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Old July 13th, 2011, 09:30 PM   #1
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Ceremony videos: do you keep the church's music or dub in your own?

We're editing some more ceremony videos, including a 10 minute montage of a 25 minute ceremony, and I'm curious to hear what others do re: ceremony music. In the past we've put out documentary style ceremony videos that are exactly the same length as the ceremony itself. Accordingly, we've kept whatever music was played during the ceremony.

However, especially now that we're sometimes abbreviating ceremonies, it's difficult to preserve the original music that was played during the ceremony, be it organ, harp, or CD, while, for example, abbreviating the wedding party's walk down the aisle.

I'm interested to hear what approach most of you take. There's obviously pros and cons to both methods.
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Old July 13th, 2011, 11:58 PM   #2
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Re: Ceremony videos: do you keep the church's music or dub in your own?

Hi Kevin

Unless the music has an issue I always use live music..my main camera also handles the 3 audio sources and it runs non-stop during the ceremony. However if you are doing a version cut to music then you can use a dubbed in version otherwise you do have an issue.... If I for some reason have to cut the master track, all I do is keep the original audio track full length....it's usually more genuine as it has the ambient guest audio and general venue ambience all mixed in.

There have been times (mainly civil weddings) when the CD player stopped or the assistant played the wrong track and stopped and changed it. In those cases I would use a dubbed version!!

Chris
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Old July 14th, 2011, 02:09 AM   #3
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Re: Ceremony videos: do you keep the church's music or dub in your own?

I'm surprised that the whole minute for minute ceremony is ever supplied.
I have always cut the ceremony as follows.
All cameras are recording continuously but I start from a close up of the groom as the music starts then cut and edit from the best shots from either camera, cutting out any crash zooms and re-focusing and end with the bride reaching the groom and the celebrant's introduction. I keep the start of the wedding march (or whatever music is playing) and make sure the end of the music matches the end shot then find a convenient point somewhere in the middle to do an audio edit. Most tracks do repeat phrases.This typically reduces the section by half realtime.
After the formal introduction I cut the pre-amble and cut back in again at the declarations.
With hymns I only use the first verse.
I include the readings and an edited version of the homily (unless requested to keep it in it's entirety -I'm rarely asked to).
I include the full exchange of vows and rings and traditional blessing.
When they sign the register (I don't know if this is part of the ceremony in other countries) I have one camera on the choir or organist and use one piece as a audio bed and edit the shots of signing to that, again cuts realtime by half or more.
When they walk out again I keep the music running but edit the shots until they are outside then cross fade the music to the live outside track.

My full ceremony is 15-20 minutes max.
I've always delivered this form, I fully explain it at the planing booking stage. I have only been asked 3 or 4 times to keep the whole ceremony, each time as a close family member was conducting the ceremony or was in the choir. Even then I cut a lot of the 'stage directions' given by the celebrant.

As for dubbing other music, I've never dubbed different music over the ceremony except one time many years ago when someone who was shooting a wedding for me had a problem with his mic and never recorded any sound. This was many years ago back in the days of shooting to SVHS when back-ups, radio mics and DVRs were not routinely used. After spending more time than ever editing (tape to tape) to make the most of what I had and then giving it for free. I made two decisions. Never let anyone film under my name, and make better provision for back-up and additional audio recording.
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Old July 14th, 2011, 11:36 AM   #4
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Re: Ceremony videos: do you keep the church's music or dub in your own?

I'm like George -- though maybe not quite as abbreviated.

And I use their church's music in the documented running footage version, editing a continuous sounding version of that ambient sound over the abbreviated video edit. Sounds authentic that way, and yet it shortens the wedding and trims the fat. And still feels like you're seeing the whole thing. And yes, definitely only a verse or so of the hymns, while getting in cutaways of guests, etc., at those points.
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Old July 14th, 2011, 09:01 PM   #5
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Re: Ceremony videos: do you keep the church's music or dub in your own?

Hi George

I shoot the whole ceremony from start to finish on the main camera which also captures the audio from the array of radio mics too.

Now, I never said that I USE all the footage..just shoot all the footage as it's way easier to record the lot!!

Depending on the ceremony, I will use the bridal arrival down the aisle, the father handing over her daughter and the priest's opening welcome...I drop all prayers and then cut to the readings (which most brides want) On Catholic ceremonies I do include the Gospel reading from the lectern but again skip the homily (it's usually long and boring!!) and cut straight to the vows...I obviously capture the vows and rings and include the candle ceremony. From there it's straight to the register and presenting the bride and groom and exit. Our Catholic ceremonies are usually around 45 minutes and my final is between 15 and 20 mins!! However if a get a request to include a long form ceremony, at least I have everything on card!!

Civil ceremonies here (most Summer ceremonies are outdoors!!!) are often under 20 minutes so it's almost a pre-condensed Church ceremony and has no "extras" Some are super quick (my record is 6 minutes and 35 seconds from bridal entrance to bridal exit... a true example of a "quickie")

Chris
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Old July 15th, 2011, 02:37 AM   #6
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Re: Ceremony videos: do you keep the church's music or dub in your own?

Hi Chris. It seems that we have a similar approach. I do of course keep all cameras running; my skill is not so great as to be able to edit as I go (nor my nerves), although like you that's what I did (had to do) when I shot on one VHS camera (Pana F15+NV180 combo) many years ago. What I've outlines is what's left after I've edited it.
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Old July 15th, 2011, 03:40 AM   #7
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Re: Ceremony videos: do you keep the church's music or dub in your own?

