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Shooting non-repeatable events: weddings, recitals, plays, performances...


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Old July 19th, 2013, 01:47 PM   #16
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Re: I put recorders everywhere at church. :)

I"m only pointing out all cheap audio recorders do drift, even if it's just a little. Since it has been mentioned by Paul that you can't use pluraleyes effectively if the two recorders shift out of sync over time I think this is a valid question worth asking, if you don't care then maybe someone who does and knows can answer this, I at least like to know..
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Old July 19th, 2013, 01:56 PM   #17
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Re: I put recorders everywhere at church. :)

I said earlier all clocking device will drift. There should be no surprise. It only matters if the device drifted big causing problem. From what we do, i.e. weddings, I don't experience that. And Pluraleyes is still effectively sync all my audio clips to video clips even the audio clips are 3 to 4 hour long recorded at reception.

Years ago I had an Olympus WS something recorder that only do WMV. It drifts noticiebly in an hour while I try to sync manually with DV clips. Then the simple time stretch tool in Premiere calculated the I need to change the speed to 100.06% to fix. That was it. And of course I don't use that recorder anymore. :)
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Old July 19th, 2013, 02:16 PM   #18
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Re: I put recorders everywhere at church. :)

They do drift. I think in a creative piece from a wedding it may not make as much difference as you don't have constant lip visuals. In my work over a 90 minute shoot of a persons lips with no cutaway shots it can be an issue.

I was told by someone in the biz that if you cut or separate your clips every 10 minutes that would cure the drift.
Hmmmmm, never tried it? Anybody?
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Old July 19th, 2013, 03:01 PM   #19
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Re: I put recorders everywhere at church. :)

I have hour long catholic wedding that the lav mic+DM420 on priest. lav+sony recorder on groom, and the H2 connected to the DJ sound. Even the H1 I hide right at the altar, they all line up without problem. I will post a screen shot of the timeline later.
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Old July 19th, 2013, 04:08 PM   #20
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Re: I put recorders everywhere at church. :)

When syncing multiple cameras, I find you have to consider there will be some delay depending on the distance from the source - IOW, if you match audio peaks from cameras positioned some distance from each other, the VISUAL cues may not match 100%!

I do a rough match with the audio, then try to find a portion of the clip with distinct motion while in a multicam display... then nudge as needed. Then the "fun" is to pick the "master" audio track to sync any audio only tracks... and toss extra tracks that aren't needed...

Audio travels at a different speed that light (aka "video component"). Not to mention that audio can bounce and "reflect" as well, adding to the challenge... This won't be an issue if all your cameras are within a couple feet of each other, but if you're shooting an event with cams at multiple positions and distances, you WILL encounter some tricky sync issues. Having run audio, I'll only say that some venues can be VERY difficult to deal with audio wise!



In theory electronic clocks should be more accurate than old mechanical recorders, but there can be manufacturing variances, and possibly internal drift with age (we all suffer from that, eh?), a few milliseconds probably won't be noticeable and might even add "ambience", more than that may require a small stretch or compress of the affected track. Not a big deal, just do what's needed!
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Old July 20th, 2013, 06:29 AM   #21
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Re: I put recorders everywhere at church. :)

I rarely record audio for more than 30-40 minutes at a stretch so even if my digital recorders were to drift after 2-3 hours it doesn't matter.
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Old July 20th, 2013, 09:32 AM   #22
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Re: I put recorders everywhere at church. :)

Like Taky, I use Plural Eyes. I also will run the audio for the reception for several hours, and syncing is just not a problem. For speakers at things like training seminars or whatever, the drift is just not bad at all, and at most I simply cut and shift audio clips as needed.

I also use a Yamaha recorder as well as two zooms, they all sync really well.
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Old July 20th, 2013, 10:48 AM   #23
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Re: I put recorders everywhere at church. :)

But if you don't cut and shift audio clips what does Plural eyes do then, give a message that it can't sync or will it sync in the beginning and leave out of sync at the end if there is a few frames drift?
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Old July 20th, 2013, 07:10 PM   #24
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Re: I put recorders everywhere at church. :)

RODE is still offering free PluralEyes till the end of July by buying a RODE VideoMic Pro or Video StereoMic Pro. It's $200 free, great deal. I'm a RODE authorized reseller. I can offer a small discount to DVInfo members.

