, archive in HD for future technology (Internet TV is becoming increasingly popular), show my clients HD video in our meetings, and pull 1920x1080 still images from the HD video to post on my site.

To top it off, it just looks good and it's all about exceeding the clients needs. If we don't step up to the plate and blow the videos out of the water, then the bride might as well invest in a consumer camera and tripod to get the same low quality.

Be proud of your product and strive to impress yourself. That will constantly cause you to improve and appreciate your work.
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Old May 20th, 2011, 08:26 AM   #4
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Re: bluray topic

Hi Steve

I have exactly the same issue!! Bride's seldom know what a BD player is although the hubby has a fair idea!! I have never been asked for HD and just to get the opinion "from the horse's mouth" I posted a topic on the bridal forum where I advertise. Comments ranged from "I can't tell the difference" to "couldn't care less" and the only semi-encouraging remark was "hubby might watch it in HD" We all know that the hubby watches the wedding DVD maybe once and only because of obligation!! It's really a girl thing and the girls are more concerned with the content (as they should be) than your brilliant shots!!!

I was shooting weddings in 2008 with a 4:3 camera (don't laugh please) and realised that brides might want 16:9 ..not cos it was a better format but probably cos it gives them a better view of their wedding. Could I find an SD camera with 16:9 ??? Nope!!! All the decent cameras had gone straight to HD!!!

I actually could have done the very same job as I'm doing right now with an SD camera but had to buy an HD purely to get widescreen. My current HMC80 have an SD mode BUT I suspect it's purely a downconverter in the camera so I shoot in HD and have to go thru all the hassle of supplying a DVD and rendering out to SD!!!

The bottom line is even if the bride has an HD TV (most have) and even a BD player (few have those) it pretty certain that Grandma and Grandpa still have an old CRT TV as well as the parents so a DVD is still more desireable. We have to remember that brides are only really interested in memories and content and technical issues fall by the wayside.

I do keep my HD files on drives and edit in HD so if called on, I can render out in HD later. Bluray players in our part of the world are not popular and maybe we will see media players replacing them...for under $100 here you can get a really nice media player that will handle just about everything and a 1280x720 MP4 video absolutely blows away an SD one..... maybe we need to add the cost of either a mediaplayer or BD player to our packages?????? In my case, a media player would be cheaper and the files are far quicker to render too.

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Old May 20th, 2011, 08:46 AM   #5
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Re: bluray topic

Very similar to Chris's experience I only went to HD to get widescreen, no one had every mentioned HD, not even my business clients. The picture quality from Panasonic DV200s is superb but it is only 4:3

I suppose I could provide a BluRay disc as part of my product but I'd either have to do it at my expense, or jack the price up to cover it. I prefer not to insist clients take something they don't want so I do offer it at a very reasonable price but as I said, no takers.
I don't really see the point in transcoding for my benefit nor for archiving. I have a loft full of VHS going back years as well as all camera tapes (SVHS - Hi8 - DV - DVcam). I've had a rare occasion when I've gone back to use one.

If I ever get a request for a previous project - as I did yesterday, one from 2008 - it's always for DVD. I keep and ISO of every project to replicate from that. I also keep a trimmed copy of original quality PremPro project so I guess if I get requests for BluRay I can retrieve them and burn one from there.

I'm starting to fill the loft with HardDrives now.
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Old May 20th, 2011, 09:51 AM   #6
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Re: bluray topic

Now that I'm shooting with a large chipped camera, and the HD I shoot looks amazing, I'm going to push bluray.

I'm going to offer it for a very low price to people who signed up for my regular packages, and I may likely do it for the cost of the media on occasion, if necessary, just to raise demand for it, and for promotional purposes.

Whe friends and relatives see it, they WILL be impressed. My old SD videos look pretty bad compared to my present stuff, and I myself can barely stand SD anymore, as even the networks broadcast everything in HD. We don't even have cable, and even PBS is in HD mostly, and it just looks stunning.

If I have to I will purchase an inexpensive BR player and give it to them as part of the deal. I don't care. I just want to show this great footage off, which is the only way I can raise prices, which I must do to make up for the added time involved in post production.
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Old May 20th, 2011, 11:04 AM   #7
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Re: bluray topic

Jeff I see that you are using the Sony method. Take a loss to grab the market you want.

It seems that Sony made a loss on every PS3 machine they sold because they fitted them with an unnecessary BluRay player just to get BluRay into peoples homes and secure the largest market share of High Definition players. They were still smarting over loosing the home videotape market that they are prepared to do what it takes to grab the high ground in format wars.

I know how you must be so excited by the quality of product you are able to supply that you feel that people must want it but I don't subscribe to driving up the cost of a product. Then maybe your market is not so sensitive to price as mine is. I do make the offer but so far absolutely no interest.

