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Shooting non-repeatable events: weddings, recitals, plays, performances...


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Old September 13th, 2013, 01:56 AM   #16
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Re: USB delivery instead of DVDs?

Everyone makes good points, but ultimately, I think we all agree that DVDs are going to become the new VHS soon enough, maybe within the decade.

With digital files, and standard bundled PC software, most people would be able to make themselves a dvd if they wished.

But someday wanting to rip a dvd when PC's are no longer supplied with DVD-ROM drives, will probably mean going to a specialist who can make a quick buck out of it.

Seriously, look at Lovefilm, Netflix, Apple TV, and a lot of software being electronically downloaded. I'd say its a safe bet, if we don't get off the DVD train now of our own free will, we will be forced off it, and sooner than you might think.
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Old September 13th, 2013, 02:18 AM   #17
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Re: USB delivery instead of DVDs?

The bottom line, whether we like it or not is that while brides do still have DVD players and DVD's are available then IF the bride chooses that form of delivery then we have to be sensible and give the client what she asks for. When we buy a car, the salesman doesn't say "I'll choose the colour " he says "What colour would you like"

Despite the fact that USB might be more convenient for us as authors, the client's choice is still a priority!

I wouldn't like to lose a booking purely because I'm too stubborn to offer DVD's and only supply USB

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Old September 13th, 2013, 02:53 AM   #18
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Re: USB delivery instead of DVDs?

The trouble is that there is not really a customer attractive alternative to dvd. It has been around a long time, younger people have grown up and feel comfortable with it, it's user friendly and even an imbecile can slot one in a player and view it. Best of all it's yours!

USB is a bit of an unknown quantity from a reliability and durability point of view, it is not physically attractive, and can't be personalised in the same way or as easily as a dvd.The same with SD cards.

Downloads are the least attractive to me. Film downloads etc are taking off at a rapid pace, but a large proportion of the population are unable to download those sort of files due to poor internet speeds or non smart tvs. There is also the problem of uploading in the first place. I can't imagine being able to upload a 90 minute+ full HD file from my location in the forseeable future and many other producers must be in the same situation. I have 2000 weddings archived, will I have to pay someone to host my future uploaded weddings for years to come so that a past client will be able to access it, or will the client have to pay for that after paying a lot of money to have it filmed in the first place. What happens when the client visits Aunty Mary in Back of Beyondia where there is no internet connection. What happens when the servers crash and there is no access to the video that the client wants to watch. Lets also not forget the restrictions on data downloads that most people have. No I can't see downloads as a main form of wedding delivery for many years to come.

Those that like to collect and watch movies, often have large collections of dvds which they treasure and I can't see people wanting to have everything stored online, including their wedding video. Until there is a collectible alternative to the dvd, I can see the question of how to supply and store being around for a while.

Roger
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Old September 13th, 2013, 06:38 AM   #19
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Re: USB delivery instead of DVDs?

Hey Roger

Surely from a business point of view it would be unwise to limit the customer options anyway so they suit yourself better?? That's my reasoning .... Imagine going to dinner and being told your steak will be mediun rare ..take it or leave it!! Purely for good business practice you need to offer the easiest option to brides as few are tech related anyway ..they just want to watch their wedding!

By all means offer alternative formats but I think it would be silly to withdraw specified media just because an alternative is easier for you!! A bride who is given options is more likely to book you when she knows she can have a choice of DVD, USB, BD or online delivery and not just one method.

Chris
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Old September 13th, 2013, 06:41 AM   #20
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Re: USB delivery instead of DVDs?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Gunkel View Post
There is also the problem of uploading in the first place. I can't imagine being able to upload a 90 minute+ full HD file from my location in the forseeable future and many other producers must be in the same situation. I have 2000 weddings archived, will I have to pay someone to host my future uploaded weddings for years to come so that a past client will be able to access it, or will the client have to pay for that after paying a lot of money to have it filmed in the first place.
This may be more of a problem for a documentary style shooter, since cinematic weddings tend to be quite a bit shorter. As an idea, you can always just guarantee online availability for x amount of days. After that point it would be archived the exact same way you have it archived now. That way you're not saving 2000 weddings online. Roger, I know you don't put clips online (or at least show them) so this may not work for you, but I think a lot of people already put up cinematic/highlight films anyway so the uploading time wouldn't be a huge deal.

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Originally Posted by Dave Partington View Post
My last event I quoted a price based on electronic (download) only. If they wanted USB it was +50. If they wanted DVD it was +150. Blu-ray was +225. Guess which they opted for? Yup, download only.

They were also very happy because they had it within hours rather than days of us completing the edit.
This is interesting!
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Old September 13th, 2013, 01:31 PM   #21
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Re: USB delivery instead of DVDs?

Chris - I do offer alternatives to clients, everything from usb to sd card even vhs if they really wanted it, but there is no doubt that the most asked for in almost every case is dvd.

Daniel - I uploaded an 80 mb 4 minute clip to dropbox for a commercial client today and it took 52 minutes, so that is the problem I am up against. I have no doubt if I was in the middle of London it would be a lot quicker, but I am not and never will be.

Roger
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Old September 13th, 2013, 02:35 PM   #22
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Re: USB delivery instead of DVDs?

Good point Roger. Living in a larger area I often forget about the speed of uploads. It would be a very long process to get an hour plus uploaded.
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Old September 13th, 2013, 03:34 PM   #23
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Re: USB delivery instead of DVDs?

