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Shooting non-repeatable events: weddings, recitals, plays, performances...


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Old June 10th, 2011, 10:03 AM   #16
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Re: I hate the "I want it all for nothing clients"

Yea I definitely see my issues, each one I do I look to improve upon. That wedding was done by myself with a dvx. I went for a hiper youthful version that worked with my friends back on the east coast.

This wedding I am definitely doing it more classy and less shaky. This time I have a buddy as my 2nd shooter, xha1 for wide coverage and I rented 2 7ds, a glidetrack, a bunch of good lenses, 3 zooms with wired mics, and this time I will be running around with a monopod!

But yeah, I will be doing my editing style more like my buddy aquavivus.com. less quick cuts and more cinematic.

The only worries I have about this wedding is getting the audio great, cameras overheating, and getting things in focused as smoothly as possible, I got 2 days of practice thank god.
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Old June 10th, 2011, 10:34 AM   #17
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Re: I hate the "I want it all for nothing clients"

Sean,

First my usual disclaimer when posting regarding weddings, I am not a wedding shooter so this comes from a different creative perspective but, business is the same whether shooting corporate and movie gigs or weddings.

From my perspective there are three classifications of jobs, paid, unpaid, and charity work. I do some very limited unpaid work only for very close family members and friends who I consider family (like my kids godparents). For the unpaid work I make sure the only expenses I have are my time and maybe gas. For charity work I may incur some very minor actual hard costs but those go toward feeling good that I helped the local cause. These expenses are items like blank media, packaging, etc. Usually under a couple of hundred dollars and the benefit from a business standpoint is that I do get to write those off as charitable contributions and I have secured future jobs from contacts made during charitable shoots. Paid work is invoiced to the client after an agreed upon pay schedule is established.

So in your case you've really got yourself a paid job without the hope of making any money. When looked at from that standpoint you are only on the loosing end. But the bride has given you a great out. She already has said that she wants a different style than what you've done. She also has a clear idea of what she wants. So I would suggest that you give her two options. One, the couple goes out and finds the videographer that creates the style she wants. They'll quickly find the real cost involved.

The second option would be for you to do the shooting and editing for free. You'll try to create as close as possible, the style and video she wants. But, they will have to provide all equipment necessary. In other words, they pay for the rental directly. That way if she wants a spectacular jib shot they have to pay for the jib rental. If they want pristine sound, they'll have to pop for renting a bunch of wireless lavs and a multi-track recorder. If they want really cool Steadicam shots they have to rent the rig for you to use. That emphasize that you are really doing them favor because you are not charging them anything.

If you go along the current path you will almost surely end up with hurt feelings. The problem is, anytime someone pays you money, even if it is for just your cost of renting equipment, they feel they are paying you. If they were making the payments directly to the rental company, you will be just a great friend providing about $2K in free labor for shooting and editing their video.

Just my thoughts and how I would approach it from a business and friendship preservation standpoint.

-Garrett
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Old June 10th, 2011, 10:46 AM   #18
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Re: I hate the "I want it all for nothing clients"

Garrett, you framed it perfectly. He should do it for free and have her pay for the rentals. Perfect.
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Old June 10th, 2011, 10:52 AM   #19
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Re: I hate the "I want it all for nothing clients"

I hear you guys, I essentially am doing that except to lose the hassle, I ordered the rentals instead. Maybe I should have emphasized to them that its what Im really doing.
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Old June 10th, 2011, 11:12 AM   #20
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Re: I hate the "I want it all for nothing clients"

After your last post I'm afraid that I think you are either a very brave or extremely foolish.

You have limited experience, using unfamiliar kit which you clearly don't know how to get the best from and on top of that you are attempting to match your shooting style to some dream style the bride has. A bride who's already stated she's got you as your dirt cheap;' nice sort of client to foster.

You definitely seem to be clinging on to this like a terrier.

I guess that if you've already paid the rental you're stuck with it so very good luck with it.
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Old June 10th, 2011, 11:15 AM   #21
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Re: I hate the "I want it all for nothing clients"

Hi Sean, the issue will be who is cutting the check to the rental company. Even if you present them with the receipts and every backup detail if you pay the rental company and then they reimburse you, it leaves a different taste. Sounds crazy but that's been my experience. If they are paying the rental company directly they will view it as just another expense in their big day. You can do them an "additional favor" of setting everything up with the rental company and even picking up and dropping off all equipment, but have them pay for it from their credit card or cut a check directly to the rental house.

