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Wedding / Event Videography Techniques
Shooting non-repeatable events: weddings, recitals, plays, performances...


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Old August 30th, 2005, 10:26 AM   #1
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hi everyone! made some fixes to a clip that i originally linked here as a work-in-progress.

as promised, here is the second pass to share (quicktime):
http://www.infinite-studios.com/movi...ghlightsv2.mov

change list:

- removed mic hiss
- color correction pass
- added slight edge vignetting
- a few small edits

the old version can be found here (quicktime):
http://www.infinite-studios.com/movi...Highlights.mov
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=48132

thanks so much for your time.
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Old August 30th, 2005, 01:47 PM   #2
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What camera was it shot with?

Are you looking for critique A.J.?
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Old August 30th, 2005, 02:33 PM   #3
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hi craig,

this was shot with 2 vx2100's and a vx2000. audio on a senn eng100 ew. critiques are always welcome.
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Old August 30th, 2005, 03:48 PM   #4
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HI AJ

Here's a view from my side and is aimed at being constuctive so please don't feel offended - I'd like to give it to you from my viewpoint.

Switching too often between the bride and groom during the vows was a tad too often. Using the officiant as a shot for another two verses (like you did towards the end of the vows) also highlights significance of the moment. I would rather have had each of the B&G say one verse and then cut to the the other for another two verses etc.

Maybe your color correction pass was a bit much on the shot of the "kiss" with the BMs and GM's in the background. In my mind it didn't match the shot before and after - faces were a bit washed. Where the B&G passes in front of the chap with the dark suit (about 1:38) and blue shirt, a fade to dark would work nice here to transition into another shot. Its also at this point where the exposure increases (color correction??) for a brief period as can be seen on his suit.

I liked the first 'wine barrel kiss' shot using the foreground barrel to add depth to the shot - nice move. The 'fast pan' into the dance is also cool - liked that. Sets the mood for the coming shot - the dance.

The champagne shot had a nicely exposed background - personally, I would have used the second camera flash to fade to another shot. Some shots were a bit over-exposed for my personal liking but that could be as a result of your color correction??

Heck, I've torn this apart from my view point but hoped that my views were seen from a different perspective. Its always difficult to crit another's work using your own perspectives.

Overall I liked the clip and the B&G should be happy with your work. Lets hope others don't bang you as much as I did - lol. Again, its my viewpoint only.

Keep it up.

Cheers
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Old August 30th, 2005, 03:54 PM   #5
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A.J.,

First of all let me say that any advice Glen would give you trumps mine. His work is definately on par with the elite in the industry, despite all the modesty.

It seems that you have a lot of enthusiasm A.J. and that's a good thing. So I'll just be honest with you and feel free to agree or disagree it's only one person's opinion.

The fades were over done and added a level of predictability to the video that made it seem a bit amaturish. Using this one transition througout caused the video not to have any layers. Your audience will likely expect to see layers, at least some. How do you create layers? Cross-dissolves are the most common way to do it. I'm not saying replace all fades with cross dissolves - just that every once in a while you can impact the viewer with 2 images at once. Occassionaly, depending on the music I'll stretch a few of them out over 3 seconds.

Your moving camera techniques need some work... but honestly some of mine aren't too much better. Once in a while I really bow it but since the content was so much better than take-2 or take-3 I'll use it anyway. This may sound a bit over the top but occasionaly I pick a camera path and excersize with the camera for about 10-15 minutes. It's not enough to know the technique, as with any motor-skill you are trying to perfect, creating muscle memory is what you need to do.

The opening scenes, after the vows were too long and missing the recessional. I definately would have gotten a camera back to the center isle for the recessional shots. Man, they are some of the most awesome shots of the day. And way back when I used to do one camera shoots I used to coach the B&G before-hand and tell them not start their walk together until they see me in the isle. I have a few videos in which this scene was so good that I began and ended with it. You must get the recesional!

There's a lot of effort in your work A.J. and my critique is just one man's opinion. Keep working hard, be open to new ideas and refer to Glen's training resources whenever you've got some spare change.
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Old August 30th, 2005, 04:35 PM   #6
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I really appreciated the bold style that you gave the video by your choice of color correction.
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Old August 30th, 2005, 08:01 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A.J. Briones
hi everyone! made some fixes to a clip that i originally linked here as a work-in-progress.

as promised, here is the second pass to share (quicktime):
http://www.infinite-studios.com/movi...ghlightsv2.mov

change list:

- removed mic hiss
- color correction pass
- added slight edge vignetting
- a few small edits

the old version can be found here (quicktime):
http://www.infinite-studios.com/movi...Highlights.mov
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=48132

thanks so much for your time.
First of all what software and computer system are you using?
Also were you the only camera operator? How stressful was that day?
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Old August 31st, 2005, 02:37 PM   #8
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hi all. thanks for everyone's feedback so far.

