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Shooting non-repeatable events: weddings, recitals, plays, performances...


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Old November 2nd, 2013, 04:28 AM   #31
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Re: Change to full frame better or same as crop

All the the fanboys seem to reckon that there is nothing to choose between the G6 & GH3 purely on video image quality.
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Old November 2nd, 2013, 04:41 AM   #32
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Re: Change to full frame better or same as crop

I will try to do a comparison asap, I find it important enough for myself to see if that is the case, I have used both cameras at the last few weddings with lumix lenses and it looked fine to me, only in the video shot with my tamrons I was able to pick out the shots from the g6 based on the sharpness difference.
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Old November 2nd, 2013, 05:47 AM   #33
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Re: Change to full frame better or same as crop

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Originally Posted by Steve Bleasdale View Post
Cheers Les & Steve, still edging mark iii 5d, but everyone raving over this rx10 Sony but just found out you have to stick with the one zoom lens on the camera at 2.8 ok but for low light weddings I need that 1.2/1.4
@steve b. ... looks like your thread's been hijacked. yes, you have to plow through all the raving and user reviews to find critical reviews of this stuff. Seems to me all these cameras are capable of taking decent images but looking at the whole package of glass and ergonomics helps you see the breadth of situations the camera can deliver in and how much effort you have to put into getting it. Personally, I found that with a SmallHD DP4 on the 5DM2, getting a good in focus, well exposed shot with great bokeh was like falling off a log. But all that gear, cabling and batteries was a pain for travel. Dropping down to the smaller chip made it easier to travel and setup but traded off ease/speed in getting a great infocus, well exposed shot with nice bokeh. For me it's a b-cam. YMMV ... cheers.
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Old November 2nd, 2013, 06:47 AM   #34
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Re: Change to full frame better or same as crop

Steve have you considered options like the Sony Nex VG30 or VG900? The first is aps-c and the second full frame. The thing is they are both "video" cameras as far as ergonomics go. They can use adaptors so you can use many legacy lenses and have "luxuries" like focus peaking. There seems to be very little feedback on them which makes it hard to judge their suitability but it's good to know all the options available.
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Old November 2nd, 2013, 08:50 AM   #35
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Re: Change to full frame better or same as crop

I have two sony nexcams - the vg20 and ea50 and love them both. Ergonomically video cameras but producing lush dslr type imagery thanks to the large sensors - i use them both with my canon ef lenses as well as the kit lenses they came with. I use a metabones lens adapter - not cheap but gives me an extra stop of light - great for those dim receptions.
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Old November 2nd, 2013, 01:11 PM   #36
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Re: Change to full frame better or same as crop

I"ll link directly to a new post I created so this topic doesn't get sidetracked, in short, my test shows the g6 is softer in 50p compared to 25p and that the gh3 is sharper then the g6. Maybe you can confirm as you have the same camera? But pls use the thread I linked to.

see here:

http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/panasoni...n-25p-50p.html
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Old November 3rd, 2013, 04:52 PM   #37
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Re: Change to full frame better or same as crop

Thanks for all your input guys, busy doing two weddings so sorry for late replies. I think the thing with me is again yesterday I was struggling in low light this time of year. The 60ds with the sigma 30mm 1.4 and 50mm 1.4 where ok but I was still working at over 1600 iso and I like footage at no more than 640 iso. As I see it the 5D mark iii would be great in low light I believe at 3200 iso with a 2.8 lens on. As we all know weddings are stressful and hard and I want to make everything easier. Changing lens on the fly and running and gunning is easier with two cams, one on my monopod and one around my neck to change quickly but with changing lens as well its sometimes a nightmare. Also my other lens have the IS on them so that would be better than the primes. That VG900 and EA50 sound interesting. Peter would you swap the vg900 for the mark iii or is it as good, what about focus on the vg900? Is it auto focus like a camcorder but gives the dslr look? Low light good? steve
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Old November 3rd, 2013, 07:00 PM   #38
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Re: Change to full frame better or same as crop

Hi Steve

I feel for you! I'm up to my eyeballs in weddings too as November is our real busy month!

