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Shooting non-repeatable events: weddings, recitals, plays, performances...


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Old November 21st, 2012, 09:57 AM   #16
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Re: Will the new Sony work as a run 'n wedding camera?

Chris, I think you are looking at it wrong. It's not about people being pixel peepers or "Tech Heads" when critisizing moire and aliasing from large sensor cameras. Similarily, a camera with insufficient low light won't bring home good stuff from a reception and it's not to do with pixel peeping.

It's a matter of how much of the stuff you bring home is usable. That percentage is affected by moire and aliasing from large sensor cameras and other factors. Each camera's abilities combined with your skill at operating the camera along with the subjects you are shooting will determine that percentage.

Form factor also contributes to whether footage is a keeper. I've shot with Handycams and DSLRs since 2008 and can't stand their handheld footage compared to what I was able to do with a camera on my shoulder. YMMV.

@Don: Are saying the single chip Sony CX550's are better in lowlight than the 3x1/3" CCDs of the HM700?
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Old November 21st, 2012, 09:58 AM   #17
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Re: Will the new Sony work as a run 'n wedding camera?

Chris in answer to your remark about Sony (or any mfgr) releasing a camera that produced a truely bad image, I would tend to agree with you. I don't think Sony or anyone else, would do that. It could really kill their market. However as was said, there is no one perfect camera and what might be right for George wouldn't be right for me. I have always loved the compact full size form factor, like the JVCs and the Sony NEX50 does look like it could be the right stuff with a few exceptions. first off, being about 40% less than a new JVCHM710 is a turn on. Second, I already have all the battery power I'd need to power that camera so big saving there. Thirdly, I can always turn on more light at a reception and since I have 2 of the CN160s on remotes, a 312AS that will run for hours and soon to have the 5080 that you so smartly turned me on to, PLUS my LP Micro AND my trusty old AB Ultralight, I could light up pretty much any venue without having to turn to my big old tungsten softbox kit. The negatives to me are 1) figuring out a proper way to hang my AT1821 receiver and 2) the lack of switchable NDs. As was said before, in run and gun going from inside to outside and back in a short time slot really calls for switchable ND at least for me.
George, I agree with your statement of the lowlight capability of the HM7XX cameras. I agree, they're not as good as say the Sony PD series but then how many true vidcams are but all in all, that camera series has most everything I would be looking for so it's up there on the list.
Chris like you, I'd like to see some footage in untouched form from a NEX-EA50 before I were to make a decision but as I said before, some of the work I'm working on getting is also playing into the decision.
Man I'm getting too old to have my head clogged with all this stuff. Sometimes I yearn for the old days. Sometimes! ;-)
As for my getting an NEX-EA50 and being a crash test dummy, I did approach my boss (the wifey) about this and she gave me "THE LOOK". I think we all know what that means so I'll sit and wait before I make my decision and MAYBE I'll win the big lottery and it'll all be a moot point! (sure and maybe I get to be 6'5" and look like Brad Pitt-you know just to please my wife) lol!
Les, No not at all. I don't know if they are or not, I just mentioned the fact that it appears the sensor in the NEX-EA50 is the same as the sensor in the NEX5 still camera that I've seen advertised. I wouldn't say it's better at anything untilo
I could compare both handling and footage.
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Old November 21st, 2012, 12:05 PM   #18
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Re: Will the new Sony work as a run 'n wedding camera?

The EA50 must be a DSLR after all. Zacuto has a rig for it:
https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.n...64265680_n.jpg
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Old November 21st, 2012, 12:32 PM   #19
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Re: Will the new Sony work as a run 'n wedding camera?

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Originally Posted by Les Wilson View Post

@Don: Are saying the single chip Sony CX550's are better in lowlight than the 3x1/3" CCDs of the HM700?
Les it was me who made that comparison, and yes I own and use both and find that in low ambient light the CX550 well out performs the HM700.
I'm off system at the moment but when I get back I'll grab a couple of screen shots and post them.
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Old November 21st, 2012, 05:21 PM   #20
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Re: Will the new Sony work as a run 'n wedding camera?

Hi Les

Point taken exactly but I was simply mentioning that compared to, especially brides, we are super critical of not only our own work but also the camera performance. I'm sure you have had bad shoot days and so have I but I did a wedding where everything went wrong..terrible backlighting at the ceremony with half the wedding party in the sun and half in the deep shade, and so on and the footage on preview at home didn't make me a happy chappy at all...it was just a bad shoot with poor amateur results!! I edited as best I could and gingerly handed it over to the bride and mother...This woman was absolutely thrilled with the DVD and has over the years sung my praises and given me subsequent refferals ...I'm still scratching my head as to why BUT maybe I expect better from cameras and myself???

I guess someone will shoot a wedding with the EA50 so we can see....I'm have been a pansonic person for 20 years but they seem to have dropped the SM except in DVCPRO hence the look at Sony.

BTW: Don ??? To us you look like Brat Pitt already so quit worrying. We like you just the way you are!

There is actually a big thread right here on guys using handicams at weddings and getting awesome results from them. Noa Put from Belgium is a small camera user at weddings along with his DSLR's and reports amazing results.

Shucks maybe the answer is to rig 3 handicams and 3 GoPros all on remotes and sit down on the job with a control box on your lap???

Chris
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Old November 22nd, 2012, 02:27 AM   #21
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Re: Will the new Sony work as a run 'n wedding camera?

Chris I couldn't agree more - I have shot weddings in appalling light conditions, rainy days where all the guests are huddled in a dark bar feeling miserable, weddings that are completely unorganized with things happening at the wrong time so you don't get the 'must have' shots - edited to the best of my ability........and the couples love the DVD!!!!!

