I hate the "I want it all for nothing clients"

Corey Graham · June 10th, 2011, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sean Nelson

One thing I wanna do is get a shot of both rings, just figuring when the best time to do that.

Usually the reception is when I try to do ring shots, because there's usually at least a little bit of down time at some point. Plus you can usually find some nice background/foreground elements to work with if the reception is decorated nicely.

John Knight · June 10th, 2011, 04:18 PM

My most "interesting" career moments have occured when I play the opposite game. To keep things fresh and keep friends and family guessing, try it.

Occassionally when a situation arises that we think raises red flags based on previous experiences, do the EXACT OPPOSITE of what your heart tells you - and do it with gusto!

You'll be amazed at what happens. Sometimes we tend to get a bit crusty and disillusioned with clients - it's great for the soul - sometimes backfires, but always a learning experience.

I had a client once - whining old woman, appeared to want a very simple 2hr real estate shoot, and to pay nothing for it. I rocked up, super pumped and offering all the trimmings and suggestions I could think of. I bought dollies, cobracranes, sliders - the works. I made her work her butt off as well, provide help, get food and we went solid for 8 hours! Didn't charge her anything.

She turned out to be VERY well connected and has referred over $300k of work to me in the past 5 years.

Twice a year I try this, sometimes my predjudices are well founded, sometimes not.

Roger Van Duyn · June 11th, 2011, 07:11 AM

There are also clients that like to test you first. They intentionally ramp up the pressure on a small gig to see how you respond. I had a soccer club game out of town. I didn't know who the guy was. I wound up with a dozen more games for a high school where he was booster club president here in town last season. This summer I'm doing highlight reels for individual players from that school working for scholarships. The client is already talking about next season. All because of one, low paying gig that was much more difficult than expected. Plus there have been referrals not related to soccer too!!!

Customer service pays off. Sometimes people who are hard to please turn out to be the best customers.

Chris Davis · June 11th, 2011, 08:14 AM

Hey Sean, you're in a tough situation, and it may be hard to pull out a "win", but you've got a great attitude and that goes a long way. I'm sure you'll do better in this situation than I would!

Let us know how it turns out.

Louis Maddalena · June 11th, 2011, 09:12 PM

Hey Sean,

As has been stated I'm sure we're all pulling for you to succeed on this one. It will not be easy and I honor your braveness even attempting to make this bride happy after what she has said going in. You are very confident in your self and I hope you'll be able to pull off what you have planned in your head.

However, I can't simply sit here and watch you go off to potentially meet your maker (trust me, crazy brides can sometimes feel like they'll kill you) with out giving you as much advice as I can. But first, I'll post a video or two here so you can learn a thing or two before shooting.

- camera placement

- camera movement
B&H HDSLR Hub: Learn With A Pro - a whole bunch of good workflow stuff and organizational advice for the day of.

Some tips:
Make sure that you have a mic on the groom and have a means of recording anything else that may happen (readers, music, etc), make sure that you also monitor this audio so that you're not stuck in editing with now sound...

Keep track of the 12 minute limits, use any method you can think of but make sure if its an alarm of some kind that its silent, just don't forget. Nothing sucks like having one of your cameras stop recording. If thre is down time at 6 minutes.. just double tap the record button to restart the 12 minute mark so it doesn't come at an important moment.

Just because you have a slider, doesn't mean you have to use it. Its a great tool and I love using mine but there are weddings that go by where I have it I just don't use it. When I first got the slider, I over used and and wished when I was editing that there were some more static shots.

Talk to the photographer ahead of time, tell him the style you're going for and let him know where you are planning on shooting from... Tell him its important that he doesn't get in your shot and likewise you'll try your best not to get in his. Be as nice as you can to him / her and you will find that this will be really easy.

Always keep an extra battery and memory card in your pocket at all times. If for some reason either one dies, you will not have to panic, you'll be able to smoothly place your new item in the camera... remember when shooting with DSLR's things will not be pretty a lot of times with regard to timing the cards, keeping track of where your batteries are are how much charge is in them, and how much media you have left in total.

Good luck, I hope all goes well and we'd love to see a edited piece at the end...