The EA-50 with the APSC sensor does a pretty good job and yes, it focusses just like a video camera plus you have the added advantage of the camera having touch focus on the LCD screen so wedding especially with one static camera is a cinch as you can simply touch the brides dress and the cam will lock onto that distance and stay there! The EA-50 focus can sometimes be a tiny bit slow when I use my 2nd camera on my shoulder doing zoomed cutaways at a crowded wedding but on average it's pretty darn good and a great asset in the chaos of a wedding ceremony. Of course tracking the bride coming down the aisle is absolutely perfect and accurate.

I would assume that the 900 would have much the same focus system so that should work well too.

Chris
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Old November 4th, 2013, 04:50 AM   #39
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Re: Change to full frame better or same as crop

Nobody has mentioned the 6D. It is cheaper than the mark ii whilst being superior in terms of high ISO. Perhaps its slightly worse with moire, but its not a huge problem IMO.

Also, crops are handy to have around you. You can use the crop to your benefit by gaining extra reach.

I think we may be in danger of getting carried away with the idea of constant 2.8 zooms. Some of you will know that I have first hand experience of this lately having owned a Panasonic Lumix FZ200 2.8 24-600mm for a grand total of 48 hours.

Instead I bought a Sigma 17-70mm 2.8-4 and put it on my spare 550D giving me a decent reach of 26-105mm. Which I think fits my needs adequately.

I've also seen some of the RX10 clips by Gordon Laing and tbh, If you don't need to shoot all the way at 200mm, I'd say you would get better quality footage on the combo I've mentioned above.

What is the equivalent I wonder - would 2.8 on the RX10's sensor, be comparable to 3.5 on an APS-C?

I'm just guessing.
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Old November 4th, 2013, 07:44 AM   #40
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Re: Change to full frame better or same as crop

Cheers Chris & Clive, How big is the ea50 Chris? I don't really like a big cam on my shoulder as I am now used to the 60ds and hfg25 on my monopods? Seems to be the way for me as most of my shots are less than 6 seconds, apart from the ceremony speeches and a lot of close ups and various quick angles. Clive the 6d is out for me as the moire I have heard is horrendous.
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Old November 4th, 2013, 07:52 AM   #41
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Re: Change to full frame better or same as crop

Chris what lens do you use in general in daylight and for running gunning? What lens do you change to for low light? What ISO are you working at very low light? Image stabilization? Are you using a monopod with it or just on your shoulder? Are you working at f2.8 during the day, I like to work at that aperture for nice bokeh, how do you cope with no ND filter, do you just up the shutter speed? steve
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Old November 4th, 2013, 08:19 AM   #42
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Re: Change to full frame better or same as crop

Hi Steve

The EA50 can be a shoulder mount camera or a handheld as the shoulder pad extends out on rails.
With the pad in the body is 280mm long ..with it out 420mm ..a lot bigger than a DSLR but it's very stable on your shoulder so I only shoot either tripod or on shoulder without any monopod. I actually bought both cameras mainly for the form factor as I wanted a DSLR/interchangeable lens camera BUT still wanted an SM camera too ..I simply cannot shoot handheld with DSLR's (I have two Nikons and only use them for stills)

Run 'n Gun I use the stock lens which is 18-200 F3.5-F6.8 and yep it has NO ND's so if you want shallow DOF in bright sunshine you have to go manual and really push the shutter speed OR use a variable ND filter. At receptions I use a Tamron 17-50 Constant F2.8 on one camera (usually on the tripod for speeches) and often my 11-16 F2.8 Tokina for close up work ... even with a manual lens the EA-50 is intelligent enough to see a manual lens and will control shutter and ISO for you!!

I also use the 18-200 at receptions and that still works very well. I tend to limit my gain/ISO to 2500 as I get a crisp noise free image but it is usable higher up too. The only advantage of the stock lens is that it's fully auto if you need it and auto focus is good (especially with long aisles!) and you have the power zoom option too. The camera has a supposedly lossless 2X digital zoom for manual lenses but the image (I think) does go slightly soft at full DZ ) Big advantages for me are the best XLR audio system I have ever used (from whisper quiet ceremonies to 5 piece rock bands at reception I have never had bad audio!) The focus peaking is pure magic as well..3 peaking colours and 3 levels so MF is a breeze and the touch focus on the LCD is deadly accurate with the stock lens ..just touch the bride's dress and it locks on!!

