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Old July 24th, 2013, 08:21 PM   #1
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Using music during long version

Hello, First off, I am new here and have learned so much from reading your posts. I am a news photog and I am looking to do some weddings on the side. I have a few questions for you guys. I understand I should use music for the cinema trailer 6-10 video, but what about the long video? Do you guys place music in there or do you just let it be as natrual as possible. And if you do use music do you use the same song you used in the trailer. Buying music can get up there in cost.

Do you charge per mile when you have to film a wedding that is more than an hour away? Or do you just take the gig?
Thanks in advance.
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Old July 24th, 2013, 11:57 PM   #2
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Re: Using music during long version

Hi Jeff,

Welcome.

I do long form doco style weddings and use music throughout wherever it seems appropriate. Sometimes to replace the actual song playing at the time (eg first dance) others to cover up poor nat sound eg, wind on the mic during beach photos. Music at the start is important as it sets the mood and I usually have some nat sound heard underneath, not just 100% music. For this reason, for scenes like the girls getting ready, I ask them to turn down the music/TV if they have it going, so it doesn't mess with my sound.

Here in Australia we can use commercially available music which we pay an annual licence for, or you can licence one event at a time, which covers us for DVDs but not online use at present.

I charge mileage beyond 50km from home.

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Old July 25th, 2013, 12:22 AM   #3
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Re: Using music during long version

Mark,
Thanks for the advice. I have been looking at sites such as Songfreedom.com and they only charge $30 per song. I guess I will just have to buy 2-3 songs and use them. Others have told me to just incoperate the songs from the reception, and use nat sound. Thanks again.
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Old July 25th, 2013, 02:39 AM   #4
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Re: Using music during long version

Obviously using music via nat sound from the reception is not ideal because it sounds pretty ordinary, you need to keep rolling continuously for continuity and if you move around the sound changes. Having said that I only replace the first dance or two music, the rest is all nat sound, so do whatever you're comfortable with.

I'm pretty sure you are technically still in breach of mechanical copyright if you use it in your video, even if it is being played by a DJ and you record it, although there must be a fair use clause these days. Sorry I don't know the rules for you folks stateside.
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Old July 25th, 2013, 02:44 AM   #5
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Re: Using music during long version

Jeff, my highlights go online and I buy music for each of them. The rest of the dvd however is only ever seen by the couple, so I use the same background music for every client. And the licensing thing will probably only ever catch you out on your online content. I doubt your clients will report you for not licensing the music on their dvd.
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Old July 25th, 2013, 07:02 AM   #6
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Re: Using music during long version

We ask the couple to pick at least five songs for us to use as necessary. We don't guarantee to use any or all but it's nice to have their choice to get an idea on their tastes. Mostly of course couples choose all the same bloody songs e.g. Bruno Bloody Mars but occasionally we get surprised & introduced to good new music like the couple from the other week who chose Mumford & Son plus a number of artists that I had never even heard of who were all excellent albeit reminiscent of music that I am familiar with but then my musical memory stretches back a long way.

The online highlights is all based on a musical track with usually some audio from speeches or vows dropped in. For the long form the ceremony & speeches & first dance are done with natural sound & no music except possibly snippets at beginning or end. Everything else uses the couple's chosen tracks to provide some sort of continuity & then the live recording is brought up & down as appropriate e.g. when there is something worth listening to. For example for the drinks reception I like to have the sound mixed up enough that there is a nice burble of conversation. I edit in Premiere Pro & use the Constant Power audio transition to smooth the audio between different clips & it does a great job especially with compression applied to the whole audio track so the volume is normalised. If someone says anything interesting or funny I will bring up the volume for that clip.
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Old July 25th, 2013, 11:20 AM   #7
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Re: Using music during long version

So as long as I buy the music for the tralier that goes online I should be fine. I should have the couple supply me with some songs that they choose (itunes ex and just use thise on the long vesion dvd?
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Old July 25th, 2013, 11:48 AM   #8
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Re: Using music during long version

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Originally Posted by Jeff Cook View Post
So as long as I buy the music for the tralier that goes online I should be fine. I should have the couple supply me with some songs that they choose (itunes ex and just use thise on the long vesion dvd?
Here in the UK we can use whatever music we like on a wedding video on purchasing a Limited Manufacture Licence at very modest cost Limited Manufacture Licence (LM) - CDs and vinyls

It's not so straightforward in other legal jurisdictions.
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Old July 26th, 2013, 02:26 PM   #9
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Re: Using music during long version

Without getting into the copyright issue, one thing I really like doing with the long form version of the film:

I make 2 audio tracks for the DVD: one with music sprinkled through to spice it up, one with just the ambient sound. The couple can simply hit the "audio" button on their player (or go to an audio select menu) to trade off sound. They love it!

