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Old June 5th, 2012, 05:38 AM   #16
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Re: Is converging media capture causing videographers problems

Hi George

I totally realise your point ..the only thing I was pointing out is that if you have a unique product then the bride won't even bother with getting others to shoot extra video.

Yep, it happens to all of us and it will continue...it's going to get a bit crowded when you have the videographer, assistant, photog and photogs video assistant!!!

The real answer is 3 GoPros at roof height and CCTV shoot the wedding..while you sit outside and relax and let the rest squabble over space!! My GoPro has got me out of quite a few situations when there were just too many people to get a clear shot!!! I still, of course do a two camera shoot as well!!!

Chris
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Old June 5th, 2012, 06:18 AM   #17
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Re: Is converging media capture causing videographers problems

Chris.

I don't think that it's brides that are seeking extra cover I believe that the photographers are just offering it as it seems like extra value with little additional cost to them. That's not a real problem to me, in fact I have shot a couple of 'hybrid' stills/video DVDs myself using a GH2 just shooting the audio parts, i.e ceremony, speeches and first dance as video and the rest as stills and then in AE produce a video slideshow. I point out that I was booked to do that, not alongside, or in addition to, any other operator.

The worry I've got is when there are two operators on the day aiming to get the same aspects on video, how long before the 'togs start insisting on prime position in the church, or mic'ing the groom because they've promised to supply video as well.
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Old June 5th, 2012, 09:13 AM   #18
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Re: Is converging media capture causing videographers problems

Hi George

I guess all you can do is write it into your contract ..I think mine says that I'm the exclusive videographer for the event...(more legal than that..but you get the idea)

HOWEVER I verbally go thru the terms and conditions with the couple and mention I have the exclusive rights to do the shoot...maybe you need to explain that in layman terms ie: "that means that means your photographer is NOT allowed to shoot any video for you..even for free as he will get in my way and ruin your wedding video" I normally tell them that the guests are welcome to use camcorders from the pews or guest tables. We don't shoot stills over the photogs shoulder so he/she shouldn't be shooting video over ours....much the same as the usual sign in stops that deal in cash transactions "DON'T ASK FOR CREDIT ...WE ARE A SHOP NOT A BANK"

We do have one video lady here who is quite explicit in her contract ..something like "If I think my equipment is in danger of being damaged I have the right to pack up and go home" .....Maybe if one is really frustrated ..have the same clause..."We reserve the right to pack up and leave if the photographer starts shooting video"

I think educating the couple and if the photog is already booked get them to convey the message that he/she is not permitted to shoot any video..only stills.

Chris
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Old June 5th, 2012, 09:35 AM   #19
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Re: Is converging media capture causing videographers problems

Chris, at the risk of labouring this now, how would you deal with it on the day as in my case last weekend. I had no knowledge that the photographer would be shooting video until I saw his Zoom DVR on a tripod in front of the couple at the altar just as the ceremony started; he'd sneakily dropped it there just as the bride came into church. Even with the exclusivity clause written into the contract would you be happy to stop proceedings and confront the photographer? I did speak with him after the ceremony when we were eating together, that was when he told me that he had promised them, a 'slideshow' with their ceremony audio as the soundtrack. He didn't tell me he was about to do the same thing during the speeches, i.e. place his Zoom on the table directly in front of the bride's father, I suspect his second camera was locked-off shooting video.
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Old June 5th, 2012, 11:04 AM   #20
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Re: Is converging media capture causing videographers problems

George,
if they're paying me $3k to do what I do, I frankly don't care what the photog does. its just going to fall flat in comparison, and if it doesn't fall flat, then I need to step up my game. basic market dynamics.
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Old June 5th, 2012, 11:38 AM   #21
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Re: Is converging media capture causing videographers problems

Bill, I was thinking the same thing...If I'm at a wedding, I've already won the battle with the photographer who is shooting video. They booked me for my product because my samples, or a friend's video spoke to them and they just couldn't go without one at their own wedding. If my product is not more impressive than the photographer's, then you are right, I need to step up my game.
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Old June 5th, 2012, 11:48 AM   #22
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Re: Is converging media capture causing videographers problems

Hi Bill/Katie I think we are arguing a different point here.


I think that the gist of my point may have been misunderstood.
It's not the value of my product that I'm concerned about, either as it stands alone or in comparison to any video that a photographer might bring them, albeit that I'm not within sight of your price range. It's the situation that I find on the day. At the moment it's just one occurrence that has caused me to voice this, but I'm interested in how others might deal with a similar situation should it occur.
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Old June 5th, 2012, 12:39 PM   #23
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Re: Is converging media capture causing videographers problems

George,
Tell me what you mean by "not within sight of your price range" If I found this on the wedding day, I would roll with it and get the best stuff I could with the idea that this photog is attempting to do something that will, in the end, just look silly and eventually they'll quit.
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Old June 5th, 2012, 01:52 PM   #24
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Re: Is converging media capture causing videographers problems

Hi George...I see your point, yes it is different from what I was getting at. On your point, I can totally agree that I would not want a photographer taking my prime video spot...although even with photographers doing stills only, it seems like position and getting in each others' way is already a concern. (Cue nightmare photographer stories) We have been lucky thus far, knock on wood, and have almost always worked with great photographers who look out for us, as we do them. If more photographers start doing video, they would need double the "good spots"...one for photo and one for video, leaving very little room for us.

