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Old October 8th, 2013, 10:39 PM   #31
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Re: Cinematographer ? what's that ?

Hi Adrian

Yep brides are simple creatures when it comes to technical terms so keywords like wedding video will always score higher than cinematography. However that doesn't mean you can't have it in your name or website ..just let brides hit on simple words rather.

At lot of hits will be "checking out the competition" of course and you will always get more hits from words like "video production" as that covers a huge genre not only weddings.

What really frustrates me is brides (most of them actually!) that, when asked where they found you, say "On the Internet" ... "Uh where on the internet?" "No idea..I was just looking and saw your site"

Not very helpful when deciding what works and what doesn't but I think they do tend to stay with simple terms to find you and from there you can lay it on with the cinematic stuff to impress them!

Chris
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Old October 8th, 2013, 10:56 PM   #32
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Re: Cinematographer ? what's that ?

Chris, you may want to add Google Analytics to your site to see from where traffic is coming and where it goes within your site and how long it stays there. You may be using it already, but if not, I think you may get some answers to "where on the internet".
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Last edited by Tim Lewis; October 9th, 2013 at 02:12 AM.
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Old October 9th, 2013, 01:25 AM   #33
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Re: Cinematographer ? what's that ?

In "google trends" you can compare keywords, interesting to see what triggers the most searches.
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Old October 9th, 2013, 01:33 AM   #34
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Re: Cinematographer ? what's that ?

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Originally Posted by Tim Lewis View Post
you may want to add Google Analytics to your site to see where traffic is coming from
Used that for some years, a very valuable tool to see what traffic comes my way, that way I learned that 75% of all new visits come from facebook.
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Old October 9th, 2013, 02:19 AM   #35
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Re: Cinematographer ? what's that ?

Here are the results of my Google adwords keywords impressions:

wedding video 1,163
wedding videos 832
wedding videographer 55
videography 49
wedding videography 39
videography for wedding 30
wedding videographers 16
videography wedding 14
wedding cinematography 13
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Old October 9th, 2013, 06:03 AM   #36
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Re: Cinematographer ? what's that ?

I also found that "wedding video" outstrips all of them by far soooo....

We are best known then as Wedding Video Producers, regardless of whether we create run of the mill documentary DVD's or earth shattering cinematic masterpieces.

If the bride pulls the case from her stack of mostly unwatched DVD's she is also more than likely to say "Wanna watch my wedding video?"

Seriously guys, does it REALLY matter what you call yourself?? As long as the orders keep coming in I certainly don't mind what I am called.

Chris
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Old October 9th, 2013, 06:54 AM   #37
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Re: Cinematographer ? what's that ?

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Seriously guys, does it REALLY matter what you call yourself??
I think this falls under the same category as the topic started a while back if you should say "we" or "I" when you refer to your company if you work solo, you could also call your company a media production house to make it sound bigger as it is or refer to cinematic to make it sound you provide a much higher level of production. There is no law that would prevent you from calling yourself anything you like, but you will raise high expectations for your clients and won't be able to deliver and this eventually will lead to you going out of business.Brides will complain if they have received something which was not up to their expectations but it won't be the whole industry that will suffer from that but only the person that has worked for them, he will get bashed in wedding fora, I have seen it happen on local wedding fora in my country.
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Old October 9th, 2013, 07:24 AM   #38
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Re: Cinematographer ? what's that ?

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Originally Posted by Tim Lewis View Post
a visual historian.
I like that, nice

it doesn't matter what you call yourself or what the bride calls you - I just think it shows a lack of understanding and a lack of respect of the skills & experience that a cinematographer has.
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Old October 9th, 2013, 07:57 AM   #39
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Re: Cinematographer ? what's that ?

it doesn't matter what you call yourself or what the bride calls you - I just think it shows a lack of understanding and a lack of respect of the skills & experience that a cinematographer has.

To me is seems the same as buying a degree certificate from a phoney university and framing it on your wall :- (

Its a shame the term has been hijacked for marketing purposes. When you are competent with wedding video you are a craftsman, you are not a cinematographer.

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Old October 9th, 2013, 08:05 AM   #40
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Re: Cinematographer ? what's that ?

Hi Pete

+1 to that from me too!! If I call myself something fancy it doesn't mean that my product is better than the guy who "just makes wedding videos"

Sadly advertising and marketing tends to be full of exaggeration to lure the client to you. The problem there is that when you deliver the wedding video and the bride doesn't see it as a cinematic masterpiece then the backlash starts. I would rather be upfront with brides and also I never restrict my samples to my very, very best that was shot last year cos you are unlikely to be able to replicate the effort. If her end product looks as least (or better) than what she has seen of your work then there is never an issue!