The cinematic highlights are what they are. No audio choice.
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Old July 26th, 2013, 11:57 PM   #10
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Re: Using music during long version

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Originally Posted by Tim Bakland View Post
Without getting into the copyright issue, one thing I really like doing with the long form version of the film:

I make 2 audio tracks for the DVD: one with music sprinkled through to spice it up, one with just the ambient sound. The couple can simply hit the "audio" button on their player (or go to an audio select menu) to trade off sound. They love it!

The cinematic highlights are what they are. No audio choice.
That is a great idea. I just had a potential client ask if it was possible to have their wedding video without music & I just replied explaining that the music was needed to provide some continuity etc & that generally there wasn't much interesting to be heard. Now I can tell them that we can both have our way.
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Old July 27th, 2013, 01:33 AM   #11
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Re: Using music during long version

[QUOTE=Nigel Barker;1806013]We ask the couple to pick at least five songs for us to use as necessary. Mostly of course couples choose all the same bloody songs e.g. Bruno Bloody Mars but occasionally we get surprised & introduced to good new music like the couple from the other week who chose Mumford & Son plus a number of artists that I had never even heard of who were all excellent albeit reminiscent of music that I am familiar with but then my musical memory stretches back a long way.

Nigel for seven years it was doing my head in!! why oh why do they choose the same songs in England with no thought. This year I have already done 17 weddings and the same bloody music... So what I have done now is this, every time I go into the fine details of the day a couple weeks before I say what songs have you chosen?? 50% say leave it to me so I can really get to grips with mumford and sons ect and the likes of our nice trailer music we use, then the other 50%, if there music is terrible I quickly say! oh sorry you cant have that its copyrited and then I say but I have lots have music that you can have!! So I then send them a 100 song sheet of my music I want. Not being selfish I do include marry you Bruno and stuff like that, but at least I can get creative with some good stuff.Please don't call me selfish hehe...
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Old July 27th, 2013, 01:50 AM   #12
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Re: Using music during long version

(Quote)I understand I should use music for the cinema trailer 6-10 video, but what about the long video?

(Quote) Do you charge per mile when you have to film a wedding that is more than an hour away? Or do you just take the gig?



Jeff, if I tried to charge for the mileage after the hour, I would lose the booking!!!

I used to do 5/8 minutes trailer thinking that's what I wanted to do for me and to make sure everyone knew who I was and what statement I was putting out to the world. Then when I was giving the DVD over for their feature film I was getting some with no feedback? Strange I thought only a few saying they loved the film? Then I did a little feedback with the ones that never got in touch with me when I gave them the film. I asked them was all ok with the film and did they enjoy the whole experience?? Their answer was, oh Steve sorry I never got back in touch because the trailer was so good and we gave you feedback then we completely did not feel the need to get back in touch, also some feedback was that, because the trailer was so long they did not feel as excited about getting the DVD, it took a little shine off the full DVD. They where still excited don't get me wrong but they thought the trailer should be shorter, so now I cut my trailers down to no more than 3/4 minutes and try not to over kill , just let the trailer flow a little then finish. This way when they get the full DVD 6 weeks later they really really really want to see it. Maybe that's me and England, we are a funny breed...
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Old August 1st, 2013, 05:19 AM   #13
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Re: Using music during long version

Here in Spain nobody really checks copyright but things are gradually changing. As far as i understand if you are putting whatever music on a wedding DVD for private use there isn't a problem. There could be if you hired a projector and showed the video in the village square! If you are doing a short clip to post online then best to use music where you pay for the copyright.
As far as the edit goes, in long form docu style(30-50mins depending on what happens on the day), I use several songs to move the piece along. I usually use Shazam (app on my phone) to tell me what songs they used throughout the day and use them to edit sequences. I blend the music with the background atmosphere so it maintains the feel and excitement of the wedding day. Any important parts with voices and the music is stopped or lowered. For the dances etc you can use a Zoom or whatever to record the ambient sound (music, laughter, chat etc) for 2-3 songs and edit the dancing/drinking to that. That way you get whole songs with atmosphere. Works for me at least.
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