The Music Bed/Songfreedom questions
 

I intend to purchase music from The Music Bed, but am concerned that even with a license my videos can be taken down. Has this happened to anyone, and if so how was it resolved?

I don't want to post a highlight video for a customer to find it's been removed for infringement.

Re: The Music Bed/Songfreedom questions
 

I've found with Music Bed that, even though you have paid for the licence - You Tube recognizes it as 'matched 3rd party content' and will allow it, but the link won't work on mobile devices such as phones and tablets.

Not had a problem with vimeo though.

Pete

Re: The Music Bed/Songfreedom questions
 

Thanks Peter. Your post is extremeley helpful, because I have been considering moving my videos to You Tube, for mobile purposes. Vimeo does not show up on mobile devices always, it's hit and miss, and is a well known issue in their forum.

I'm suddenly without an idea where to take my videos. I will consider Dailymotion, very watchable on mobile devices, but I have no idea how thing happen there when copyright issues arise.

Re: The Music Bed/Songfreedom questions
 

I'm finding a mix of information, Vimeo may not be as problematic on mobile as I first thought. I have more research to do!

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I have been happy with Vimeo. Works fine on mobile devices as far as I have seen. I know it works with iOS devices.

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I tried playing videos from my Vimeo channel today (for the first time) on my Android, it was not a good experience. On the other hand, I previously have played many Youtube videos, always works fine. Dailymotion always perfect. My reading on the subject showed me that Vimeo and mobile often do not play nice. In the Vimeo forums many threads about this issue, it's a bit alarming.

Re: The Music Bed/Songfreedom questions
 

Sorry. Not much a fan of the android OS. I watch videos on Vimeo daily on a iPhone and iPad. Never had a problem. Nice to know that other devices have issues with it.

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I guess it depends what the customer will watch the videos on. Because my customers couldn't watch their videos on their devices, Vimeo lost my company as a customer. I still have the free account, but did not renew the paying account. YouTube works better for my needs. Business is too hard to succeed in to not be customer focused.

As for music licensing, sometimes the YouTube automated scans mess up and you need to follow the dispute process. I think the scan matches wave forms or something like that. Wish it matched meta data so you could just put your licensing information in somewhere.

Re: The Music Bed/Songfreedom questions
 

Byron, personal preference of one smartphone OS vs another is not the topic. Nevertheless, the Apple iOS is on less than 16% of smartphones, and is struggling to hold market share. Android's share of the market is likely over 65% and gaining, at my last reading, so it is essential as professionals we understand which hosting services work for our customers.

The chances of a customer or potential customer being an Android user are what, triple? that of being on an iphone, so if a video sharing site is problematic for Android users, it's a big deal.

What I'm taking from this thread so far is: Songfreedom tunes will trigger a sort of violation that disable smartphone viewing of videos on Youtube. This issue does not exist on Vimeo, but Vimeo's player is hinky on Android.

So, this leaves me with no choices at all. I need to find another solution. I hear dailymotion does digital fingerprinting similar to Youtube, so I'm not sure if the same issue with Smartphones will exist as with Youtube. I will have to create a video and upload it and see what happens.

Re: The Music Bed/Songfreedom questions
 

Is there great royalty free music that does not trigger copyright violations?

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Jeff, the sites mentioned, like theMusicBed.com don't trigger a violation, only a 'matched 3rd party content' notice. That's very different.

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Thanks for clarifying, Robert. The problem remains, unfortunately. How do I provide great music for a video while knowing that my customers can view it on their smartphone? This is of great importance to me. I am having a new website designed.

It's true that this can be adjusted after the final design, but I want to have this ironed out beforehand. This is so my web designer knows what he is supposed to do, and can test it. I don't want him to do spend time figuring out which works, it could incur additional time and charges. Mainly, I just want it to work out of the box, not fuss with it.

Re: The Music Bed/Songfreedom questions
 

Jeff, the matched third party notice isn't just for smart phones. It happens for YouTube in general. It's automated and actually occurs nearly simultaneously during upload to YouTube, probably during that short processing phase between upload and the video being ready for view. When you get the matched third party content notice, just follow the protocol. It happens with all kinds of music, even Smart Sound stuff. You Tube has done a good job, so far at least, whenever it's happened to videos I've uploaded and the notice is quickly taken away.

However, sometimes, the notice will appear again months later on the same video, when other YouTube partners music content gets added to the automated algorithms. I've heard the production companies themselves also have automated programs (spiders?) they run themselves in an effort to protect their intellectual property. I know Stock Footage companies like Getty Images do. However, Stock Footage algorithms tend to be based on metadata. Otherwise, there would be mismatches galore on every photo of the Statue of Liberty or Mount Ranier due to image similarity, like waveform similarities on music.

Do you have any idea how many different versions of say, Tchaikovsky's Swan Lake there are? Several different production houses that have versions of it are now working with YouTube, and even though the licensed version from Smart Sound was cleared after the first upload, I've had to re-clear the same video again due to more production houses getting on board with YouTube. After a while, it might just make sense to ignore the 3rd party notice and leave it up, until a take down is threatened or something. Naturally, a violation notice would be something NOT to ignore.