It's because we strive to produce the best we can (and we probably compare ourselves to the best) that we get frustrated when we are let down by the event itself - rather than our own shortcomings.

Traditional video cameras for me so far (Z1/FX-1/HVR-A1E) and I have yet to have an unhappy customer in 5 years. I am going to pention off the Z1 next year however for a camera that performs in low light better - won't be a DSLR though for me

Pete
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Old November 22nd, 2012, 05:43 AM   #22
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Re: Will the new Sony work as a run 'n wedding camera?

Hi Pete

Doesn't seem I am impressed either!! I wonder how the guys with big sensor DSLR's cope with moire and aliasing??? AFAIK the only DSLR to totally solve the problem is the Canon 5DIII (according to Nigel)

Do other DSLR shooters just live with it or work around it???

There isn't much out there that impresses me ..The new Pansonic AC-90 however produces amazing images and almost no video noise even at 30db gain!!

Chris
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Old November 22nd, 2012, 06:09 AM   #23
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Re: Will the new Sony work as a run 'n wedding camera?

Chris thanks for the tip - I've always been a Sony guy but I'll look into the AC-90 - has XLRs which is good also - I'll need to have a play - I suspect the focus ring might be of the type in my A1E though (some sort of servo focus I think) which I don't like - the price is favorable too :)
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Old November 22nd, 2012, 07:19 AM   #24
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Re: Will the new Sony work as a run 'n wedding camera?

Hi Pete

The Panny cameras lens rings are not connnected to the servo motor at all!! The one really neat thing is that you can use autofocus to get into the ball park and also trim with the focus ring, even in full auto...the same goes for iris...you can keep the camera in auto iris and then use the ring to add a still camera style positive or negative EV value to the image. Very useful if you have just a tad too much backlighting and need to adjust the iris.

The gain is truely amazing...the image is razor sharp at 24db ..dunno how they do it as my HMC's are decidedly grainy after 18db ..there is virually no noise at 30db but the image goes a little soft...On my current cams I use no more than 15db as grain appears after that!!

Chris
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Old November 22nd, 2012, 08:28 AM   #25
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Re: Will the new Sony work as a run 'n wedding camera?

You're selling it to me Chris - I'm thinking of a new purchase early next year and I think this is def a contender - going to check out some footage now
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Old November 22nd, 2012, 08:31 AM   #26
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Re: Will the new Sony work as a run 'n wedding camera?

Hi Peter

There is a pile of footage and reviews on the DVX forum as Barry Green is writing the book on the camera..he has a VERY comprehensive review there but lots of others have posted videos too!! You need to look on both the Panasonic HMC and AC130/160 forums as they are shared on both.

Chris
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Old November 22nd, 2012, 11:30 PM   #27
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Re: Will the new Sony work as a run 'n wedding camera?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Harding View Post
I wonder how the guys with big sensor DSLR's cope with moire and aliasing??? AFAIK the only DSLR to totally solve the problem is the Canon 5DIII (according to Nigel)

Do other DSLR shooters just live with it or work around it???
On MkIIs, I think the basic answer, apart from turning your sharpness down to minimise it, is to just suck it up and live with it! Do clients notice? I'm sceptical they do. Or if they do, whether they care. I've had rainbow patterns across brides' veils, and they've never complained... Maybe they even liked it.

There's a filter available from Mosaic Engineering that solves aliasing for the MkII and other cameras. Works beautifully, but it's a PITA to use under event conditions. $400 sitting in a box on my shelf, unused. With filter installed, every time you touch the zoom, the image goes out of focus. Not sure why. Something to do with back focus not working properly.

Eg, when I'm not 100% sure about focus, I sometimes zoom out a little to give myself more depth of field --but with filter installed, everything just goes out of focus even more...
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Old November 23rd, 2012, 01:38 AM   #28
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Re: Will the new Sony work as a run 'n wedding camera?

Hi Adrian

I am told by Nigel Barker than Canon solved the moire problem completely on the Mark III 5D ...there is your answer! Sell the 5DII and buy a III and no more moire....It sucks a bit that even something like a veil can cause it. I've had it I think once when the bride was standing next to a huge face brick wall and my then 3 x CCD camera did display some minor moire.

Hmmm maybe brides think that's how it's supposed to look???

Chris
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Old November 23rd, 2012, 03:49 AM   #29
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Re: Will the new Sony work as a run 'n wedding camera?

I am sure that we obsess about image quality far more than our clients. They don't notice aliasing & they accept moire as just one of those things that happens with video as they see it on the striped shirts of newsreaders on the TV. It's not a terrible defect like something being out of focus or audio that is distorted. Even with the 5D2 it's not an awful problem it just happens sometimes on some brickwork or roof tiles you will see this shimmering effect. I doubt that the new Sony has awful moire & aliasing as Sony wouldn't have brought it to market if it were so terrible that lay people noticed.
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Old November 23rd, 2012, 04:01 AM   #30
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Re: Will the new Sony work as a run 'n wedding camera?

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Originally Posted by Chris Harding View Post
The Panny cameras lens rings are not connnected to the servo motor at all!!
Chris,

I'm following the AC-90 with interest, as a second camera (hurrah, it's not released in the UK until January.... Grrr). I'm confused by your comment above.

The AC130 and AC160 have direct, mechanical control of the zoom and focus. From everything I've read, the AC-90 has "fly by wire", with the zoom and focus rings controlling the lens using motors (aka servos). Am I missing something here?
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