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Old June 3rd, 2013, 11:38 PM   #16
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Re: Highs and Lows at one wedding

Chris,
First off my comment was to Roger, not you. I was responding to Roger's post, not yours.

I was responding to long comments he made that indicate he has less then stellar feelings about the clergy. Go back and read it for yourself.

Besides that Roger seems quite capable of responding for himself. Unless you are trying to indicate that he is incapable, just say so.

It's just a discussion of different views Chris. I don't think Roger or anybody else is offended. Well maybe you are. In that case maybe you are the one that needs to lighten up.

The discussion is about highs and lows in the church. So quite naturally we have different views on the same subject.

So how about contributing to the discussion rather then trying to go personal with me.

And please let Roger speak for himself, he's actually good at expressing himself, in case you haven't noticed.
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Old June 4th, 2013, 01:12 AM   #17
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Re: Highs and Lows at one wedding

Hi Al

Point taken. I was just confused as to how one's personal feelings (which are not what our forum is about)
has anything to do with shooting weddings.

My apologies if I don't take such matters so seriously but I'm only really interested in the video shoot.

No offence was intended

Chris
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Old June 4th, 2013, 01:33 AM   #18
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Re: Highs and Lows at one wedding

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Gunkel View Post
Oh and I still can't find anything in the bible that says 'Thou shalt not have video in a Place of worship'.
That's because they didn't have any camera's back then! :D

Well, I can relate to a lot Roger is saying, in Belgium I hardly have any issues, priests are usually very easy to work with but in the Netherlands it's a different story, not as bad as in the uk but getting close sometimes.
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Old June 4th, 2013, 07:16 AM   #19
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Re: Highs and Lows at one wedding

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Originally Posted by Al Gardner View Post
Roger,
That is one interesting diatribe. While you say you don't have anything against the church, your writing certainly suggest otherwise. I detect a deep seated resentment.
And if the church would subscribe to the same line of thinking about you, I guess their conclusion would be that you contribute nothing to the Church.
Sorry guys my internet has been down for the last 24 hours and I have just got back from a very friendly and light hearted meeting with a Vicar about this coming Friday's wedding.

Thanks for you support Chris and yes Al I am very able to answer for myself given an internet connection, so here is my reply :-)

I said quite clearly that I usually have very good relationships with the clergy, I never argue and am extremely polite and diplomatic with them. When there is a problem it seems to be at the expense of the wishes of the Bride and Groom and with no basis in religious requirements whatsoever. But, a Vicar could totally refuse to have any video at all in the Church and it would make absolutely no difference to me or my business, but it would have a negative effect on the wishes of the couple who are my clients. So I think that you are confusing my resentment at the patronising attitude of a small section of a few churches with a resentment of the Church as a whole. As in most things, the attitude of a few can affect the image of the whole.

Why would the Church have 'the same line of thinking' about me, particularly as I do absolutely nothing to stop them doing their job properly? It is only a small minority of Vicars and PCC members that there is a problem with, who themselves are in direct contradiction with the Churches guidelines with which I fully agree.

I object to some of the things that some members of the Church seek to impose with impunity, whilst having no problem whatsoever with most other aspects. It may be your conclusion that I have a deep seated resentment and that I contribute nothing to the Church, I don't think that the vast majority of the clergy that I have dealt with regularly over the last 30 years would agree with you. On the contrary, there are several Vicars in my own diocese who support my view that there should be a more cooperative relationship with wedding professionals and I have arranged a meeting later in the year with several of them and parochial council members, to discuss it further. I am quite prepare to back my words with action in a positive way, in the lifelong held view that one voice can make a difference if you speak loudly enough.

Condemning my point of view on a forum will make no difference whatsoever, whereas actively trying to improve the situation might!

Roger
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Old June 4th, 2013, 09:02 AM   #20
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Re: Highs and Lows at one wedding

Roger,
While I disagree with you, I don't condemn you. Not sure where you read that.

My point was regarding your words about the church. I just can't see how better results can be expected when you feel that way about the church.