Just a note on the free give away players.
A friend of mine, someone I know who use to be in this business, did that when DVD players dropped down to less than 20 here in UK. He bought a batch from a supermarket and gave one away with every order but gave up the idea when some couples came back to him when the machines broke down. He obviously hadn't passed on the shop receipts so they expected him to honour the warranty.
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Old May 20th, 2011, 11:27 AM   #8
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Re: bluray topic

If you stand before you client with your arms folded and with an expressionless face mumble almost unintelligibly, "You don't want to buy a BluRay do you?", I would expect that you wont sell many BluRay discs. If you make the effort to show the difference, your responses from brides will be different. There are some that don't want to provide BluRay for various reasons so they do an amazingly good job of sabotaging their lame sales 'effort'. I have discussed this issue with far too many couples to buy the "nobody wants BluRay" argument. That's a cover story for a preset bias or lack of knowledge and/or tools to produce BluRay discs easily.

I show the difference between BluRay and DVD discs to clients. I offer BluRay at an additional charge and almost half buy BluRay also. So sorry George, I'm not losing money, I'm making MORE money by offering BluRay in addition to DVD.

If you use a decent authoring program, you can output either BluRay of DVD with ease. You don't have to redo anything; just select which type of disc you are outputting - that's all there is to it. With the right tools, the "costs more" argument doesn't fly. I suppose if you look around hard enough, you can find those who still think VHS is the only way to fly - Who wants any of those round 'spinny things.'

I also offer clients their video on a hard disc in addition to DVD and/or BluRay discs because I don't believe in the long term reliability of optical media but that's a whole different discussion.
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Old May 20th, 2011, 11:30 AM   #9
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Re: bluray topic

Here most of my customers have nice HD televsions, some plasmas are sprinkled in there.

You misunderstand my aim. It is not to drive up prices, not at all. Instead, I wish to recoup my expenses and to be paid for time I am spending in post. I am now edting HD footage, and conversion time alone is ages.

My prices now are too low even for SD packages, as I had to drop them when the economy went south. I can now deliver a superior product, and it is quite fair to expect to be paid for it, don't you agree? This is a way I can now restore my pricing to a reasonalble rate.

In addition, this is the best method for self promotion, to deliver the best possible product.

And besides, it just looks SO much better! I want to share it with my customers!
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Old May 20th, 2011, 11:37 AM   #10
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Re: bluray topic

Good points all, Jim.

George, I plan to inivite customers to my home, or visit them if I must, and show them the difference beforehand, and it will certainly be an effective sales technique. Just as Jim is doing.

Will I really have to give away players? Highly unlikely. Is that my plan? Not really. My plan is to sell bluray, and on a case by case basis I want to get it out there as best I can. On occasion I may have to go the extra mile to make that happen, but my point is I'm willing to do what it takes to make it happen.

There are some that will not want bluray if it only costs an extra fifty cents, those are not who I will be trying to sell.
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Old May 20th, 2011, 12:05 PM   #11
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Re: bluray topic

I am offering Blu-ray standard. If they don't want it, I'll give them another DVD -- there's only a small cost difference between the two media, and very negligible time to make a Blu-ray. My Adobe workflow easily allows the same edited project to go out to either DVD or Blu-ray. I don't buy the "costs too much" thing either.
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Old May 20th, 2011, 12:10 PM   #12
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Re: bluray topic

Corey, your tactic is actually a good one, and I may consider it. I have a lot to learn about the process, as I haven't burned a single BR disc yet, but your attitude about the whole thing is refreshing.
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Old May 20th, 2011, 12:38 PM   #13
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Re: bluray topic

Bravo to you Jim but I don't know what you base your assumption on that I just -in your words -stand before you client with your arms folded and with an expressionless face mumble almost unintelligibly, "You don't want to buy a BluRay do you?"
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Old May 20th, 2011, 12:51 PM   #14
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Re: bluray topic

I suspect Jim was referring to videographers in general...not you specifically George. There are just so many that are not ready to produce bluray, and instead of just stating that they instead knock it not or pronounce it as not feasible.

There are certainly areas where bluray is uncommon, probably most areas this is true.

I know many of my clients have HD sets, and part of it is the "youngsters" here getting married already have a house and the latest electronics. I've been in their homes, and they are usually living together in a nicer home than mine before they are married.

Bluray really started taking off in the US this last Christmas season, with players available for under $100.

The vast majority of the population has no bluray, and many cannot afford the discs, people are out of work and suffering everywhere, but my customers are employed and seem to be immune so far from much of the woes affecting the rest of the population, though the price shopping for video is much more common than ever.
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Old May 20th, 2011, 01:06 PM   #15
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Re: bluray topic

Funny story...

My main client... I've been pushing Blu-Ray and they're just not interested... So I got to thinking. And I realize that Digital set top boxes didn't start to get any traction at all until they became the default and just started coming without customers asking for them. Color TVs didn't become ubiquitous until they just stopped offering B&W. So I just went out and bought a Blu-Ray player and gave it to the client and started making the default delivery package a DVD/Blu-Ray combo pack the way Disney does. I don't even ask; that's what they get. It cost $79 for the BD player and an extra $2 per delivery pack.

So I go there a couple of weeks ago and look at their beautiful Plasma HDTV with the BD player I bought for them... and the nice composite cable connecting the two.
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