I haven't had the situation yet, at least to my knowledge, where a photographer is doing video too. We've had a couple photographers admit to us that they were going to test the video waters, and turned back quickly once they realized how different, and how much work it was. Until then, if we do run into a situation, I guess we'll just have to figure out how to adapt...just put it in with one of the millions of other wrenches that can be thrown into our wedding days.
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Old June 5th, 2012, 05:42 PM   #25
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Re: Is converging media capture causing videographers problems

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Grant View Post
George,
if they're paying me $3k to do what I do, I frankly don't care what the photog does. its just going to fall flat in comparison, and if it doesn't fall flat, then I need to step up my game. basic market dynamics.
Bill
I agree. Photog can't beat me with a couple cams and a zoom, and trying to do his primary job at the same time. It just can't scale up to what an experienced video crew can do. And just because they try doesn't mean they succeed.
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Old June 5th, 2012, 07:20 PM   #26
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Re: Is converging media capture causing videographers problems

I always get to the Church before the photog anyway so I have the choice of spot..My only instance of this situation had the photogs assistant way behind me without any mics near the groom so it wasn't an issue.

If I found that a photog was shooting video and I had explained my contract to the bride, sure, I would just continue but I would mention to the bride (at a convenient time) that his actions are a contract violation so if his gear or assistant appears in my video she has to accept it....I don't think it's worth spoiling her day by fighting but definately worth making her aware of it and, as a true professional, you will continue on regardless!

Chris
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Old June 6th, 2012, 11:39 AM   #27
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Re: Is converging media capture causing videographers problems

When I know I'm going to work with a photographer I've never worked with in the past, I personally request a meeting with my couples and their photographer prior to the wedding just to make sure everyone's on the same page and that we have a good understanding of how each party works. It's almost a mandatory meeting in my case.

My couples and their photographer are normally very happy with the fact that I'm taking this initiative. It allows everyone to get along and develop a good chemistry before the event. And most importantly, it allows us to avoid any unexpected surprises on the day of. We all end up enjoying our work experience together and I've made tons of good photographer friends. And guess which name comes to their mind when their future clients ask them if they know any good video guy? =)
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Old June 6th, 2012, 08:04 PM   #28
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Re: Is converging media capture causing videographers problems

Hi Long

That, of course, is ideal but over here the photographer never attends even the rehearsal !! To get a photog to come over to see the bride "just to meet the videographer" ain't going to happen here!!! Most that I work with here have poor, if any communication skills and I have had bride's trying to contact the photog on the actual big day because he hasn't pitched up yet!!! The best I can ever manage is a quick intro and some rules discussion just before the bride arrives.

Chris
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Old June 7th, 2012, 10:08 AM   #29
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Re: Is converging media capture causing videographers problems

Hi Chris,

I wouldn't know about your area so I guess there are definitely challenges over there. I am simply sharing what I do and throwing ideas in hopes that someone out there would probably find it useful and adapt it to their own situation.

In my case, I have made it my personal goal to set my expectations very high. Although I am nowhere near an award-winning wedding filmmaker, I do make it my goal to give my best shot at every wedding and try to aim for perfection. Now while I know I still have a very long way to go until I can achieve that, I think that by simply setting that as a goal and having that mentality, it has forced myself to try doing whatever it takes to get the best out of a situation. This means that I often need to go out of my way and make the extra effort to push my own limits and defy things that used to stop me from doing my job properly.

For example, I used to only have 1 consultation with my clients to explain what my packages include, then another one to sign the contract and I would finally show up at the wedding to cover what I need to cover, then go home and work on the edit. I then realized that this practice would leave way too much room for unexpected surprises to happen, leading me to not get the best shots as I would spend more time trying to react and adapt rather than anticipate and plan before I shoot.

To give myself a better chance at doing a better job during the shoot, I decided to spend more time with my couples before their wedding. It has allowed me to show up better prepared and I would be in better control of the situation.

I used to think that it was a waste of my own time, that brides in my market don't care about spending extra time with me before the event, that they are too busy, giving myself every excuse that it wasn't going to help my work. But all it took was a bit of determination and forcing myself to do what it takes to make it happen. When I meet my clients during our first consultation, I will tell them straight up what they are getting themselves into if they seek my services. The experience they are going to have with me is nothing like the typical vendor-client relationship. I will become their friend, their advisor, I would a lot of the time even become their wedding planner. It's not uncommon for me to just call them out for a drink or dinner and chat about different things that are sometimes not even related to their wedding. Obviously, I will also share my passion for filmmaking with them and they will get very excited about the project.

Because I spend more time with my couples before their wedding, they end up treating me as a good friend, they are more comfortable with me around, they also understand my work better and know what it takes to get better results for their video so they would do things that will allow me to do my job better and get better coverage. The good relationship I have with my clients goes a very, very long way.

Now obviously, those meetings aren't going to improve my technical skills and allow my work to become exceptionally better. But they do help me a lot. And I just simply tell myself that every little step I can take to get a higher chance of doing a better job is a good step towards success. Spending that extra time and working on a better relationship with my clients is just one of the many things I can do.
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Old July 10th, 2012, 02:06 AM   #30
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Re: Is converging media capture causing videographers problems

Just going back to my opening point. It seems from reading other threads that I'm not the only one who is experiencing photographers shooting video along with their stills, in fact one of our regular contributors to this forum has given much guidance to the way he does it.

Over recent years there's been a move from documentary towards cinematic form of video and in the stills world a move from printed photos to disc based presentation. Do you see a day when still and moving image making as one will become the accepted form of wedding day memories. Just one disc (or media file); a hybrid product of still, moving, audio clips and backing tracks all in one production.

With the ever increasing improvements in image quality obtainable from video cameras maybe it could be the videographer - or cinematographer - that could steel a march having many tens of thousands images to grab. I know of one videographer who gives a disc album of around 100 stills with his DVDs.
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