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Shooting non-repeatable events: weddings, recitals, plays, performances...


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Old January 22nd, 2013, 03:09 PM   #31
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Re: Weddings in 24 FPS

My whole point was that 24p or 25p does not automatically give you a filmlook while many, including you, believe it does, if I look at my video in the raw format on a big screen it's ofcourse a lot sharper then the vimeo compressed image but if I would have used 25p instead of 50p for that particular video you would not have noticed for sure and it would not have made my film more filmlike

The film you have posted does look nice but I"m sorry to say that I don't associate it with a filmlook, not saying it was bad shot or whatever, I just don't see a filmlook in it.

24 or 25p does contribute a little bit in creating a filmlook because of the motion blur it causes which you see in some motion pictures but the frame rate alone doesn't contribute to a filmlook at all, if it would my cx730 would be able to produce "filmlike" images but it doesn't.

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it appeared to me to be a small sensor camera because of a lack of detail in the opening shots.
Not that it is that important but large sensor camera's can have much less detail then small sensor camera's, the small sensor panasonic ag-ac90 has one of the sharpest images around while the large sensor 5DII has less resolution then my small sensor cx730. Just saying sensor size alone doesn't say much about sharpness or resolution.
Now the interesting part is that I saw the latest bond film some time ago and it was quite soft on the big screen lacking detail in areal shots of the cities but the footage was very filmlike, so from my perspective sharpness and very high detail is not something I would associate with film either.
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Old January 22nd, 2013, 06:13 PM   #32
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Re: Weddings in 24 FPS

Hi Noa

I have a Canadian friend who shoots everything in 24P (I don't think he knows why) and he mainly does video of choral groups.... it has absolutely no "filmic" or "cinema" style look to it at all and looks just like normal run-of-the-mill footage.

Guys, Noa is correct and it's a combination of many processes to get the "look" (and skills too which Noa HAS got) so it's far from the simple process of switching to 24P and saying I now have the film look

Chris
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Old January 23rd, 2013, 02:18 AM   #33
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Re: Weddings in 24 FPS

When the panasonic dvx100 came out (I used to have one to) the filmmaker community was very excited because it could do 24/25P but the actual strength of this camera, and what enabled it to have a very filmlike look, was the fact it had scene settings which you could fine tune by changing the gamma, matrix, chroma values etc and that made a big difference.

It was easy to get a videolook, also in 25p, depending on the scene setting you choose but once you dove into the scene settings you could give the camera a very different look. It was also possible to get a very weird look if you got it wrong :)
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Old January 23rd, 2013, 02:41 AM   #34
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Re: Weddings in 24 FPS

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Originally Posted by Chris Harding View Post
and skills too which Noa HAS got
My skill is very limited to the fact I know how to use the rule of thirds a bit and I can do pretty controlled moves with my camera :) but my knowledge in how to set up and light a real film scene or how to tell a story right is very limited, that's why I look at a lot of video's on vimeo from the guys who know how to do it right and I always think "I want to be able to do that too!"

It always looks so simple but it isn"t, I guess I know how when I"m 80.
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Old January 23rd, 2013, 01:24 PM   #35
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Re: Weddings in 24 FPS

Weddings in particular and events in general are interesting for the "one man band". You are the camera op, audio technician, lighting "director" to a limited degree, and the "director" to an even more limited degree... later you are the editor, producer, color timer, etc. etc. etc....

Think about how many names roll by on the credits of ANY movie... now think about all the diverse talents and contributions to the finished product that all those names brought to the process...

If you've watched the "bonus" content on many DVD's, you'll sometimes see "raw" footage or partially finished footage that didn't make the final cut, and isn't fully color corrected and "finished" - it often looks pretty "bad", yet when it was shot it was intended to go into the finished product, but it never got all the "polish"...

There are a lot of elements that go into making a "film" (even a digital one!), but sometimes it seems like the expectation is that "if I just do this" or "if I set this magic setting this way", suddenly a "cinematic masterpiece" will pop out of the camera and onto DVD/BR...

Noa it appears is on much the same "path" as I find myself... framing, composition, general camera placement moves and settings, I've got a handle on those... lighting, getting there... getting the "look" I want in post, sometimes on purpose, sometimes by "accident"!

SO MUCH to learn if one decides to go the "one man, many hats" route, and it's sadly not a "one setting" proposition...
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Old January 23rd, 2013, 03:51 PM   #36
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Re: Weddings in 24 FPS

To add to this discussion. Often the argument for 24p is that it portrays a less than real experience. Added to this films are framed, exposure is chosen and colouring applied to enhance the NOT REAL experience. The intent being to suggest that what is being shown is not real but is fiction/artistic. Which is perfect for a fictional story. Some work in the past suggested that frame rates less than about 48fps were considered NOT REAL by viewers and frame rates faster than this were considered a representation of a real event. So by default the economic choice to distribute films at 24fps fell nicely into this mold. Consequently film cameras and projectors were then manufactured in this format. All made economic sense that just doesn't apply today. So my take is more based on the psychological effects of frame rate. If its real shoot and display at a high frame rate if its fiction shoot or at least render to less than 48fps. Framing, camera movement, colorizing is totally independent of frame rate. Personally if its an event or documentary I want to see it as if I was there live, looking through a window. An old documentary shot on film is acceptable but today shot at 24p is suggesting to me that it may not be real !!!! If its a fictional film anything goes and I will pass judgement if I like it or not.

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Old January 26th, 2013, 09:34 AM   #37
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Re: Weddings in 24 FPS

You guys are so funny. This is such a silly discussion. Just go out and shoot. Do what you like.
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Old January 26th, 2013, 08:40 PM   #38
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Re: Weddings in 24 FPS

There're more than just frame rate to determine the "film look". So blindly following that to shoot at 24 fps doesn't do you any good.

Best way is to try out to see which one you like best. I tried both and I decided to stick with 30fps. It's just give me a little bit better slow motion footage, and less stuttering during panning.

You won't get more storage on disc recording at 24fps. File size is determined by how many megabits per second. File size will be the same shooting 24p or 30p or 60p with the same data rate.
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Old January 27th, 2013, 11:40 AM   #39
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Re: Weddings in 24 FPS

Taky! Good to meet you this week.
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Old January 27th, 2013, 01:19 PM   #40
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Re: Weddings in 24 FPS

hey hey Bill... the name is familiar just not sure if that's the same person. Hey nice to meet you too. The whole InFocus video event is education and fun. Good to network with all the cinematographers too :)
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