I think nothing will really change until there is mutual respect. Just as in any given situation between 2 entities.

Al
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Old June 4th, 2013, 09:16 AM   #21
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Re: Highs and Lows at one wedding

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Originally Posted by Al Gardner View Post
Roger,
While I disagree with you, I don't condemn you. Not sure where you read that.

My point was regarding your words about the church. I just can't see how better results can be expected when you feel that way about the church.

I think nothing will really change until there is mutual respect. Just as in any given situation between 2 entities.

Al
I think I have made it clear that there is mutual respect in most areas, but not all. So let's agree to disagree and move on :-)

Roger
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Old June 4th, 2013, 09:32 AM   #22
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Re: Highs and Lows at one wedding

Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Gardner View Post
Roger,
While I disagree with you, I don't condemn you. Not sure where you read that.

My point was regarding your words about the church. I just can't see how better results can be expected when you feel that way about the church.

I think nothing will really change until there is mutual respect. Just as in any given situation between 2 entities.

Al
Actually I share some of Roger's concerns, though I've encountered such attitudes in civil Weddings too. Yes these people have rules, but like us they're doing a job. You condemn Videographers for having an attitude of it's all about me, rightly or wrongly; yet such an attitude is by no means restricted to the Videographer. Photographers, Toastmasters, Wedding co-ordinators, Vicars; even the caterers on a recent Wedding were bullying and rude. In the case of the latter, the Bride and Groom will be having words with them after they stood firm and refused to feed me or the Photographers as the venue had promised and been paid for.
There's nothing wrong with being cheesed off with those who make your life difficult nor should such an attitude affect your work. If a Wedding professional behaves like a git, I can't dictate how I feel only my response, which I strive to be polite and courteous. I have a respect for the church, having attended church myself growing up on a regular basis, but like any profession there are good and bad examples of priests and vicars. Most I agree are acting out of bad experience, some I'm sure are acting out of a distaste for being filmed; fine but when they then go on about the sanctity of a religious Ceremony but happily admit to watching a Royal Wedding and Songs of Praise, you can't help but feel you're being treated to hypocrisy. Thankfully such people are exceptions, with many in the church being quite welcoming and I've had more good experiences than bad. I've had some bad civil Wedding experiences too, though thankfully the Ceremony is so much shorter.
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Old June 4th, 2013, 10:07 AM   #23
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Re: Highs and Lows at one wedding

Good points Steve,

Maybe as videographers we should manage our clients expectations better.

They should know the pitfalls in advance that come with certain venues and maybe try to remedy the situation in advance. It should not be up to the vidographer to try to break rules just to get a shot.
I know a videographer who was kicked out of church and can never work there again.

We should make our clients more proactive,

The biggest nemesis for me here in the U.S. wasn't Priest but what we refer to as "The Church Lady" Typically an older woman with serious tunnel vision. I remember being taken to task for using a 6" piece of gaffer tape on those beautiful marble floors. It took a long time to make her believe I wasn't harming the floor with the tape. But it just shows how dedicated she is to her church, and I get that.

But with mutual respect even "The Church Lady" softened up over time.
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Old June 4th, 2013, 10:09 AM   #24
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Re: Highs and Lows at one wedding

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Harding View Post
Hi Al

Point taken. I was just confused as to how one's personal feelings (which are not what our forum is about)
has anything to do with shooting weddings.

My apologies if I don't take such matters so seriously but I'm only really interested in the video shoot.

No offence was intended

Chris
No problem Chris,
I'm not the best writer and my words don't always reflect what I meant.
AL
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Old June 4th, 2013, 02:00 PM   #25
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Re: Highs and Lows at one wedding

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Originally Posted by Al Gardner View Post
Good points Steve,
But with mutual respect even "The Church Lady" softened up over time.
I agree to some extent with that Al, and one thing that I forgot to mention about my first post wedding, was that inspite of her attitude making things unnecessarily difficult for me, I was always polite and respectful to her. As I collected my bag after the ceremony, she came over to me and shook my hand and thanked me for being very discrete and professional. Lets's see what happens next time.

Roger
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