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Wedding / Event Videography Techniques
Shooting non-repeatable events: weddings, recitals, plays, performances...


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Old November 4th, 2013, 04:24 PM   #46
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Re: Change to full frame better or same as crop

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Hi Steve - I use the kit lens for daylight run and gun which is fast enough at f3.5 - 5.6 with Xume quick release system for my variable ND filter. On a bright day I can get nice bokeh with the kit lens. For low light ceremonies/evening receptions I use a Canon 24-105mm which goes down to f2.8 with my metabones adapter and for speeches always use my Canon 70-200 f2.8 which lets me get out of the guests way. I limit the gain at 24db which is borderline acceptable IMO
Cheers Pete brilliant, I am tying it all down to a 5d mark iii, a gh3 but will need better lens than the 12-35 2.8. Sony ea50, Vg900, maybe just maybe something like the rx10 will do me but I am slowly but surely siding to the 5d simply for the low light i always need. I can get one probably in February for 1700 body then get a vc tamron 24-70 instead of the canon with no is,which will replace my 17-55 on the 60d. swap my 50-150 sigma 2.8 (amazing) for the sigma 70-200 2.8 os. for the full frame, that gives me a nice hfg25 camcorder the 60d and a 5d mark iii with all lens fitting the crop and full frame. Watch ya think. Steve
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Old November 5th, 2013, 04:39 AM   #47
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Re: Change to full frame better or same as crop

I've just got the Tamron 24-70 canon fit which goes down to f1.8 with my metabones adapter - half the price of the canon and nice stabilisation too - it's a heavy little thing and expensive but will come in handy when the lights go down. The only thing is the zoom ring rotates in the opposite way to canon lenses but I'm ok with that. I've only used it at one wedding but it's nice and sharp - no different from my 24-105 in terms of image quality - worth it for the extra speed though - I would love to ditch my on-camera light and this lens goes some way to doing that for me.

I have a 5DIII that I do bring out when it's really dark but i film everything full HD so the lack of 50p bothers me - it just seems too jittery compared to my NEXCAMS 50p - especially if you want to slow it down!
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Old November 5th, 2013, 09:47 AM   #48
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Re: Change to full frame better or same as crop

Ha thanks Pete, I did think about the 50p but I rarely do slow mo, if I do its with the glidecam and hfg25 at 50i which is smooth. The Tamron a good shout, I cant believe canon have not got a 2.8 with is??
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Old November 6th, 2013, 11:09 AM   #49
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Re: Change to full frame better or same as crop

Actually Canon do an EF-S Lens - 17-55mm IS USM but it's for crop sensor cameras - I'm using full frame lenses on my EA50 - Don't know why the EF short 2.8 zooms have no IS though!
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Old November 6th, 2013, 12:24 PM   #50
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Re: Change to full frame better or same as crop

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Actually Canon do an EF-S Lens - 17-55mm IS USM but it's for crop sensor cameras - I'm using full frame lenses on my EA50 - Don't know why the EF short 2.8 zooms have no IS though!
For the same reason as prime lenses in the 24mm to 70mm range don't have IS because you don't really need it for still photography at those focal lengths.
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Old November 6th, 2013, 01:02 PM   #51
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Re: Change to full frame better or same as crop

Steve B, are any of the above going to earn you more money? Thats what I mean by revolutionary v. incremental / evolutionary. that must always be the acid test when shooting to pay the mortgage v. shooting as an enthusiast.

Seems to me that we are at a point right now where great things are bubbling up but not quite arrived.

If you fancy playing with some latest releases during the quiet season thats fine - I'm sure we all love doing that.

But if your current gear performs adequately I would hold fire.

Its sobering to remember that many brides are not even fussed whether their final product is SD or HD and request HD simply because its whats expected or its what was pushed at them in marketing!

Pete
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Old November 6th, 2013, 02:07 PM   #52
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Re: Change to full frame better or same as crop

Peter do you know you are quite correct! In seven years I have had just one query? guess what I was using a dslr all day and she did not like the out of focus bit behind at her guests hahaha. I did explain it was the film look bokeh and she said what's that. So yes it may be me as a mad lunatic forking out more money that I do not need to do. I do have four weddings left in the darkest areas and times so will just use a light cheers for bringing me down to earth.....
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Old November 6th, 2013, 03:22 PM   #53
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Re: Change to full frame better or same as crop

We all know half the skill of being a wedding videographer is the practical side of things. Most of my purchases are based on how to best get everything I should in the most efficient way. Actual video quality is secondary to that (only to an extent of course!).
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Old November 6th, 2013, 06:22 PM   #54
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Re: Change to full frame better or same as crop

Hi Steve

Most of us here are guys and, as you know, most guys are tech-heads and simply cannot resist getting something newer/better/faster

Our current gear does a great job and really doesn't need to be changed BUT we like to get new toys. Seriously I have also had just one pre-wedding question from a couple wanting to know if I shot in SD or HD in 10 years and never, ever has a bride asked me for a BluRay copy of their wedding.

Technically I could still be shooting in SD still on 5 year old cameras BUT I'm like everyone else and when a new camera comes out I want it!!