Dropbox has a very slow upload speed even if you have a fast connection, the upload is slow. Google Drive is the same way, very slow to upload. I find that it takes many hours to upload a full video, but it works in the background and does not slow my computer down noticeably. If I shut down the computer, it reconnects when I start back up and continues it's upload automatically. Just accept that it is a background task and move on with other work. If you don't want it running while you are working, you could do the upload overnight.
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Old September 13th, 2013, 03:42 PM   #24
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Re: USB delivery instead of DVDs?

In Dropbox app preferences you can choose not to limit the upload speed. Still most ISP only talks about downstream speed but never mentioned upstread speed. They are always much slower. It has nothing do with Dropbox or Google drive in such case.
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Old September 13th, 2013, 04:52 PM   #25
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Re: USB delivery instead of DVDs?

I guess I'm lucky. We uploaded a 56 minute film to vimeo and it took around 39 minutes :)
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Old September 13th, 2013, 04:55 PM   #26
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Re: USB delivery instead of DVDs?

The thing is that in my particular situation, the client was only 10 miles away and in the time it took to convert the file, upload it and the client to download, I could have written it to a dvd, driven over with it, viewed it, discussed changes and got back to continue working on it.

I can see the advantages in many scenarios of uploading files, but there are still too many serious limitations to completely go over to an online delivery in my opinion.

Roger
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Old September 14th, 2013, 04:35 AM   #27
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Re: USB delivery instead of DVDs?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Gunkel View Post
The thing is that in my particular situation, the client was only 10 miles away and in the time it took to convert the file, upload it and the client to download, I could have written it to a dvd, driven over with it, viewed it, discussed changes and got back to continue working on it.
That's no comparison at all. Dragging & dropping a file into your Dropbox folder takes seconds of your time & costs nothing. Why care about how long it takes to upload provided it's within reason? I just checked that the most recent wedding highlights that I uploaded was 131MB which would have been under 1.5 hours with your connection. Provided that the upload doesn't take longer than overnight say 10-12 hours then delivery online is perfectly feasible. However full resolution Blu-ray at 20+GB is still not viable.
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Old September 14th, 2013, 05:21 AM   #28
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Re: USB delivery instead of DVDs?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nigel Barker View Post
However full resolution Blu-ray at 20+GB is still not viable.
True, but we are getting there. I've delivered some full HD events via online delivery where there was around 11GB in total. That took a few hours but happened while I was asleep in bed and was all there ready to go when I got up.

Speeds are definitely improving. My son now has 12mb 'upload' (120mb download) and my son-in-law allegedly has 18mb upload, so it won't be too long before uploading 25GB is viable for many more people.

In many other countries, upload speeds are even faster, so while the UK is lagging behind in upload speeds, for many other countries online delivery is definitely something that's becoming viable.
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Old September 14th, 2013, 07:37 AM   #29
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Re: USB delivery instead of DVDs?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nigel Barker View Post
That's no comparison at all. Dragging & dropping a file into your Dropbox folder takes seconds of your time & costs nothing. Why care about how long it takes to upload provided it's within reason? I just checked that the most recent wedding highlights that I uploaded was 131MB which would have been under 1.5 hours with your connection. Provided that the upload doesn't take longer than overnight say 10-12 hours then delivery online is perfectly feasible. However full resolution Blu-ray at 20+GB is still not viable.
I think that it is relative to the circumstances Nigel. In this particular case, once the client had viewed the upload, they still required me to have a meeting to discuss changes and look at some different filming areas. I could have done that all in one trip without having to start working on a different project while waiting for them to get back to me. When working on a complex commercial project, I find it far easier and efficient to continue working on it rather than coming back to it at another time and having to get into the zone again.

As I said before, I can see upload advantages in some instances, but with many areas of upload being slow, we still have a long way to go. Although as you correctly say, you can often get on and work on something else, in my case, I could work on another couple of short projects to upload or want to upgrade my website and find that I am bogged down with an upload queue of possibly many hpurs, when I need quick access.

The internet is great but doesn't hold all the answers yet.

Roger
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Old September 14th, 2013, 08:39 AM   #30
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Re: USB delivery instead of DVDs?

One thing that seriously bothers me about upload/download wedding delivery is this. At the moment, the client pays a considerable sum of money to me to have their wedding videoed. They then receive a dvd with the finished work on it and the deal is complete. I have filmed it, edited and delivered the end product to them.

If the end product is uploaded however, I never actually deliver a finished product to the client. I pay a third party, my ISP, to upload the wedding to the storage facility of a fourth party, whoever I have chosen to host it. I will also be paying them for the service. The ability of my client being able to receive the download is also in the hands of a fifth party, their ISP who they also pay to be able to download it. The client then downloads it onto the storage device of their choice, or simply streams it to view.

There are a number of potential areas of error here that may lead the client to be dissatisfied and over which I have no control:-
1) My ISP may not be able to supply me with an adequate service for upload due to poor signal, a breakdown in their service, maintenance on their servers or a failure of service.
2) I have no control over potential failures or errors with my file hosting service.
3) My client may have difficulties with their ISP preventing them for being able to access their wedding files.
4) I have no control over how my client saves or views their wedding video which could lead to future problems that reflect badly on their appraisal of my service.
5) I have no control over the costs or access now or in the future over any of the intermediaries in the chain, either for me or my client.

As the client is going to view the video that they have paid for at some point, either regularly or occasionally, the safest and most reliable method of delivery, is and always will be, directly to the client in a form that they can immediately view. It may be convenient to have online access as a second string method, but I can never see it as a suitable substitute for a hard copy direct delivery to the client on some form, be it disc, stick or card.

Downloading films, music and games is often quoted as an example of the.way things are going, but online downloading merely gives you access to a widely sold product in a different form. A wedding video is something that the client has paid for you to film, edit and produce and cannot be viewed in the same way as an item for public sale and distribution.

Roger
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