I was a Panasonic user for 23 years and jumped ship to Sony purely due to the EA-50 but then again it's not for everyone ..it's the only camera I have ever bought (and I have bought plenty!) that I seriously find difficult to find fault with! It has everything that Panasonic left out and I always wished for....!

However I might be biased ..but that's my honest opinion...wouldn't swop them for anything that's currently on the market!

Chris
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Old November 4th, 2013, 11:33 AM   #43
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Re: Change to full frame better or same as crop

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bleasdale View Post
Chris what lens do you use in general in daylight and for running gunning? What lens do you change to for low light? What ISO are you working at very low light? Image stabilization? Are you using a monopod with it or just on your shoulder? Are you working at f2.8 during the day, I like to work at that aperture for nice bokeh, how do you cope with no ND filter, do you just up the shutter speed? steve
Hi Steve - I use the kit lens for daylight run and gun which is fast enough at f3.5 - 5.6 with Xume quick release system for my variable ND filter. On a bright day I can get nice bokeh with the kit lens. For low light ceremonies/evening receptions I use a Canon 24-105mm which goes down to f2.8 with my metabones adapter and for speeches always use my Canon 70-200 f2.8 which lets me get out of the guests way. I limit the gain at 24db which is borderline acceptable IMO
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Old November 4th, 2013, 01:13 PM   #44
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Re: Change to full frame better or same as crop

i have been using either a Sony NX5 or PMW 200 for speeches with a light, but think next time i'll try out my 5D mk III with a 70 - 200 mm, good idea about not standing in front of people too.
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Old November 4th, 2013, 04:17 PM   #45
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Re: Change to full frame better or same as crop

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Originally Posted by Chris Harding View Post
Hi Steve

The EA50 can be a shoulder mount camera or a handheld as the shoulder pad extends out on rails.
With the pad in the body is 280mm long ..with it out 420mm ..a lot bigger than a DSLR but it's very stable on your shoulder so I only shoot either tripod or on shoulder without any monopod. I actually bought both cameras mainly for the form factor as I wanted a DSLR/interchangeable lens camera BUT still wanted an SM camera too ..I simply cannot shoot handheld with DSLR's (I have two Nikons and only use them for stills)

Run 'n Gun I use the stock lens which is 18-200 F3.5-F6.8 and yep it has NO ND's so if you want shallow DOF in bright sunshine you have to go manual and really push the shutter speed OR use a variable ND filter. At receptions I use a Tamron 17-50 Constant F2.8 on one camera (usually on the tripod for speeches) and often my 11-16 F2.8 Tokina for close up work ... even with a manual lens the EA-50 is intelligent enough to see a manual lens and will control shutter and ISO for you!!

I also use the 18-200 at receptions and that still works very well. I tend to limit my gain/ISO to 2500 as I get a crisp noise free image but it is usable higher up too. The only advantage of the stock lens is that it's fully auto if you need it and auto focus is good (especially with long aisles!) and you have the power zoom option too. The camera has a supposedly lossless 2X digital zoom for manual lenses but the image (I think) does go slightly soft at full DZ ) Big advantages for me are the best XLR audio system I have ever used (from whisper quiet ceremonies to 5 piece rock bands at reception I have never had bad audio!) The focus peaking is pure magic as well..3 peaking colours and 3 levels so MF is a breeze and the touch focus on the LCD is deadly accurate with the stock lens ..just touch the bride's dress and it locks on!!

I was a Panasonic user for 23 years and jumped ship to Sony purely due to the EA-50 but then again it's not for everyone ..it's the only camera I have ever bought (and I have bought plenty!) that I seriously find difficult to find fault with! It has everything that Panasonic left out and I always wished for....!

However I might be biased ..but that's my honest opinion...wouldn't swop them for anything that's currently on the market!

Chris
Thanks for that input Chris superb, cheers
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