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Old January 11th, 2012, 06:11 AM   #1
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Are you thinking of moving to short form? What are your concerns?

Deleted, people were going off topic.

Last edited by Danny O'Neill; January 11th, 2012 at 02:15 PM.
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Old January 11th, 2012, 11:59 AM   #2
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Re: Are you thinking of moving to short form? What are your concerns?

Hi Danny

I honestly think most brides want both. I have been offering short form for years as well as long form. We as editors of course love to wow the couple with a high impact short form video, in my case short form means 20-25 min. When it comes down to it though most clients still have this more is better mentality and want more than just the 25 min video. Up until this year I have always offered a long form option, short form option only and an option that has both long and short forms. It was very rare that someone would book the short form only, they almost always booked the combination package. So, this year I did away with the short form only option and just went with the combo.

I think it is important to have options and not just offer one particular thing, unless you have more business than you can handle:)
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Old January 11th, 2012, 12:32 PM   #3
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Re: Are you thinking of moving to short form? What are your concerns?

There's no way I would go to short form only. I agree with Chad -- brides want both. I've talked with countless brides who think it's ridiculous to pay someone twice as much as I charge for only a 20-minute video, no matter how creatively edited. They want to relive the day from beginning to end, seeing as many family and friends as they can, and as much of what happened as possible. Couples here want long-form documentary style.

But like I said, they like a much shorter form edit for quick viewing on top of that.
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Old January 11th, 2012, 12:43 PM   #4
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Re: Are you thinking of moving to short form? What are your concerns?

Deleted, going off topic.

Last edited by Danny O'Neill; January 11th, 2012 at 02:15 PM.
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Old January 11th, 2012, 12:55 PM   #5
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Re: Are you thinking of moving to short form? What are your concerns?

20 years from now, the brides of short form videos will regret not having a long form version. I got this info from brides I shot 20 years ago. To them, the more footage you have of every guest/family member without music in the background, the better.
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Old January 11th, 2012, 02:17 PM   #6
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Re: Are you thinking of moving to short form? What are your concerns?

Deleted. The question wasn't what you thought of short form. People going off topic.
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Old January 11th, 2012, 02:22 PM   #7
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Re: Are you thinking of moving to short form? What are your concerns?

I don't know if you still want to carry on this thread Danny, but for me, my fears would include getting too much, or worse-not enough footage!

I know myself that I'd probably want to shoot everything on the day, and then try to include as much as I can in the edit. Did you find it difficult to change your mindset when you started to change to short form?
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Old January 11th, 2012, 05:54 PM   #8
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Re: Are you thinking of moving to short form? What are your concerns?

Switched to short form and never looked back BUT..with the short form we provide full ceremony, full toasts,intros and formal dances. Once we advise the client about that, It's not a hard sell.
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Old January 12th, 2012, 02:22 AM   #9
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Re: Are you thinking of moving to short form? What are your concerns?

Did they make you cry Danny? Can we send you a nice fruit basket to cheer you up?
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Old January 12th, 2012, 03:47 AM   #10
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Re: Are you thinking of moving to short form? What are your concerns?

No, I asked a simple question and people decided to read it as "tell me why anyone would bother switching to short form". Not sure how they got that though.

The fruit basket would be nice though.
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Old January 12th, 2012, 04:51 AM   #11
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Re: Are you thinking of moving to short form? What are your concerns?

Deleted?? The original question was whether you'd consider going to short-form, and what your reservations would be. I answered the question, and gave my rationale. Off topic? Hardly.

This thread has been rendered useless by the OP, and should be wiped out all together.
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Old January 12th, 2012, 09:45 AM   #12
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Re: Are you thinking of moving to short form? What are your concerns?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian VanCattenburch View Post
Switched to short form and never looked back BUT..with the short form we provide full ceremony, full toasts,intros and formal dances. Once we advise the client about that, It's not a hard sell.
That's our offering too plus a highlights trailer delivered online within one week. I think the 20-30 minute short form plus highlights trailer is really important for consumption today on computers & phones.

