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Shooting non-repeatable events: weddings, recitals, plays, performances...


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Old December 23rd, 2012, 12:44 PM   #1
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CreativeLive Wedding Cinematography Course

I just wanted to give a shoutout to Rob and Vanessa who did a 3 day Wedding Cinematography course using DSLR's. I've gone through some of the videos, and I must say, these guys ROCK!! They go through gear selection, lenses, and the best part is, they actually show how they capture during a live wedding event! There's also post production editing lessons that I havent quite gotten to yet.
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Old December 24th, 2012, 06:00 PM   #2
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Re: CreativeLive Wedding Cinematography Course

I watched it too, and did enjoy seeing how he did things.

Shame we NEVER EVER get a first look. It just doesn't happen here and is considered the height of 'bad luck'.

Now if I could only figure out how to get brides around here to spend as much as he seems to be getting for the job..... maybe I'd take a few more crew too :)

< sigh >
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Old December 30th, 2012, 10:24 PM   #3
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Re: CreativeLive Wedding Cinematography Course

Yep - watching it now. Very interesting indeed. He's got a heap of energy hasn't he?

I'm extracting all sorts of good hints, but as a solo video shooter, I am starting to feel really really sorry for DSLR shooters. So much to think about with multiple cameras, multiple lense, assistants and crew, sliders, audio... man you guys make a lot of work for yourselves...
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Old December 31st, 2012, 08:05 AM   #4
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Re: CreativeLive Wedding Cinematography Course

Well I've just watched the trailer and might sign up for it as I'm always looking at ways to raise my game (especially now I've recently acquired my 5D) but to claim the average is about £2,500 and potentially raise it to about £5,500 per wedding is a little off IMO - especially in the UK and in the current climate!

Their stuff looks lovely but how achievable is a lot of it? - I did 2 weddings last week where there was like an hour between the ceremony ending and the wedding breakfast - and the photog hogged all that!, plus the appalling weather confined the entire wedding indoors - as a solo shooter I simply don't have time to set up shots like like - how I would love to though! - I have a Glidetrack and a Merlin Stedicam that hardly see the light of day as there simply is time to set them up! they get used for smaller projects, not weddings

I suppose I'd rather keep my prices keen and work more, than hire people, buy more kit, be more elaborate and bag fewer weddings - IMO people over here are wanting to pay less, not more.
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Old December 31st, 2012, 09:56 AM   #5
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Re: CreativeLive Wedding Cinematography Course

I've been watching this over the last few days and am very pleased with what I've seen so far. This guy seems to know his stuff. I've picked up one awesome marketing tool already and really like his approach. Plus he's shooting with 5D mkIIs which means that a lot of his struggle in low light doesn't apply to me :) Very enjoyable so far. Solo shooters should understand that help is out there and can seriously raise your game and allow you to make better films, which can allow you to make more money, etc. Hire editors as well. TV stations are laying off editors left and right. They can be trained to do this, and they welcome the work with enthusiasm. Price is almost always negotiable. Do it!
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Old January 1st, 2013, 12:18 AM   #6
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Re: CreativeLive Wedding Cinematography Course

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Their stuff looks lovely but how achievable is a lot of it?
I think it's very market dependant.

He's obviously a creative genius with bundles of energy - who, after starting in the wedding video industry, very quickly discovered that most weddings are actually quite tedious and mundane. Leveraging the fact that most Americans (and this is a HUGE generalisation) tend to be a little more extroverted, he’s targeted really high-end clientele who are happy to spend time on their wedding day ‘re-creating’ (read FAKING) a lot of scenes to produce very cinematic films with a brilliantly strong story.

This simply wouldn’t work in my market in New Zealand for a lot of reasons. The average bride here is a little more chilled out and less willing to ‘reveal her soul to the world’ to create something on this level. Many would not have the budget for anything like a US$9500 video – that would be the average budget of an entire wedding here! If you attempted to ask a groom to remove and button up his waist-coast 3 times just so you could have 3 different angles he would tell you to **** off. We’re just not that into ourselves. (There is no New Zealand equivalent to Jerry Springer on TV)

I can imagine most weddings in the UK being similar. Not great weather, brides who are a little more reserved with their emotions, tighter budgets etc.

Don’t get me wrong – he’s got some fantastic ideas and I’m still loving his work and picking up some great tips, but I’m watching the mock ‘first-look’ lessons he’s going through now with my jaw wide open thinking... “Are you freaking kidding me? Go shoot a movie or something and let these people just get married already!”
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Old January 1st, 2013, 07:34 AM   #7
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Re: CreativeLive Wedding Cinematography Course

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Originally Posted by Peter Rush View Post
Well I've just watched the trailer and might sign up for it as I'm always looking at ways to raise my game (especially now I've recently acquired my 5D) but to claim the average is about £2,500 and potentially raise it to about £5,500 per wedding is a little off IMO - especially in the UK and in the current climate!
There aren't many people in Yorkshire willing to pay this for a wedding film. The most I've managed in the last couple of years was £1850 but those inquiries have mostly dried up now most seem to be looking for a LOT cheaper.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Rush View Post
Their stuff looks lovely but how achievable is a lot of it?
It's very achievable in the right conditions, which include cooperative wedding party members, sufficient space (you can't get the maid-of-honour or bride to do the writing/reading in a 12x10 room where 8 other people are also getting ready!) and clear speakers with something to say in the speeches. Not the standard Google stuff (I'm sure we've all heard over and over). We also tend to get the same old vows & 1 corinthians 13 instead of the personal vows they seem to get on Rob's films.