Louis

Sean Nelson · June 11th, 2011, 11:44 PM

Hey Louis,

Man thank you for that post, what a great last thing to read before going to bed. Right now the only question mark I have is where to place the lav mic on the groom, and if i should have it pointing down.

I know the slider shouldnt be over used. I am gonna use it for lots of static shots of the mansion and surroundings as soon as I get to the wedding to set up. One dream shot I want to really get is the slider going towards the bride and groom during the ceremony in the middle of the isle. The plan for the ceremony is to have my B cam guy get the left side to get the groom, a Cam C for a steady wide shot all the way in the back, and me with a monopod getting shots of the bride, crowd and everything else I can.

I spoke the the photographer, super cool about working with me. Now i am banking the priest isnt a doosh and tries to get me to stay stationary.

Sean Nelson · June 13th, 2011, 12:22 AM

so i finished the wedding today... BOY did i forget how tiresome it is... overall im pleased with what i got, i just dread uploading so many gigs of footage and so many audio clips from the zooms.

the only thing that concerns me is the ceremony coverage and toasts. the ceremony setup was so weird with a piece hanging over the pool with the bride and groom, very hard to get angles and it seemed they flew by the ceremony and it was tough for me to keep coverage on them while getting shots of the crowd etc. The heat warning of my 7d came on but luckily that was it. I was able to mic up the best man for the toast but his toast was quick and dumb, couldnt mic up the sister and the father said he wasnt doing it and then he goes ahead and does a speech. The speakers were on the walls in this small room with tables everywhere so nowhere to put my zoom, however i put it on a table pointing up, hopefully good enough.

so im gonna edit this video like a film with pieces of everything. after the bride wanting me to vide tape the signing of the marriage certificate and gave me a look wheever i went away from the signing makes me think shes gonna want everything in it... NOT GONNA HAPPEN lol.

June 10th, 2011, 04:18 PM	#32
John Knight Major Player Join Date: May 2008 Location: Auckland, New Zealand Posts: 588	Re: I hate the "I want it all for nothing clients" My most "interesting" career moments have occured when I play the opposite game. To keep things fresh and keep friends and family guessing, try it. Occassionally when a situation arises that we think raises red flags based on previous experiences, do the EXACT OPPOSITE of what your heart tells you - and do it with gusto! You'll be amazed at what happens. Sometimes we tend to get a bit crusty and disillusioned with clients - it's great for the soul - sometimes backfires, but always a learning experience. I had a client once - whining old woman, appeared to want a very simple 2hr real estate shoot, and to pay nothing for it. I rocked up, super pumped and offering all the trimmings and suggestions I could think of. I bought dollies, cobracranes, sliders - the works. I made her work her butt off as well, provide help, get food and we went solid for 8 hours! Didn't charge her anything. She turned out to be VERY well connected and has referred over $300k of work to me in the past 5 years. Twice a year I try this, sometimes my predjudices are well founded, sometimes not.

June 11th, 2011, 07:11 AM	#33
Roger Van Duyn Major Player Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Lakeland Florida Posts: 690	Re: I hate the "I want it all for nothing clients" There are also clients that like to test you first. They intentionally ramp up the pressure on a small gig to see how you respond. I had a soccer club game out of town. I didn't know who the guy was. I wound up with a dozen more games for a high school where he was booster club president here in town last season. This summer I'm doing highlight reels for individual players from that school working for scholarships. The client is already talking about next season. All because of one, low paying gig that was much more difficult than expected. Plus there have been referrals not related to soccer too!!! Customer service pays off. Sometimes people who are hard to please turn out to be the best customers. __________________ Roger My YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCAp...2AHr_pHFID5LDA

June 11th, 2011, 08:14 AM	#34
Chris Davis Trustee Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Willmar, MN Posts: 1,400	Re: I hate the "I want it all for nothing clients" Hey Sean, you're in a tough situation, and it may be hard to pull out a "win", but you've got a great attitude and that goes a long way. I'm sure you'll do better in this situation than I would! Let us know how it turns out.