I'm a firm believer in not making promises I cannot keep and calling myself a cinematographer is one of them.

Chris
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Old October 9th, 2013, 09:33 AM   #41
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Re: Cinematographer ? what's that ?

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I do know that "cinematography" is not a great thing for wedding marketing. I was doing a bridal expo recently, and noticed at least one couple walking past, reading the sign, and trying to pronounce it, as if it was unfamiliar -- "Cine... cinema... cinematography." Then at least another person say to their friend, "Cinematography. What's that?" And then another person who seemed to be put off by the name, saying to their friend and walking on before I got a word in, "I don't need anything high quality. I just want a basic video. Alex from work can do it." Consider also that the most well-known cinematic video companies don't use the word, but go instead for something like "Films".
You are 100% correct. Everything in your marketing, material, and language should be short and on a 6th grade level and your story illustrates why, perfectly. You want what you say to have an emotional impact so they buy, rather than them having to stop and think about what a word means. For anyone interested in learning more, get the book "Words That Work."

Also, I always thought of cinematographers as the guys who are certified/licensed/whatever and part of a guild.
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Old October 9th, 2013, 11:59 AM   #42
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Re: Cinematographer ? what's that ?

Funny Craigslist ads here in the northeastern part of US. As an example:
Cinematographers needed for upcoming social events, baptisms, sweet 16, private parties, weddings etc.
Must have SOME previous experience shooting with DSLR cameras.
Must be creative, fun, polite, and punctual.

Hmmm.. cinematographer for baptisms..??
I guess videographers are no longer in demand.
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Old October 9th, 2013, 12:35 PM   #43
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Re: Cinematographer ? what's that ?

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Originally Posted by Arthur Gannis View Post
Funny Craigslist ads here in the northeastern part of US. As an example:
Cinematographers needed for upcoming social events, baptisms, sweet 16, private parties, weddings etc.
Must have SOME previous experience shooting with DSLR cameras.
Must be creative, fun, polite, and punctual.

Hmmm.. cinematographer for baptisms..??
I guess videographers are no longer in demand.
The word cinemtographer basically means some one who operates a large sensor camcorder / camera. Can handle manual lenses. Knows how to take large depth of field shots with bokeh etc.

I guess that's what the guy was implying.
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Old October 9th, 2013, 12:47 PM   #44
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Re: Cinematographer? what's that ?

It is fun to read all this. Different perspectives from different countries, different markets. Like I said earlier, your videos should speak for themselves. But it's a business and if you want to ignore google analytics for the sake of a name you want people to call you then you may end up sitting at home while some Videographer is out shooting all the Weddings.
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Old October 9th, 2013, 01:14 PM   #45
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Re: Cinematographer ? what's that ?

Wow! I don’t think anybody here is hanging fake wall paper. This thread started because a VIDEOGRAPHER had to defend himself because the bride was looking for a CINEMATOGRAPHER.

Let’s ask why that happened? Words and terms change constantly. A lexicon evolves and is trendy. Where did the brides perception come from? Our own industry! My opinion….young guns, especially the DSLR crowd. Many of them I have met don’t even consider themselves videographers, it is to low for them. They call themselves film makers. Even if they have never been on a set with more than three paid hands.

Just last week I was on a gig and talking with the other camera operator. Like me, he has been in the industry for many years. Unlike me he is well known, highly respected, and a true master of our craft. The third operator came up and began talking. And did he ever talk, he was a kid straight out of a video certificate school and he knows it all! He handed us his business cards (I think the ink was still wet) and they said Director of Photography on them! He said next week he was making a film. When my friend asked what film he was working on he said, “it is a feature me and a friend are producing”. When he walked away I looked at my friend and we both started laughing. The dumb kid had walked up to two guys with more than 45 years of combined experience in the industry and spent the whole time telling us how great he is! Over the years, I have never worked on a feature film. I have been the camera operator for prime time television shows. I don’t have the gonads or arrogance to call myself a Director of Photography.

Just look at the kids in the video on this thread. That is exactly what I am talking about. They are in their 20s (if that) and they are posting videos DEFINING cinematography. REALLY??? I believe it is that type of thing that gave the bride the impression she needed a cinematographer, even though she does not know what one is.

So…if that is the way the language is trending, I see no reason why you wedding guys can’t use terms like “wedding films” and such.

And..I am not anti youth, just the opposite. I also love to teach, learn, and share knowledge. But some kids are much smarter than me. They already know it all and I am still learning!

End of rant....I know there is at least one other guy here that will understand that post. He is my brotha from a different motha!

Steve
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Last edited by Steven Digges; October 9th, 2013 at 01:51 PM.
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