We just took a booking for a very large wedding & the father of the bride who is paying us very handsomely has sent me the 3xDVD package that they got for the eldest daughter's wedding to give us an idea of what they are expecting. He does understand that as we mainly shoot with DSLRs that we don't provide CCTV security camera coverage like that but with a locked off camcorder or two we will drop it all on the timeline then synch it up & take out all the wobbly & out of focus bits then render it out & deliver on as many disks as necessary. I can appreciate that nobody is going to want to sit down & watch this bore-athon more than once today but with an eye to history in 10, 20, 30+ years time it will be a blast for kids to see great-grandfather & a whole generation by then deceased dancing away. I'm all for giving the customer what they want & charging accordingly so we don't get too precious about our art with a capital 'A'.
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Old January 12th, 2012, 09:49 AM   #13
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Re: Are you thinking of moving to short form? What are your concerns?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny O'Neill View Post
Deleted, people were going off topic.
Danny it's a pity that you don't want to play any more & have taken your ball home but it really is very poor forum etiquette to delete your replies out of a thread. Chris rules this forum with a firm grip so if it ever gets out of hand it gets stomped on but just because you didn't like the responses there is no reason to delete what you wrote. Perhaps Chris should consider implementing the feature in VBulletin that allows you a fixed period of time e.g. an hour to correct any spelling mistakes before fixing responses so they cannot be edited further.
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Old January 13th, 2012, 08:45 AM   #14
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Re: Are you thinking of moving to short form? What are your concerns?

Hi Nigel

Reading this thread and others where you read 3 posts and suddenly the next 3 are deleted doesn't make for intelligent reading at all. By all means edit out typos but unless you have insulted someone in the heat of an argument the post should really stay otherwise Chris should delete the entire topic as with deleted posts it doesn't make sense any more!!

All posts go off topic but usually come back again!! I guess in this case I shouldn't ask you how your AR drone is coming on otherwise I will be way off topic!!

Just for interest I do long form as my brides want the whole ceremony and all the speeches..if they ask me for a shortform DVD then they get a shortened version of the ceremony and a few events probably max 20 minutes BUT I still film everything...IMHO if you want short form then hire the videographer just for the prep and ceremony and maybe a quick photoshoot only. If that's what you guys call short form then that's what I do and call the package 'ceremony only' ... do you still attend the reception to the end even if the bride wants a short form video???

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Old January 13th, 2012, 12:02 PM   #15
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Re: Are you thinking of moving to short form? What are your concerns?

to me short form has always been a shortened version. Not necessarily a highlits version but shorter than the doco 2 hour version. Mine, when I do them anymore, run about 30 minuts.
A general breakdown is; Prep, about 2-3 minutes, Preceremony (includes B footage of venue) about 1 to 2 minutes. Both of these are set to music. 2 different chapters, 2 different peices of music. The ceremony runs about 8 to 12 minutes depending on the flow. I start with the bride coming down the aisle, the officiant giving a shrt welcome, the readers (shortened) the vows, rings, unity candle or sand ceremony (either of these events are shortend slightly) the flowers to the Virgin MAry (if it's a Catholic ceremony) the pronouncement of marriage, the kis and the B&G only recessional. Now I'm at 17 minutes. I do a bit of the post ceremony formals since I have a couple of set shots that I want included, B footage of the reception venue and cocktail hour. This peices is about 3 to 4 minutes. The reception is B&G entry only, shortend toasts, blessing, cake cutting (both shortened) 1st dance, F-D dance, M-S dance a few minutes of open dance, Garter and Bouquet if it's done before I leave which in 99% of the cases it is, I do a setup goodbye of the B&G for the ending and I usually get that all in 10 to 15 minutes.
Everyone is different of course and I've had a couple run up to 45 minutes but I've had a few run 25.
I try to tell the story in 1 bowl of popcorn form. I don't just hack away and again it's not a music video style highlight. It's the wedding. Short, sweet and to the point.
HOWEVER, it takes far longer to edit than the long form doc style of course so it also costs the client more. I still shoot as though I'm shooting doc style because I have a rule (I've actually got a bunch of them but this one is top of my head) I can not edit what I do not have so I shoot everything and work it out in the edit.
I got bored with long form many years ago-those 3 and 4 hour VHS tapes were killing me. So to kep myself from going nuts (or nutsier) I decided to try something different. Short form. I did both for a while and the clients all seemed to like the short version better. When DVD became the norm for delivery, I still continued to do short form but honestly over the last few years I have gotten away from it. First there have been fewer requests and 2nd I have a hard time sitting in front of the edit machines for hours at a time perfecting a short form piece. Not to mention, I do enough corporate work that needs to be turned quick (so I can get paid) and the client needs it now that I jsut really don't have the time to sit there with it when I can produce 2 long form doc styls in less time than it takes to do 1 short form.
Don't get me wrong, I do love well done short form stuff but it's just not a big seller for me anymore so I did wht I had to do. I changed with the times.
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