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Shooting non-repeatable events: weddings, recitals, plays, performances...


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Old January 9th, 2013, 04:06 AM   #1
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Any requests for 3D?

Blu-ray goes hand-in-hand with DVD in my market but has anyone had any requests for 3D? I am really hoping that has died a death for us in the event game.

It will be 4k next...
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Old January 9th, 2013, 04:24 AM   #2
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Re: Any requests for 3D?

I've had one request, but persuaded the client out of it.

Abraham Joffe, a Sydney videographer, shot possibly the first 3D wedding in the world on Panasonic AG-3DA1 cameras, rented from a company called Videocraft. He's got an interesting Goggleable article about it. Saying things like -- he often uses people's shoulders for framing, in his normal shooting style, but if you shoot this way in 3D, suddenly there's a disembodied shoulder floating in the air. So you have to learn to do some things differently.

I did make inquiries with Videocraft about the camera earlier this year. They no longer rent it. Why? Just wasn't popular enough...
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Old January 10th, 2013, 02:40 PM   #3
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Re: Any requests for 3D?

I have no desire to 'watch' 3D movies and even less to film and edit them.
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Old January 11th, 2013, 02:21 AM   #4
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Re: Any requests for 3D?

3D is great, unfortunately still a nightmare to edit, that is probably what makes people so reluctant to propose it. Most of videographer knows all about the theory of 3D, very few are really able to master it.
For customer, most of them do not even know it i possible.
Lot of people today have flat screen 3d capable, but most of them also skip on purchasing the glasses, because they were probably too expensive to buy for all family.
If you have all the required equipement to shoot and edit 3D, it is not different that shooting 2D.
in fact you can shoot 3D, discard one side and use the video to edit 2D.

I shot everything in 3D, and just mention that it is available on request. Lots of people say "Cool" but almost nobody choose to get it.
3D still a niche market and probably will stay until 4K really exist at consumer lever , because with a 4k camera, you can easily make a lens that shoot 3d side by side, so no need for a dedicated camera.
I think 4k will save 3d, but for now, it is almost dead again.
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Old January 11th, 2013, 06:44 AM   #5
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Re: Any requests for 3D?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Partington View Post
I have no desire to 'watch' 3D movies and even less to film and edit them.
I'd like to do it just for the challenge of learning something new, but I don't necessarily think that it would be beneficial to a wedding video.
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Old January 24th, 2013, 07:17 PM   #6
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Re: Any requests for 3D?

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Originally Posted by Giroud Francois View Post
I shot everything in 3D, and just mention that it is available on request. Lots of people say "Cool" but almost nobody choose to get it.
Wow, what camera do you shoot on?
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Old January 25th, 2013, 10:22 AM   #7
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Re: Any requests for 3D?

Nope, no requests for 3D here.

I'm still delivering everything in Standard Definition.

I've only delivered one wedding video in Blu-Ray format in the past 2 years. Everyone still wants SD here... or rather hasn't bought a BD player.
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Old January 25th, 2013, 11:11 AM   #8
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Re: Any requests for 3D?

i got a td10 , a nx3d1 and i plan to purchase a 2nd nx3d1
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Old February 1st, 2013, 07:03 PM   #9
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Re: Any requests for 3D?

I'm new on this forum, but have been shooting wedding videos since 1986.

Kyle's comment is interesting as I have also only been asked to provide one wedding on Bluray in the last 3 years out of about 100 weddings I have filmed in that time.

Coming back to the OP, I have had 3 x 3d wedding commissions since I started offering them in October 2011 and five for 3d photography. I have also filmed 9 or 10 weddings off my own back in 3d, just to improve my technique with weddings. I have been working with 3d for a few years, but 3d weddings need to be filmed as they happen, with little time to prepare cameras for individual clips, as I would in other 3d filming.

I usually use a pair of HD cams on a slide bar, using one of the cams for the usual 2d edit. The problem with twin rig filming is that it is a long slow process to edit, and it is necessary at the filming stage to be very aware of the requirements of 3d with every shot in addition to the normal filming considerations.

I purchased a JVC TD1 in December last year, to see whether a twin lens synched camera would make matters easier and used that alongside my normal 2d cam at a recent wedding. The small interaxial spacing of the lenses gave surprisingly good depth in the context of wedding filming, where most of the action is close to the camera. The small IA also gave less disparity adjustments at the editing stage and of course all takes were in sync. The editing time was massively reduced, making wedding 3d filming possibly financially viable.

Delivery system is also an interesting area, as those clients that had 3d ready tvs, surprisingly didn't have bluray players. I have found 3d bluray writing very time consuming and memory heavy, but have delivered all three commissions on AVCHD usb sticks. The picture quality had already been shown to the clients before they booked and they were all delighted with the finished results and quality. I also have a small 3d display running at wedding shows alongside my main display, which is a great draw and keeps people aware of what is possible.

I don't see any likelihood of 3d wedding filming gaining any real momentum until glasses free viewing becomes common place and affordable. Meanwhile, the small amount of income that it generates for me, pays for what is a very enjoyable hobby alongside my main income of conventional filming.

Roger
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Old February 1st, 2013, 08:51 PM   #10
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Re: Any requests for 3D?

Great post Roger and I agree. Glasses free 3D TV IS coming and once one player really starts pushing theirs, it'll open dem floodgates baby ...

Consumer 3D TV .. the latest.

Having that option with your wedding adv now, makes great sense, even if you team up with someone.
Go for it!

(Cheers) (Cheers) see no glasses.
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Old February 1st, 2013, 08:59 PM   #11
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Re: Any requests for 3D?