my responses, in reverse order:

dante: i'm using final cut pro 5 on a dual g5. i was not the only shooter. all our packages are 3-camera packages. all cameras are manned. i actually have a lot of fun at weddings, so it's no stress at all. otherwise, i'd get out of the business.

patrick: thanks so much for the kind words! very motivating!

craig: thanks so much for the detailed critique, i'm definitely grateful for it. it's tough to remove myself from the project and view the piece as if i've never seen it, so i really value comments from others.

that said, i think we have opposing philosophies with regards to editing, as i'm of the belief that the more varied the transitions, the more "amateurish" a product looks, especially over time. dip to color dissolves, wipes and other such transitions may be in style now, but one just needs to take a look at an 80's or 90's wedding video to see that flashy transitions don't age gracefully. my primary focus in my business is to ensure that the edit is timeless, and that the real moments take precedence over transitions and effects. i also edit movie-style, not music video style. all that aside, this is *my* style. i let brides know this upfront, and they see it in my reel. your style is different, and by no means am i looking down on anyone's work or editorial style when i say this. i've seen some really nice transitions in the work showcased on this forum, it's just not for me.

you are totally correct when it comes to the camera moves needing more work. we're getting better over time, and we've employed wider angle lenses and monopods to help minimize the movement and get more dramatic shots. i'm in the middle of editing some of them now, and the stability the wider angle lenses provide really make a huge difference... i may post another work in progress since i really like the quality critiques i'm getting so far.

re: the recessional, the photographer ruined that angle. he took 3 pictures and decided to stand right in front of the 3rd cameraman (you can actually see his elbow on some of the wide shots). it happens. too bad for the b&g, but i'm not going to get mad about it (gets me nowhere). i might still put it in just to show them how a great shot was ruined, and show all my future brides so they can ask their photographers to show some consideration. i'm going to try to salvage some moments and put it in slow motion just to have something, but there's not much to work with.

jeremy: thanks for the feedback! with regards to the switching of angles during the vows, my goal was to show the closeups as well as the shot with the officiants evenly, and edit a longer set of vows as if it were one continuous piece (also editing out the officiant in the process). i showed the bride closeup 4 times, groom closeup 4 times, and the wide shot 4 times, so i feel as though it's pretty even.

re: 1:38, i agree! good point. the exposure change you are seeing is the vignetting square on the guy's back. i should probably be at full black and cut to a new shot by the time his left shoulder reaches the center of the screen.

thanks again for the feedback everyone!
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Old August 31st, 2005, 05:35 PM   #9
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nice

Quote:
Originally Posted by A.J. Briones
hi all. thanks for everyone's feedback so far.

my responses, in reverse order:

dante: i'm using final cut pro 5 on a dual g5. i was not the only shooter. all our packages are 3-camera packages. all cameras are manned. i actually have a lot of fun at weddings, so it's no stress at all. otherwise, i'd get out of the business.
Your welcome to do the color correction you didn't use any plugins like Magic Bullet? I am asking because this is something I'd like to do.
What exactly are the full specsL

Ram
Harddrive size
screen size
video card
Just would like to know how smooth it runs. I'm guessing you used soundtrack pro to remove the hissing in the audio.
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Old August 31st, 2005, 06:29 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante Waters
Your welcome to do the color correction you didn't use any plugins like Magic Bullet? I am asking because this is something I'd like to do.
What exactly are the full specsL

Ram
Harddrive size
screen size
video card
Just would like to know how smooth it runs. I'm guessing you used soundtrack pro to remove the hissing in the audio.
- dual 1.8 g5 powermac with 2 gigs of ram
- final cut suite
- magic bullet editor suite
- each client project is on a separate 250gig internal sata drive, and the main drive is also 250gb
- by screen size, if you mean on my editing setup, i am using 3 crt screens (17", 17", 15"). if you mean the sequence, it's anamorphic 16:9.
- i am using the stock video card that came with the powermac plus a second video card (radeon 64mb)
- soundtrack pro to remove noise

rendering times are not fast with magic bullet. compressor rendering is also affected. i thought i was through with long render times when i upgraded from my powermac g4 933, but no. it's worth the wait, though. i'm also using a misfire vignetting filter and an fcp color correction filter with mb, so it all adds to the wait times.
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Old September 1st, 2005, 09:00 AM   #11
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A.J.,

I believe cheesy titling, bad canned-animations, uncreative/inexperienced camera operators, night baseball-game-look lighting, and the limitations of linear editing systems are some of the things that "dated" many videos produced in the 80's. But nothing will "date" your videos more than song selection. And that said, you many have stepped in some doo doo on this one. But aside from that, to use only one transition thoughout, in my opinion, is a bit like an artist painting with one color, or an auto mechanic using only vice-grips.

o.k. I'll shut up now.