That's why I normally leave the music out when I upload wedding excerpts to YouTube. Just a minute of the vows, or the kiss, or cutting the cake etc. Too much hassle.

Things are getting more complicated every day. The YouTube algorithms match up anything that's close. It's automated. It doesn't read the text you enter when you upload. When it matches, you either ignore it or follow the protocol YouTube has set up. I wish things were less complicated.

As for the smart phones, that's yet another issue complicating things for us. If our customers can't view their videos, they aren't happy. So we need to do the best we can to please our customers if we want to stay in business.

Sorry to go on like this, but I've found these issues quite aggravating to deal with for the past 4 years. But I've found that the issues aren't going away, so I just do the best I can to rationally deal with them.

Funny thought: What does YouTube do when several different partners all claim to have found a match to their music on the same video? Highest bidder? First come, first serve? I had 3 or 4 different orchestras listed as matched third party content for the Smart Sound Swan Lake that I used in a video, but stretched out over time. I'd hate to be working in YouTube's complaint department dealing with all this.

There's a similar thread going on in the Taking Care of Business section.

Re: The Music Bed/Songfreedom questions
 

Thanks Roger, very helpful. I understand your feelings about this issue. I'm not a fan of the copyright rules, not just because of this situation.

Anyway Roger, when I follow the protocol, is my video with music playable on a smart phone?

Re: The Music Bed/Songfreedom questions
 

Hi Jeff. They should play correctly. YouTube has made a big push towards smart phones. Even the new recent guidelines for the layout for YouTube channels are geared toward everything looking right on computer, tablet, smart phone, and television.

So, I had to spend the time a month or so ago to redesign my company YouTube Channel within those guidelines. YouTube sent an email saying the old look was going away by a certain date about two weeks from the time I received the email.

Keeping the web site and YouTube channel up to date is taking more time than it used to. Wish I could afford to hire someone for it.

Re: The Music Bed/Songfreedom questions
 

Thanks Roger. I was concerned based on Peter's post, but he didn't discuss following protocol either. I am much relieved. I will move ahead with Youtube.

Tell me Roger, what does it take to have a customized Youtube page or a channel? A subscription, extra fees? It's probably much different than Vimeo, where I am currently at.

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Youtube's ID system isn't perfect, but it has to be lived with. It even identified one of our own musical compositions as having a conflict - which it clearly didn't, yet ignored one I was concerned about because of similarities with another work.

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Jeff, it's free to have a YouTube channel, but setting it all up can be tricky with the Google accounts. I was lucky and had set up a YouTube account before I had a GMail account. I named the channel to match the name of my website. Whenever Google wanted me to change log ins to my personal G Mail, I did not, but kept the original ID for my company. It's tricky to keep the name of a separate channel.

Plus, to customize the look, you just follow the guidelines making your background image, which now looks like a header image to me, in Photoshop or image editor of your choice. Here's the help page:
https://support.google.com/youtube/a...en&topic=16630

Now, somehow my YouTube Channel I can log in two ways either as me, Roger, or as True View. But Roger doesn't have the administrative tools, while True View does. Honestly, it took me a lot of trial and error to get my channel set up the way it is. But it didn't cost me a cent.

The channel is really handy for working with my corporate clients. I upload proxies with time code track as Unlisted for them to review. Final versions get uploaded to the client's You Tube channel. I have many more hidden unlisted videos than the visible ones.

It's also very easy to embed videos to my company website. I can do EVERYTHING I was doing on my old pay Vimeo account for free on YouTube. Plus, Vimeo made it hard (practically impossible) to customize the look, and YouTube started being much more flexible. Once YouTube was able to offer the high quality HD, my choice was pretty much made, and I switched over to YouTube. I still have a free Vimeo account, but haven't uploaded anything to it in ages.

Don't get me wrong. I'm definitely not a YouTube fanboy. I hate dealing with big bureaucracies, and Google/YT is huge. But when you get a service that works well for free, it would take a compelling reason to use something different.

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Roger, I agree that free is nice. Since YouTube stepped up their quality, they are a lot more appealing. However, both YouTube and Vimeo has positives. I have used both. YouTube's cost, or lack of, is great. They also now give you a set of choices for the thumbnail, which helps. Vimeo, however lets you pick any frame for the thumbnail, or upload a photograph (which is even better). Vimeo will also embed in your website without using their logo or controls to give you a customized feel, while YouTube will always look like YouTube (not necessarily a bad thing). Finally, Vimeo lets you set what happens after the video finishes. You can have it show your logo, other videos you created, etc. Vimeo has some great strengths, but then again, YouTube is free... That is a pretty heavy strength. Setting it up can take a little time, but it can look nice plus it has that familiar feel since so many people have used YouTube.

Jeff, I didn't mean to offend by including a one sentence opinion of iOS devices. I did think it was good for you to know Vimeo does work on those devices. It is even more important than you realize. I'm not sure where you read the stats from, but you are a lot more likely to have a customer, or potential customer, viewing your videos from an iOS device then you guessed. You should take a look at stats closer to home. I have uploaded some charts showing a much different story in the US. These stats are with a year old iPhone. With the new models coming out, iOS device usage will increase dramatically. You should take them into consideration considering they have sold over half a billon devices and over 300 million have been updated to the current OS (meaning they are still in use).