PluralEyes been serving me well all these years.
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Old July 20th, 2013, 08:42 PM   #25
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Re: I put recorders everywhere at church. :)

I have the Rode Video Stereomic. I wanted to love this mic so bad.

Unfortunately it falls way short of likable. I doubt it will be on the market much longer.
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Old July 20th, 2013, 09:05 PM   #26
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Re: I put recorders everywhere at church. :)

What kind of video you use it for? the stereo mic is for capturing ambient sound, nature sound, and live music with highfidelity recording.

The VideoMic is a mono shotgun mic with rear and side noise rejection. It pick up sound from one direction only. good for capturing dialog. Its more for general purpose I would say.

Rode released Stereo VideoMic Pro to replace the Stereo VideoMic. Its not going away: ),
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Old July 21st, 2013, 08:47 AM   #27
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Re: I put recorders everywhere at church. :)

I use 2 Olympus DM420's, a Zoom H4N, and 5-6 camera sources for Catholic weddings that routinely run over an hour, and have never had an issue with any of my audio drifting -- they always sync perfectly and remain that way the entire duration. I don't use PluralEyes because it's never a big deal for me to manually sync.

I'm looking to score a few more DM420's now because I'm inspired by Taky, and I've run into some dubious audio situations this year.
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Old July 21st, 2013, 09:37 AM   #28
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Re: I put recorders everywhere at church. :)

Thank you Corey

Check out these clips i tested. I ended up buy two more of the sony recorders instead of the DM420


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Old July 21st, 2013, 10:46 AM   #29
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Re: I put recorders everywhere at church. :)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Taky Cheung View Post
What kind of video you use it for? the stereo mic is for capturing ambient sound, nature sound, and live music with highfidelity recording.

The VideoMic is a mono shotgun mic with rear and side noise rejection. It pick up sound from one direction only. good for capturing dialog. Its more for general purpose I would say.

Rode released Stereo VideoMic Pro to replace the Stereo VideoMic. Its not going away: ),
The Stereo Video Mic Pro is what I have. I love Rode products but this mic offers nothing unique for $300 bucks. It's not bad, but a specialty mic should do something special. I use it for recording live music and it just doesn't stand out as a $300 mic.

This is the last thing that I recorded with it. It's not bad and probably better then a lot of camera mics, but surely worse than some. I think you could do the same thing with a mic that cost less than $300

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Old July 21st, 2013, 04:07 PM   #30
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Re: I put recorders everywhere at church. :)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Noa Put View Post
Offcourse you don't but I think you shouldn't make claims that aren't true either without backing it up. I have had a discussion some time ago in the audio section claiming my recorders didn't drift either and the audio pro's said that this wasn't possible so I lined up my camera recording with a few of my recorders (like a yamaha c24, zoom h1, zoom h4 and I think I also used my tascam dr40.)

If I line up several videocamera's the audiowaveform stil matches after an hour but all my audio recorders did drift, even if it was a few frames, none kept perfect sync and I posted a framegrab of the drift. the audio guys said I was the luckiest guy on the planet to have external recorders that only drifted a few frames on a hour :)

So, unless you can show this I only can conclude your recorders do drift, even if you might barely hear it in short recordings, but if you would record 2-3 hours constantly you are bound to hear it. this means plural eyes probably only uses a reference point in the beginning to sync up.
I think Taky is effectively fudging and I believe we all do it at times. He says it drifts....he says it doesn't drift. A bit of fudging.

It's kind of like buying a brand new car that gets 25 miles on the hwy and 19 miles city. When someone ask you about how much mileage you get you always say 25mpg. It's not lying, it's just that the answer is buried deep in that gray area.
The problem is when you say it to people who know better.
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