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Old August 22nd, 2013, 03:06 AM   #16
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Re: Ceremony audio - What lengths do you go to?

Hey Noa, I think I actually learned the tape-Yamaha-to-microphone trick from you! Either you or Nigel. From memory, you used to use a method involving a piece of rubber and velcro straps. I just use gaffer tape.

Main problem I've had with this system is that both my Yamahas aren't entirely reliable. They sometimes stop recording, for no apparent reason, after two minutes. If this happens, then reformatting the micro SD seems to solve the problem, but it's one more thing to worry about. The AAA doesn't always last the entire reception as well, so that needs changing halfway.

Re sound from loudspeakers, I agree with you that it often sounds great. A lot more natural than a sterile feed from a DJ, for instance. But even that has potential problems, like people speaking without using microphones or microphones failing or church's system distorting the audio. So, back to the lavaliere drawing board we go...

Totally agree that more gear = more fuss = more potential stuff-ups, though I haven't yet learned the lesson well enough to stop doing it...
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Old August 22nd, 2013, 03:35 AM   #17
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Re: Ceremony audio - What lengths do you go to?

Adrian, my C24s are totally reliable which I attribute to the fact that I only ever use the 2GB internal memory whereas I have heard of reliability issues when using a micro-SD card. The internal memory is easily enough to record all day at max rate MP3.
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Old August 26th, 2013, 12:58 AM   #18
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Re: Ceremony audio - What lengths do you go to?

We mic the groom and bride using the G3 system. We really don't care about anyone else.
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Old August 26th, 2013, 01:06 AM   #19
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Re: Ceremony audio - What lengths do you go to?

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We mic the groom and bride using the G3 system. We really don't care about anyone else.
Don't you record audio during a ceremony where several friends and family come to say personal things to the couple? Or don't you record evening speeches either?

About the c24's being unreliable, I didn't have any issues so far (knock on wood) but with any external recorders that don't have any live monitoring option you only know if it went wrong when you listen at it at home. I use a tascam dr40 as well which replaced a zoom h4 last year, the zoom also would not record randomly without any reason, I saw it recording and when I came home nothing was on the card, luckily I had back up audio which I think is the most important part of audio recording at a wedding; make sure you do have a backup plan. Ofcourse if a system audio system like the g3 would fail during a ceremony you will hear it in your headphones but there is not much you could do about that either at that moment, so also there backup recorders at a sound speaker for instance are crucial.
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Old August 26th, 2013, 03:42 AM   #20
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Re: Ceremony audio - What lengths do you go to?

I used to use Sennheiser radio microphones on the groom recording to a Fostex fr-2le however the Sony mini digital recorders have been so easy and reliable to use(touch wood) that I have now decided not to bother with wireless.
As for monitoring the audio, there's nothing I can do if it starts to play up during a service ( apart from stress and feel sick !), so its better to not worry about it and concentrate on all my other worries LOL.
I just double mic the groom, mic the officiant (if allowed) and hide a couple of recorders at the lectern or elsewhere.
With regard to the C24, I very recently had an issue with mine whereby it hadn't recorded so I've kind of gone off that as well.( I will try just using the internal memory as suggested thanks )
The Sony's seem very basic but do a job, turn them on and press record. That's what I like, keep it simple but have lots of them!
I also now use the Sonys for the speeches by miking up each person. I'm building quite a collection of them.
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Old August 26th, 2013, 06:14 AM   #21
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Re: Ceremony audio - What lengths do you go to?

the zoom also would not record randomly without any reason, I saw it recording and when I came home nothing was on the card, luckily I had back up audio which I think is the most important part of audio recording at a wedding

The Zoom H4n has a somewhat freakish operating procedure in that you have to press the record button twice to actually record. Pressing it just once brings up the Levels monitor and the red light flashes, fooling many an unfortunate operator into thinking it is recording when it is not. Its only recording when the red light is on continuously. Its easy to forget this even when you think you know it.

There is a long tutorial on a well-known photo-video site on an unrelated subject in which you can clearly see a Zoom H4n flashing away in red on the table in front of the two talking heads :- ) Fortunately for them they were also using wireless lavs as backup. Its probably happened to all of us.

The Yamaha C24 is now discontinued. Remaining stock seems quite pricey. Its successor the Pocketrak PR7 looks well specified including at last a tripod thread in the back but its mics are unprotected and it is significantly larger than the C24.

I guess we've all looked at the new Zoom H6 by now - though not with a view to putting it in the grooms pocket! But its lack of locks on the dials makes it a non-starter for me. Far to easy to inadvertently change a setting.

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Old August 26th, 2013, 06:30 AM   #22
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Re: Ceremony audio - What lengths do you go to?

I like to keep it vey simple, with a Sony in the Groom's pocket with the mic clipped low down on the jacket to pick up B&G and Officiant. I have another Sony placed somewhere near to pick up the overall ambient sound just in case, and usually mix in the sound from one camera which is 5:1 digital surround, as like Noa, I like to capture the natural reverb, but with the vows enhanced by the Lav mic.

I use the inbuilt memory in the Sony recorders for reliability and like the fact that I just turn them on and press record, little chance of making a mistake. Keep it simple is always the best way for me.