Last edited by Craig Terott; September 1st, 2005 at 10:22 AM.
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Old September 1st, 2005, 11:29 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Terott
A.J.,

I believe cheesy titling, uncreative/inexperienced camera operators, night baseball-game-look lighting, and the limitations of linear editing systems are some of the things that "dated" many videos produced in the 80's. But nothing will "date" your videos more than song selection. And that said, you many have stepped in some doo doo on this one. But aside from that, to use only one transition thoughout, in my opinion, is a bit like an artist painting with one color, or an auto mechanic using only vice-grips.

o.k. I'll shut up now.
hi craig,

the song selection is from the bride and groom. do i like the song? do i hate it? do i think a different song would be better? it doesn't matter. this song has a lot of meaning for the b&g, and i am making this video for them.

is aerosmith doo doo? to you, maybe. is garth brooks doo doo? are the dixie chicks doo doo? is coldplay doo doo? are the beatles doo doo? is tupac doo doo? music is subjective. personally, my answer is yes to a few of the names i mentioned, but they have all sold millions of records, and i've had to use their songs in wedding videos (yes, even tupac).

the song selection does date the video, but in a good way, because it is a moment in time, and for them, these songs mattered at that moment in time. my opinion of the song is of no consequence because it is not my video.

regarding your "artist using one color" analogy, yes, i agree. i limit myself to a minimal palette, and this is by choice. most movies use only 3 types of edits: straight cut, fade, dissolve. this is my editorial style.
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Old September 1st, 2005, 12:04 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A.J. Briones
hi craig,

the song selection is from the bride and groom. ... it doesn't matter. this song has a lot of meaning for the b&g, and i am making this video for them.
...
the song selection does date the video, but in a good way,
...
Unfortunately the use of copyrighted material for the song seriously mars the professionalism in an otherwise nice piece of work. I apologise if the music rights have been legally secured but if they haven't, using it no matter how badly the couple wants it in is a decided negative. I assume you wouldn't violate other laws to make them happy so why make that one the exception?
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Old September 1st, 2005, 12:58 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve House
Unfortunately the use of copyrighted material for the song seriously mars the professionalism in an otherwise nice piece of work. I apologise if the music rights have been legally secured but if they haven't, using it no matter how badly the couple wants it in is a decided negative. I assume you wouldn't violate other laws to make them happy so why make that one the exception?
hi steve, i'm doing a search on this forum now because i know this has been a subject that has been covered, re-covered, and re-re-covered. all the companies in my area are doing this, and of course, dj's as well.

i will see what the search pulls up. if any of you have any links to share on this subject, please do share.

thanks!
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Old September 1st, 2005, 04:27 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A.J. Briones
hi steve, i'm doing a search on this forum now because i know this has been a subject that has been covered, re-covered, and re-re-covered. all the companies in my area are doing this, and of course, dj's as well.

i will see what the search pulls up. if any of you have any links to share on this subject, please do share.

thanks!
One of the best overviews is the excellent discussion posted in the articles right here on DV INFO by Douglas Spotted Eagle. Just FYI - there are totally different issues regarding music usage by the DJs versus its inclusion in a video. DJ's must deal with performance rights just like radio stations, elevator companies, doctors offices, grocery stores, etc. Videographers must deal with reproduction and syncronization rights which are sadly quite a bit more arcane. But the basic bottom line is if it's music from a commercial recording unless you have an explicit license from the copyright owners (and have paid whatever they demand in exchange) you simply can't use it for anything beyond playing it on your car stereo as you drive to the shoot <g>. There are darned few exceptions and it's virtually certain that no wedding video we might shoot is going to qualify for one -- and there are no loopholes or workarounds you can exploit, they were all plugged a long time ago.

Your options are esentially...
1: License music from buy-out or needle drop libraries,
2: Compose and perform the music yourself or have your employees do it,
3: Track down all various copyright holders and pay whatever they demand for a license to use the piece.

It's a shame, really, because there are so many scofflaws around who ignore the law that being legal puts the rest at a competitive disadvantage. But all it takes is one lawsuit and you can lose everything that has taken you years to build. If the RIAA is sueing 12 year olds for thousands of dollars for posting 1 song on Napster, how sympathietic do you think they're going to be to our "but everyone does it!" Their response will likely be "and we want everyone to stop so we're going to make you an example and put your head on a spike in the public square."
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