I find 2D filming challenging enough as it is! 3D scares me more than 4K. Hope those floodgates stay closed for a few years at least (and that it's at least a few more years before they want both 3D and 4K).

Roger, welcome to the forum. I'm new myself. Have enjoyed reading your posts, and I think you've got a lot to contribute.
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Old February 2nd, 2013, 06:58 AM   #12
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Re: Any requests for 3D?

Thanks Adrian and Alan for the welcome and I am delighted to have found this forum.

I suppose that because I have been working with 3d for some time it doesn't hold any particular fears for me. There are different things to understand both in filming and editing, and it is difficult to work quickly, but the wow factor for people when they see their own lives in 3d rather than some blockbuster movie, is very satisfying.

What concerns me more, is the headlong rush by many video professionals to get into 4k filming and editing. Unlike 3d which can be filmed with any type of camera from webcam to smartphone to full broadcast, 4K is a whole new ball game. It requires heavy investment in cameras, editing and viewing equipment and I just don't get why it is necessary! For those involved in production work aimed at cinema/theatre audiences, then resolution is king, but for the rest of the world?

TV is a prime example, there has been a marked reluctance to get involved with 3d, partly because cameramen, producers, directors and editors are largely untrained and inexperienced in it and partly because of the lack of standardisation. 4K though is a great excuse for technical bods to indulge their desire for higher and higher picture quality, whilst production crews etc all use the same skills that have been refined to perfection over decades - it's safe!

It has taken probably a decade for the general public to accept HD tvs as the norm even though practically all of my customers want their weddings on dvd, not realising or even being interested in the fact that the picture quality is way below HD. They even comment how great it looks on their new HD tv! With the exception of a few main broadcasters, most television transmissions seem to be compressed to a quality that is way below full HD and the trend for endless loop channels repeating old low res programmes is dominating the networks.

So apart from technological oneupmanship, who is actually going to gain from 4k if practically nobody can benefit from viewing the end product. We have reached the point where I genuinely doubt that most people watching a modern 1920x1080 HD tv showing high quality HD footage would see much difference watching the same thing on a 4k tv with 4k footage. There is only so much that the human eye can resolve, although I grant you that watching on a giant cinema screen will show a noticeable difference. How much footage that the usual pro and semi pro videographer will take is ever going to be viewed that way?

The resurgence of 3d offered something to the public and producer alike that was exciting, challenging and at times controversial, 4k in my opinion just offers a financial burden to most with gain only by those at the top of the tree. I'll be interested to see what the public take up is on 4k tvs after the huge let down on 3d.

Roger
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Old February 2nd, 2013, 07:58 AM   #13
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Re: Any requests for 3D?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Burnap View Post
Blu-ray goes hand-in-hand with DVD in my market but has anyone had any requests for 3D? I am really hoping that has died a death for us in the event game.

It will be 4k next...
There is usually only one group that is very exited with every new format that pops up and that is us videographers and we are also always the first adopters, for the actual client it takes several more years before they get used to it.
It's like when HDV became a 'standard in 2005/2006 yet in 2013 I am still delivering all my weddings on a regular dvd and about 10% on blu-ray. I do deliver the HD files separately as an option and those are usually being watched on a 720p screen laptop.

I knew from the start 3d would not be accepted by the general public, in my country not at least, there are plenty 3d tv's available but hardly enough content and if it is, you have to pay extra for it and that's what most don't want. Then you also have those ridiculous looking glasses that are very expensive as well if you have to buy that for every member of your family. For weddings I don't see any market for 3d either, unless you are happy to sell 1 a year or so, but that's not worth the investment and editing hassle.

For 4k also everyone (meaning we videographers) says it's the next "big" thing but this format will also take many years before it's incorporated into everyones livingroom and considered standard. I expect that for weddings I can deliver at least another 10 year in a 1080p format to my clients. The only reason I might see 4k as beneficial is if I need the extra space to stabilize footage or to reframe footage in a 1080p project but other then that, I see no use for it right now.

I also see you have 4k in youtube but whats the use if it's only a very low bitrate, all my clienst pc's and internetconnections can just handle 720p without any stutter.
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Old February 2nd, 2013, 01:21 PM   #14
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Re: Any requests for 3D?

We do not live anymore in a world made for long lasting pictures, so what is shot today is lost tomorrow.
but if you think a bit more, it cost nothing to shoot 3D , and process as 2D today.
When it will be time again for 3D (almost every 7 years), you will get tons of 3D footage ready for your customers.
Littles things you can shoot today will have a great value tomorrow.
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Old February 2nd, 2013, 09:57 PM   #15
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Re: Any requests for 3D?

4K seems a way off for the wedding market.

Roger, yep the WOW factor will do it. I've seen 2000 Ford car dealers at their new model presentation all go ape,
when we played their new adv theme by a 36 piece orchestra in surround sound, with 18 screens dazzling the bejees out of them.

Watching this years CES, glasses free 3D is a new resurgence for TV set manufacturers.
One Sony rep opines, 'in the future this 3D feature will be built into all TV sets.' I agree, after the hype dies down, that'll follow.

I can see a 3D wedding opening now! The smiling new groom hands a glass of bubbling champagne direct to the camera.
The camera zooms through the 3D bubbles and 3D credits super over this .. :)

Imo shooters should study the whole 3D bit. If someone in their market gets a good 3D start, playing catch-up won't be good.
And the punters will think .. if you can provide good 3D, 2D will be a cinch.

Cheers.
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