June 11th, 2011, 09:12 PM	#35
Louis Maddalena Major Player Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: NYC Area. Posts: 550	Re: I hate the "I want it all for nothing clients" Hey Sean, As has been stated I'm sure we're all pulling for you to succeed on this one. It will not be easy and I honor your braveness even attempting to make this bride happy after what she has said going in. You are very confident in your self and I hope you'll be able to pull off what you have planned in your head. However, I can't simply sit here and watch you go off to potentially meet your maker (trust me, crazy brides can sometimes feel like they'll kill you) with out giving you as much advice as I can. But first, I'll post a video or two here so you can learn a thing or two before shooting. an intro to shooting a ceremony with EOS // canon cinema caravan on Vimeo - camera placement an intro to EOS stabilizers // canon cinema caravan on Vimeo - camera movement B&H HDSLR Hub: Learn With A Pro - a whole bunch of good workflow stuff and organizational advice for the day of. Some tips: Make sure that you have a mic on the groom and have a means of recording anything else that may happen (readers, music, etc), make sure that you also monitor this audio so that you're not stuck in editing with now sound... Keep track of the 12 minute limits, use any method you can think of but make sure if its an alarm of some kind that its silent, just don't forget. Nothing sucks like having one of your cameras stop recording. If thre is down time at 6 minutes.. just double tap the record button to restart the 12 minute mark so it doesn't come at an important moment. Just because you have a slider, doesn't mean you have to use it. Its a great tool and I love using mine but there are weddings that go by where I have it I just don't use it. When I first got the slider, I over used and and wished when I was editing that there were some more static shots. Talk to the photographer ahead of time, tell him the style you're going for and let him know where you are planning on shooting from... Tell him its important that he doesn't get in your shot and likewise you'll try your best not to get in his. Be as nice as you can to him / her and you will find that this will be really easy. Always keep an extra battery and memory card in your pocket at all times. If for some reason either one dies, you will not have to panic, you'll be able to smoothly place your new item in the camera... remember when shooting with DSLR's things will not be pretty a lot of times with regard to timing the cards, keeping track of where your batteries are are how much charge is in them, and how much media you have left in total. Good luck, I hope all goes well and we'd love to see a edited piece at the end... Louis __________________ Red Epic available for rent, starting at $500 per day, Scarlets, and Lenses available too. rentals.maddalenamedia.com

June 11th, 2011, 11:44 PM	#36
Sean Nelson Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Las Vegas, NV Posts: 84	Re: I hate the "I want it all for nothing clients" Hey Louis, Man thank you for that post, what a great last thing to read before going to bed. Right now the only question mark I have is where to place the lav mic on the groom, and if i should have it pointing down. I know the slider shouldnt be over used. I am gonna use it for lots of static shots of the mansion and surroundings as soon as I get to the wedding to set up. One dream shot I want to really get is the slider going towards the bride and groom during the ceremony in the middle of the isle. The plan for the ceremony is to have my B cam guy get the left side to get the groom, a Cam C for a steady wide shot all the way in the back, and me with a monopod getting shots of the bride, crowd and everything else I can. I spoke the the photographer, super cool about working with me. Now i am banking the priest isnt a doosh and tries to get me to stay stationary.

June 13th, 2011, 12:22 AM	#37
Sean Nelson Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Las Vegas, NV Posts: 84	Re: I hate the "I want it all for nothing clients" so i finished the wedding today... BOY did i forget how tiresome it is... overall im pleased with what i got, i just dread uploading so many gigs of footage and so many audio clips from the zooms. the only thing that concerns me is the ceremony coverage and toasts. the ceremony setup was so weird with a piece hanging over the pool with the bride and groom, very hard to get angles and it seemed they flew by the ceremony and it was tough for me to keep coverage on them while getting shots of the crowd etc. The heat warning of my 7d came on but luckily that was it. I was able to mic up the best man for the toast but his toast was quick and dumb, couldnt mic up the sister and the father said he wasnt doing it and then he goes ahead and does a speech. The speakers were on the walls in this small room with tables everywhere so nowhere to put my zoom, however i put it on a table pointing up, hopefully good enough. so im gonna edit this video like a film with pieces of everything. after the bride wanting me to vide tape the signing of the marriage certificate and gave me a look wheever i went away from the signing makes me think shes gonna want everything in it... NOT GONNA HAPPEN lol.