Again, sounds crazy and shouldn't make a difference but for some reason it does.

-Garrett
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Old June 10th, 2011, 11:23 AM   #22
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Re: I hate the "I want it all for nothing clients"

George, we can see now that he's already in, it's over. Sean has seen he might have handled it differently, and while he might not quite understand how it may turn out, he is accepting some feedback, and that is huge.

I suspect he has gotten in beyond the point of no return and will have to follow through. I just hope he comes out of it OK.
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Old June 10th, 2011, 11:36 AM   #23
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Re: I hate the "I want it all for nothing clients"

If I were to post this a month ago I already would have told them to go eat it but because Im alrdy in (I received the rented equipment yesterday), I think I need to make the best of the situation. I have the confidence in the equipment, I have used the 7D on a wedding with a buddy and after a few hours yesterday I feel like I have mastered the camera. Its just the techniques such as keeping the camera still while focusing that I need to practice.

I am going into this with the confidence that I will have awesome footage and product in the end and that will give me something legit to show future clients. I am not viewing this as job, I am viewing this as me paying my dues to one day get a job. Yeah I definitely should have handled it differently, but that is a mistake I can say I learned.

The first time I talked to the bride on the phone and she wanted to pay nothing, initially the conversation ended professionally with us just on two different wave lengths, I was doing what you guys are saying and told her to crazy, it costs so much to do what you want. BUT... after some thinking I told myself, if I dont do this, I probably wouldnt do a wedding this summer and I wanna get this side work going. Thats when I sid screw it, Im gonna do it.
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Old June 10th, 2011, 11:40 AM   #24
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Re: I hate the "I want it all for nothing clients"

Ok now you're there Sean I'm sure we're all pulling with you for it go well for you.

Maybe one day you'll be the one warning someone to walk away having been there and done that, like so many of us here.
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Old June 10th, 2011, 11:44 AM   #25
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Re: I hate the "I want it all for nothing clients"

Sean, your head is in the right place, and while I question that anyone could master the 7D in a few hours, who am I to say? Maybe you have.

We wish you the best, and hope everything comes out great. At tihis point we support you and want to see the best possible outcome for everyone.

Best of luck.
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Old June 10th, 2011, 11:51 AM   #26
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Re: I hate the "I want it all for nothing clients"

Lol, simple, 12 mins record, 45mins per 16gb card, shutter, aperture, white balance, zoom for focus, iso, detail settings etc... simple lol

Thanks for everyones input.
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Old June 10th, 2011, 12:18 PM   #27
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Re: I hate the "I want it all for nothing clients"

Good luck with this Sean. Just remember KISS. Had a 4 hour preproductiion meeting last night for an upcoming shoot of a scene where I get stuffed in the trunk of a car with the actor and we're lighting it only with an iPhone. That definitely didn't follow the KISS rule. I'll be shooting with a 5DMKII. Fun stuff to be stuck in a car trunk in the middle of summer. Unfortunately the actor isn't one of the good looking female leads.

-Garrett
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Last edited by Garrett Low; June 10th, 2011 at 12:53 PM.
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Old June 10th, 2011, 12:27 PM   #28
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Re: I hate the "I want it all for nothing clients"

KISS? i dont think I ever heard of that before
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Old June 10th, 2011, 12:51 PM   #29
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Re: I hate the "I want it all for nothing clients"

KISS = Keep It Simple Stupid.

I have to tell myself that every time I start planning these elaborate shots. Like yesterday. I talked myself and the producer into a long Steadicam shot that will be one continuous take. I think I just took what could have been a series of basic locked down shots pulling focus and made it into a long day of trying to track a woman pulling up on a Harley, dismounting, then walking into a crowed building and having the crowds part followed by a circle around her, ending in an OTS (over the shoulder) of her POV. Gonna be fun but will probably take all day to get all the beats right.
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Old June 10th, 2011, 02:31 PM   #30
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Re: I hate the "I want it all for nothing clients"

Definitely, I have an idea of all the must have shots (wide, cu, ms slider) and then every now and then when I have time ill try something new. One thing I wanna do is get a shot of both rings, just figuring when the best time to do that.
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