Vicars speaking too quickly (and over the top of B&G) during vows and rings makes it really hard to separate that audio and of course kids crying in the background never helps either!

Actually, the more expensive weddings turned out to be both easier to shoot and to edit. Things flowed better, better material to use, more time & space when filming etc. Cheap weddings are totally different. Different venues, different people, different expectations and totally different budgets!

So, put us in the weddings that Rob is doing, absolutely achievable. Put Rob at a wedding where people are getting ready in tiny back street houses, married in a registry office and then on to a pub in cold rainy weather and I think you'll find Rob struggles too.

That's why he needs to stay above a certain price point, and there are too few of those price point weddings around here to make a living out of. At least in today's climate.
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Old January 1st, 2013, 07:48 AM   #8
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Re: CreativeLive Wedding Cinematography Course

Hi Dave

Much the same my end too. It's only practical rather than achievable if the market supports it. I have read on this very forum about videographers arriving at receptions and the car park is a mass of Ferrari's and Lamborginis... exclusive money-is-no-object weddings ... In real life I'm sure that really does happen in Hollywood and Daddy just shells out unlimited finance.
Sheesh, it's hard enough to convince the bride to have the prep video done and she is stalling cos her budget for video was only $1000!!

I'm sure that even in Perth the super rich mining magnates daughters have a wedding in that calibre but snaring one or two a year isn't going to pay the bills throughout the year so we end up doing much the same as you.

Despite the beautiful creativity the bottom line still remains that we are running a business and we need to make a profit and for me that means shooting solo with an average package cost of around $1500 which certainly doesn't allow any profit if we get into multiple shooters and weeks of edit time.

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Old January 1st, 2013, 10:00 AM   #9
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Re: CreativeLive Wedding Cinematography Course

You guys seem to be very convinced of your limitations. I'm not so sure. If your work is compelling enough I don't think there's as much limitation as you think.
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Old January 1st, 2013, 05:35 PM   #10
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Re: CreativeLive Wedding Cinematography Course

Hi Bill

Absolutely not the case at all. It's simply a market limitation and we have a fairly booming enconomy compared to some places. Sure, there are one or two brides a year who have money to burn but most are currently pretty careful with the pennies. Anyone that wouldn't want to shoot and wedding for $10K would be a total idiot but if the market isn't there it simply cannot be created. There are videographers who work in rural communities with lower populations and income potential than the big cities.

Much the same as you wouldn't setup a franchise in a tiny rural low income town with Rolls Royce ... sure, the town may have a few rich dudes who might buy your cars but the general population could never afford it so it would be a poor marketing decision.

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Old January 1st, 2013, 06:11 PM   #11
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Re: CreativeLive Wedding Cinematography Course

Like I said. You sound pretty convinced. So therefore it will be so for you. I have experienced something different.
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Old January 1st, 2013, 06:56 PM   #12
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Re: CreativeLive Wedding Cinematography Course

Hi Bill

My own abilities, gear and creativeness.. No .. I have the skills plus the availabilty of two good 2nd shooters and a 4 cam setup so doing a high end wedding from my side is quite feasible. However my current market situation, yes I am convinced that it's not able to sustain a steady flow of $10K wedding packages so I have no option but to do a whole bunch of lower wedding packages to make a living.

Would I like to be able to do just 10 x $10K weddings a year?....right on...that would be absolutely perfect BUT it ain't gonna happen here...maybe in the USA or Canada but not in my market. I have to make a living so I have to settle for what the market wants ... I'd like to wave a magic wand and give all my brides a 100K budget but $15K for the entire wedding is closer to what they can afford. Even photogs here have started to charge less than 10 years ago ...Around 2000 it was quite typical for a photog to charge $4K for a shoot only nowdays they charge just 25% of that ..or they don't make a living.

If you have a magic idea that would trawl in the big spenders then I'm all ears!!! I would much rather work my butt off for $5K rather than for $2K ...then again, who wouldn't??

Our East Coast and the big cities like Sydney are different...high end there is a lot more realistic!

Chris
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Old January 1st, 2013, 07:27 PM   #13
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Re: CreativeLive Wedding Cinematography Course

I have absolutely no doubt that your skills and experience are such that you could produce anything you like. I also imagine that Perth is larger than Columbia SC usa... pm me if you'd like to talk about it.
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Old January 1st, 2013, 08:04 PM   #14
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Re: CreativeLive Wedding Cinematography Course

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Originally Posted by John Knight View Post
Yep - watching it now. Very interesting indeed. He's got a heap of energy hasn't he?
Where is this video everyone's talking about? Or link? Would love to see.
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Old January 1st, 2013, 09:16 PM   #15
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Re: CreativeLive Wedding Cinematography Course

It's a 3-day course... check out some previews here:

Wedding Cinematography with Rob and Vanessa | creativeLIVE
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