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Old January 22nd, 2013, 05:39 PM   #31
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Re: Straightforward, Educated Answer Needed Regarding Music Licensing

On a note for the Classical music recordings. I just started to do some of these for a local symphony. I learned from a visiting soloist that commissioned me to shoot her performance that the AFM (American Federation of Musicians) has some regulations regarding recording performances. Just more rules and regulations because our lives aren't complicated enough.
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Old January 22nd, 2013, 06:35 PM   #32
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Re: Straightforward, Educated Answer Needed Regarding Music Licensing

I think it's time to review our business plan. This whole copyright thing has left a really bad taste in my mouth. :(
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Old January 22nd, 2013, 06:52 PM   #33
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Re: Straightforward, Educated Answer Needed Regarding Music Licensing

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Originally Posted by Garrett Low View Post
On a note for the Classical music recordings. I just started to do some of these for a local symphony. I learned from a visiting soloist that commissioned me to shoot her performance that the AFM (American Federation of Musicians) has some regulations regarding recording performances. Just more rules and regulations because our lives aren't complicated enough.
Like what, Garrett? The AFM is a labor union, not a regulation-promulgating body. Perhaps dealing with a musician who is a member of an AFM local means negotiating with a third party, but I don't think it means having to comply with yet another layer of law. I'm interested in hearing what you learn from your soloist or anyone else who is an AFM member.
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Old January 22nd, 2013, 07:04 PM   #34
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Re: Straightforward, Educated Answer Needed Regarding Music Licensing

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Originally Posted by Rey Lowe View Post
I think it's time to review our business plan. This whole copyright thing has left a really bad taste in my mouth. :(
Rey, I can't empathize more. Honestly. Waxing thoughtful for a moment, I believe that thousands (millions?) of copyright infringers, individual or corporate or small business, running scot free on the web and little town America has lulled a populace into believing, willfully or through sheer ignorance, that they somehow don't need or have to comply with copyright laws.

Until someone gets stung. I don't want to be that someone, I'm sure you don't either, and that's probably why you cared enough to post in the first place, right? Think of the "bad taste" as just a bad aftertaste of swallowing what the populace gorges on everyday. (And if you find a good business model, would you mind posting it here, royalty-free of course? ;) )
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Old January 22nd, 2013, 08:48 PM   #35
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Re: Straightforward, Educated Answer Needed Regarding Music Licensing

Steve, you are correct that "regulation" is not the correct term. Coming from a public policy (engineering wise) regulations to me signifies a statutory requirement. A better description would be binding agreements for their members. I'm still trying to wade through all of it but the basics are that the artists can have certain performances recorded as long as it doesn't involve a certain number of other "Professional" artists. Like I said I'm still working through all of the requirements but at this point I'm relying on the artists to make the request for me to record them or not. I know ignorance is not a defense but at this point I have I don't have all of it figured out.
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Old January 23rd, 2013, 06:02 PM   #36
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Re: Straightforward, Educated Answer Needed Regarding Music Licensing

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You pay ~ $0.25/song/disc
I could be wrong here.... but $0.25 per song per disc x 80 songs = $20 per disc in royalties alone.

Add the cost of production and I'd say making a profit is going to be somewhat tough.

Am I wrong?
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Old January 23rd, 2013, 06:05 PM   #37
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Re: Straightforward, Educated Answer Needed Regarding Music Licensing

There was actually going to be two songs per disc (40 groups / 2 songs each). Even so, I'm turning down the job. No way to jump through those hoops in just over a month.
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Old January 23rd, 2013, 07:52 PM   #38
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Re: Straightforward, Educated Answer Needed Regarding Music Licensing

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Originally Posted by Dave Partington View Post
I could be wrong here.... but $0.25 per song per disc x 80 songs = $20 per disc in royalties alone.

Add the cost of production and I'd say making a profit is going to be somewhat tough.

Am I wrong?
Your math is correct. A+. ;)

However, I would challenge a few unstated assumptions:

1. Not necessarily all songs require a license. Public domain works are exempt, as discussed above. Further, some copyright holders may grant a license gratis. My last production featured an example of each. Hence, I paid no licensing fees for 2 songs.

2. Assuming fixed licensing fees and other costs, then price per disc will govern profit, right? In my economically robust locale, $20-30 is roughly the price for a DVD of a typical school concerts, which in my experience are about 1h long. (In other and economically soft areas of the U.S., prices are as low as ~$15/disc.) That length accommodates, say, 10-14 songs. Now you do your math again. Not so bad now.

Not no way, not no how would I charge $20-30 for producing 80 songs, no matter how many discs it took!! I'd either charge a lot more, and justifiably so, or else parse the entire production into smaller units for individual sale, as Rey illustrated in his follow-on post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rey Lowe View Post
There was actually going to be two songs per disc (40 groups / 2 songs each). Even so, I'm turning down the job. No way to jump through those hoops in just over a month.
Rey, a month is pushing it, but it could be done. I get licenses in place from MOST publishers within about 2 weeks from the dates of placing requests. (In a few instances, I heard back in less than a day!) It's the few outliers who take their time for whatever reasons that will create the headaches.
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