As speeches in the UK are usually all on the head table, I use a Sony recorder with a split lead and two lavs hidden along the table to pick up the speakers. Again I like to hear the ambient sound of the room as well, as it adds the atmosphere, laughter etc.

As I am usually solo, working this way enables me to set up and break down very quickly.

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Old August 26th, 2013, 07:24 AM   #23
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Re: Ceremony audio - What lengths do you go to?

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Originally Posted by Peter Riding View Post
The Zoom H4n has a somewhat freakish operating procedure in that you have to press the record button twice to actually record. Pressing it just once brings up the Levels monitor and the red light flashes, fooling many an unfortunate operator into thinking it is recording when it is not.

That was not the case, I knew the zoom h4 too well as I have been using it since the first time it came out, the zoom was recording and I was 100% sure about that, only now and then there was nothing on the card. This started happening after a few years of use, one time the zoom was on a mini-tripod just a few cms above the floor and when I wanted to pick it up after a hour recording I accidently hit it with my hand and it fell over, the distance it fell to the ground was so small but it was enough to kich the recorder out of it's recording mode and it was in standby mode when I picked it up, again no recording saved. So then it got an early retirment :) I might have a look at it this winter and do some more testing with another card to see if I can still use it next year.
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Old August 26th, 2013, 08:18 AM   #24
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Re: Ceremony audio - What lengths do you go to?

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Originally Posted by Peter Riding View Post
The Zoom H4n has a somewhat freakish operating procedure in that you have to press the record button twice to actually record.
I know our Tascam's have that as an option. The idea is supposed to be to check your levels first without actually recording.

For those who don't like pocket recorders since you can't live monitor and thus won't know if something went wrong.... with wireless you'd know something went wrong, but presumably wouldn't be able to do anything about it mid-ceremony. That just leaves levels. Though I have had issues with wireless microphone interference in one or two of our area churches who have a lot of A/V gear.

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Old August 26th, 2013, 09:08 AM   #25
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Re: Ceremony audio - What lengths do you go to?

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Originally Posted by Peter Riding View Post
The Zoom H4n has a somewhat freakish operating procedure in that you have to press the record button twice to actually record. Pressing it just once brings up the Levels monitor and the red light flashes, fooling many an unfortunate operator into thinking it is recording when it is not. Its only recording when the red light is on continuously. Its easy to forget this even when you think you know it.
The Yamaha C-24 behaves in exactly the same way so it's not exactly freakish.
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Old August 26th, 2013, 01:27 PM   #26
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Re: Ceremony audio - What lengths do you go to?

happened me this weekend gone by, was setting up in a bit of a hurry and i placed a Yamaha C24 on a lectern to record the readings and i could have sworn the red light was blinking away but later when i checked there was nothing on it, kicking myself over it, nobody to blame but myself, should have studied it more, only used it once on a music night out in a pub!!
lucky enough I used a Sony ICDPX333 device on the groom - no issues with this at all, simple to use, one press and it'll record for 40 hours or something. I have the vows which is something and the hotel use a Sennheiser system which allowed my SKM handheld mic to both transmit to my receiver and also transmit to the venue's pa system, so i've got the speeches too. Alls not lost.
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Old August 26th, 2013, 01:41 PM   #27
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Re: Ceremony audio - What lengths do you go to?

Do your players also show the time elapsed when recording? I've taught myself to look for that instead of the red light.
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Old August 26th, 2013, 03:12 PM   #28
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Re: Ceremony audio - What lengths do you go to?

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Originally Posted by Nigel Barker View Post
The Yamaha C-24 behaves in exactly the same way so it's not exactly freakish.
Yep the new Yamaha PR7 does that as well :- ( The Zoom H1 does not - its Levels automatically show as soon as its powered up as do my Senny G3 kits and my various cams do not require a separate step either.

I can see the point with the H4n because the Levels may be showing from its internal mics or an external plug and play mic via the rear 3.5mm socket or anything you've got plugged in to one of its two XLR sockets. But for something as simple as the C24 a two step procedure seems more danger than its worth. There are countless reports of experienced operators getting caught out with the H4n.

And Noa ..... I'm not convinced :- ) :- ) :- )

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Old August 26th, 2013, 03:36 PM   #29
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Re: Ceremony audio - What lengths do you go to?

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And Noa ..... I'm not convinced :- ) :- ) :- )
I don't understand what you are trying to imply, I always double check that my recorders are actually in recording mode, it was only the h4 that randomly refused to save the audio it would record, never happened to my other 3 recorders or with my new tascam. Could be a bad cf card (was still the original one) but as I was in the middle of a wedding season I decided not to take any risk anymore and get the tascam dr40 and test the h4 when I had much more time on my hands, if it would be a bad card then I have a extra audio recorder next season but if that's not the case and if I am able to replicate the error it's going in the garbage bin.
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Old August 26th, 2013, 03:59 PM   #30
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Re: Ceremony audio - What lengths do you go to?

Noa, perhaps the humour doesn't translate. I've missed it, as have many others, even though I always look at the timer counter as well to make sure it is running. Or at least I think I do :- ) Have you never missed setting a locked down b-cam to record even though you could have sworn you did press that damn record button?

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