Hi George

If I was doing a single cam shoot I would probably shoot for editing and skip the boring bits "in camera"..My "A-Cam" is basically un-attended most of the time and frames the couple and priest (but I do swing it over to the lectern for readings) My attention is mainly on the B-Cam shoot so I can get guests and reverse angle shots but I do skip over to the A-Cam now and again to make sure all is OK!!!

Once I get myself a nice 26 year old blonde second shooter who wears short skirts and works for free, I can pay more attention to shooting for editing on the A-Cam... for now it's better that I just let it record the whole lot and use the second cam to make the boring 45 min ceremony more interesting!!

Ahhh!! the good old F15..that was an impressive looking camera in it's day..the NV180 was a tad heavy on a shoulder strap I used to dump mine on the floor when I could and my cam went even further back than yours!! I started with a WVP100 camera and the HV180 before going to an M7 prior to the SVHS days!!!

Chris
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Old July 15th, 2011, 08:08 AM   #8
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Re: Ceremony videos: do you keep the church's music or dub in your own?

Interesting topic, as I was just thinking about this myself.

We usually do two versions of the ceremony: the full length version, which is an option to watch...sort of an extra feature...and the abbreviated version, which is the version in our main video. It sounds very similar to what Chris does...We use the live music to when the wedding party is walking in, keep the opening prayer, skip to any readings with some sort of piano or instrumental dubbed low over them, and then skip to the vows/rings/unity candle. fade out and add the "I now pronounce you..." part and use the live music from the end.

I was just considering, though, if I even need to provide the full-length version at all? How many of you do? For Catholic weddings, it's SO long, and I can't even imagine most people ever sitting down to watch it! Maybe I'll ask some of my former brides whether they think it's necessary...
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Old July 15th, 2011, 08:25 AM   #9
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Re: Ceremony videos: do you keep the church's music or dub in your own?

Hi Katie

I think as long as you do the readings, candles and the vows and rings (and of course the register) 99% of brides will be happy with having the prayers skipped...as mentioned a 45 minute ceremony can usually be done in around 15 minutes.

I think I had just one mother who wanted the entire ceremony as an extra!! but the main DVD still had just the shortened ceremony.

Just as an extra I also supply the bride with an "online" ceremony on their own web page and with that it's arrival, vows, rings and kiss!! Where we have civil ceremonies I add the register and exit but readings are always skipped and brides love it!!

Bottom line, I guess, is as long as you get the vows and the ring exchange..you are heading in the right direction!! Before and after events are always "trimmable"

Chris
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Old July 15th, 2011, 09:53 AM   #10
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Re: Ceremony videos: do you keep the church's music or dub in your own?

I agree, I find that 99% of couple want the mandatiry stuff but not the nothing else. Ring Exchange, vows, processional, readings, usually cuts it down to around 10-12 mins and generally no live music unless they have a friend or relative that is performing. Bottom line I always ask before the day how they prefer the ceremony editing and shoot it in its entirety regardless.

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Old July 15th, 2011, 10:50 AM   #11
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Re: Ceremony videos: do you keep the church's music or dub in your own?

45 minutes...haha I have to laugh at that one...we did a full Catholic mass 2 weeks ago that was 1 hour and 20 minutes...UGH. I was celebrating one in May where the preist got a VERY full church through the full mass in an hour.
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Old July 15th, 2011, 11:29 AM   #12
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Re: Ceremony videos: do you keep the church's music or dub in your own?

when I do long form doco style I cut the air, cut communion (if Catholic full mass) down to the B&G only and with creative use of dissolves it works fine. Yes, some will talk until you can't stand it anymore and want to poke yourself in the eye with a sharp pencil, other blast thru it almost so fast you wonder if you fell asleep at the camera and didn't realize it.
For short form cine style, the ceremony is 8 to12 minutes and I do use the live music however I do some time shifting and find the right spot in the nusic to fade it. I try to blend everything so no one will realize the 60 minute ceremony was "rearranged".
Do what you feel is right and what will satisfy the client. I couldn't do a short form edit for someone expecting a doco style. I think I would get yelled at. ;-)
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Old July 15th, 2011, 03:40 PM   #13
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Re: Ceremony videos: do you keep the church's music or dub in your own?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Katie Fasel View Post
I was just considering, though, if I even need to provide the full-length version at all?
I provide the full ceremony almost every time. The only time I don't is if there's a full mass, in which case I get the B&G, party and immediate family and then dissolve to the next thing. I feel it's part of the "documentary" style to preserve/document as much as is necessary.
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Old July 15th, 2011, 04:52 PM   #14
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Re: Ceremony videos: do you keep the church's music or dub in your own?

When I first started doing short form edits in the last century (get it, last century you know 1990s----------ah well never a good comedian) anyway, I was starting out with the long form edit anyway so it wasn't a long jump to the short form and it was easy to supply the long form edit as well. Especially since I was afraid at the time that the clients would yell at me for not capturing their day in it entirety. Fast forward a few years and I realized nobody was watching the long form version so I stopped giving it. Somehow over the years I evolved back to long form doco style and now when I do a short form it's a pleasure and lots of fun but they don't get the long form ceremony. I've always said that as long as they know what they are buying when they buy it, there shouldn't be a problem.
Having said this, you have to do what you feel comfortable with.
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Old July 15th, 2011, 09:02 PM   #15
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Re: Ceremony videos: do you keep the church's music or dub in your own?

Hi Katie

I forgot to mention that the 45 minutes was for what we usually have here. A Catholic wedding but they skip the mass ... it's called a short wedding by the Church ..HAH!!! Yeah I had a full one back in May here that had mass as well and it took pretty much an hour and a bit!!!

I normally talk to the couple if they are having "the works" and suggest that we don't even film the holy mass nor the homily (which can easily take up 30 mins!!)

Chris
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