Re: The Music Bed/Songfreedom questions
 

This one shows smartphone Internet usage.

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Byron, the numbers reported by business publications and technology analysts here are much different, but regardless, Vimeo still does not work well for Android. Vimeo forums are full of people with issues, and when I play vimeo videos I do not like the way they look on my phone, or they way they behave. The play/pause button is almost invisible, the video is cut off at times, things are not right. With embedded videos, the potential problems for mobile viewing are worse.

Vimeo does not create issues with copyright quite as zealously as Youtube, and that's great, but it will do me no good if the videos are not playable to potential customers.

From a business perspective, there is no contest, Youtube is it. Many, many businesses run by people much smarter than me, all use Youtube, and for good reason.

I am a Vimeo plus member. It's a great place for the niche market it serves, but until they get it together for mobile, they are part of the problem rather than part of the solution for me.

Re: The Music Bed/Songfreedom questions
 

YouTube recently upgraded my channel to where I can upload a photo for the thumbnail. Check and see if a little box saying "custom thumbnail" appears while you are uploading. I noticed this yesterday, and used this feature for a beach wedding video.

Agreed. Free is nice. If both were priced equally, it would be hard for me to decide which service to pick. Both are comparable in quality and the "hassle factor." But I'd still probably go with YouTube just because of the number of potential views, not just Android views.

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One thing I really like about vimeo pro (yes it cost money) is that you can put your logo in the bottom right corner of anything that is embedded. It's a great branded tool.

As an example, my trailer below has my logo in the bottom corner. If you click that logo it will go to my webpage.

Re: The Music Bed/Songfreedom questions
 

I use Vimeo and You Tube - Vimeo is great for presenting a professional look but You Tube is better for reaching a wider audience and is better for SEO - one drawback of you tube is you have no control over what is displayed alongside your video - not so nice to have a beautifully shot wedding highlight playing alongside a thumbnail of someone lighting their farts! - Joking aside you will also find recommended highlights from competitors which is not good.

However I've now stated using PremiumBeat for music - all instrumental (some really nice pieces though) but no more 'matched content' issues so can be played on smartphones/tablets etc.

Pete

Re: The Music Bed/Songfreedom questions
 

Peter, I agree, Vimeo just looks nicer. I will check out PremiumBeat, thanks for the suggestion.

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Daniel, my Galaxy S3 will not view your video. This is because it's embedded. There is a message instead that says Chrome for Android does not support this plug in. This is the issue I have with Vimeo.

I agree that the personalization of the Vimeo player is nice, it looks awesome when done nicely as you have done.

Re: The Music Bed/Songfreedom questions
 

It's definitely an issue. I think the way around it is to provide a link as well. If you click on the link you should be able to play it from the vimeo website. That's what happens on my Nexus 4 at least. It's not as elegant for sure, it will be great when that is fixed.

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What's unfortunate about this, Daniel, is that the issue has been with them for so long. Your link idea is a fine idea, of course, but for my new web site that won't do.

$50 a year is not much money, I'd gladly pay $100 if I could use the service.

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You can embed your logo in your video before you upload your video anywhere, Vimeo, YouTube, DropBox. Sometimes I've done it semi-transparent as a watermark. Plus, if you embed the logo before you upload to one site, it's already embedded before you upload to the second, and the third...

However, being able to click on the logo as a link to your site is very handy. That's a really nice feature.

Re: The Music Bed/Songfreedom questions
 

I've been using vimeo pro for awhile, but this year have decided to start uploading to Youtube as well (for SEO purposes, and increasing my Google presence... there are a lot of benefits, but that's not for this thread.)

I've purchased all my music licenses on themusicbed.com so far.

And for every video I post with a purchased license I get a "Matched 3rd party content" notice.

I've just done a test with my youtube videos - 'Acknowledging the 3rd party content' doesn't affect the ability for the video to play on my phone. And there doesn't appear to be any ads on my phone. (There's just text ads that pop up on the computer)

Has anyone tried disputing a "Matched 3rd party content" notice? - I'd be really interested to know!

Re: The Music Bed/Songfreedom questions
 

I found Triplescoop to be a little better license. Either way, I just post stuff to my smugmug site. Wading through facebook/youtube etc and their licenses gives me a headache. So Smugmug was my answer.

Re: The Music Bed/Songfreedom questions
 

I purchased a song off of premiumbeat for a video of mine. It became fairly popular (100,000+ views). I've received probably 10-15 copyright notice emails about it in the past 2 years. I go through their dispute process which is easy enough. I just say it's from premiumbeat and they always remove the notice...but then months later, it'll get flagged again. It's a bit of an nuisance.

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If you go get a smug mug account, use me as a referral, papa needs new shoes! But seriously, I don't find youtube/facebook to be worth it. I don't mind views etc, but unless their booking me contacts, it's not worth it.

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I've gotten one for a song I purchased through Music Bed. Irritated me that I didn't get an email notification. I went through the process and it seems fine for now.