It's hard to control our desires sometimes because we take our cameras personally even though they are just a business tool! OK, I will hold off any new cams until at least mid 2015 I think as I bought my latest Sony's just 8 months ago

Chris
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Old November 6th, 2013, 08:10 PM   #55
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Re: Change to full frame better or same as crop

Almost every couple I had this year demanded I make the copies in Blu-Ray discs. That's the first thing they ask before they even sign the contract. I even had 2 clients for next year asking for UHD possibilities. I would have lost a lot of sales if I just even mention DVD's as the only option. Blu-Ray is the magic word for them. I just want to see what will happen when UHD televisions and broadcast standards will be the norm.
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Old November 7th, 2013, 02:02 AM   #56
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Re: Change to full frame better or same as crop

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I just want to see what will happen when UHD televisions and broadcast standards will be the norm.
That will take another few years for this to be the norm in households and even then you can still supply a 1080p file and they will still love it. A lot of people also have 3d tv's what also was going to be the next big thing yet nobody is asking for it, if someone specifically would ask for a 4k recording then they have to find a videographer that does this but they can only hope he doesn't suck, but at least the image will be sharp. :) I think we videographers are the only ones that pixelpeep and worry about resolution and dynamic range, a client only gets slapped around the ears with so many marketing terms telling them it's what they need to get, yet they are happy with their 200 dollar camera shooting at a 7mbs avchd they can connect to their Triluminos-display, X-Reality PRO, basreflex-soundspeaker and NFC One-touch mirroring Motionflow XR 600 Hz tv so they can watch their holiday movies where they use the digital zoom handheld all the time.
When they then see our 1080p wedding video they will be surprised :)
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Old November 7th, 2013, 03:58 AM   #57
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Re: Change to full frame better or same as crop

[QUOTE=Chris Harding;1819618]Hi Steve

Most of us here are guys and, as you know, most guys are tech-heads and simply cannot resist getting something newer/better/faster

Our current gear does a great job and really doesn't need to be changed BUT we like to get new toys. Seriously I have also had just one pre-wedding question from a couple wanting to know if I shot in SD or HD in 10 years and never, ever has a bride asked me for a BluRay copy of their wedding.

Technically I could still be shooting in SD still on 5 year old cameras BUT I'm like everyone else and when a new camera comes out I want it!!

It's hard to control our desires sometimes because we take our cameras personally even though they are just a business tool! OK, I will hold off any new cams until at least mid 2015 I think as I bought my latest Sony's just 8 months ago

Spot on Chris, I don't think I have burned a BluRay in 4 years.. I agree we as men have our toys, just wish my wife saw it that way.. haha
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Old November 7th, 2013, 11:43 AM   #58
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Re: Change to full frame better or same as crop

I never really understood why people liked full frame so much for video. Cropped sensor is what high end digital film cameras like the Red Epic, Arri Alexa, and Sony F55 have. Super 35mm film cameras are not full frame either. I can understand someone saying, "The 5D Mark III is really good in low light, so that's why I want it," but not someone saying, "The 5D is full frame, so that's why I want it." I realize that you can achieve shallower depth of field with full frame, but cropped sensor with fast prime lenses will generally get one all the shallowness they'd need. I shoot with a C100 which produces a better image than any full frame camera out there (perhaps only rivaled by 5D Mark III RAW hack), which is one reason I don't see any advantage to full frame.

When I'm on Glidecam, having a deeper depth of field makes it easier to keep things in focus. I'd say a 1.5-6 crop finds a nice balance between not having too shallow of a depth of field, while also having a shallow enough depth of field to make things look nice. Another thing that bothers me with full frame is that often on a 70-200 at 200mm it's not tight enough of a shot for vows, while with a cropped sensor it generally is.
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Old November 7th, 2013, 12:41 PM   #59
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Re: Change to full frame better or same as crop

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I never really understood why people liked full frame so much for video. Cropped sensor is what high end digital film cameras like the Red Epic, Arri Alexa, and Sony F55 have. Super 35mm film cameras are not full frame either. I can understand someone saying, "The 5D Mark III is really good in low light, so that's why I want it," but not someone saying, "The 5D is full frame, so that's why I want it." I realize that you can achieve shallower depth of field with full frame, but cropped sensor with fast prime lenses will generally get one all the shallowness they'd need.
They would say they want a full frame camera because of shallow DOF, or because a full frame camera is generally about two f/stops better in low light. We shoot weddings and use both, because each has advantages. So we decided we wanted a pair of full frames, then went and found what was right for us. And that is apart from the fact that at similar price points, the full frame will have less noise than crop factors (for instance, I can get a gently used 5d Mark ii or a 70D for around $1100. I recall seeing a chart showing the ISO noise as comparable at 70D IS0900 versus 5Dii ISO1600).

The full frame at f/2.8 would be about the same as the crop factor at f/1.8, OR, in a really dark room, let me keep the ISO at 2500 and shoot at f/1.8 where the crop factor, I'd have to push the ISO into some really noisy levels.

During the ceremony, when the light isn't such a problem, the crop factor let's our 200mm f/4 shoot a great, tight shot of the bride or groom's face and still be a respectful distance away. So we also have a pair of crop factors to use, too.
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Old November 7th, 2013, 01:06 PM   #60
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Re: Change to full frame better or same as crop

Full frame is for low light, on a crop a 30mm 1.4 or 50mm 1.4 are decent but the way I work gunning on a monopod I want full frame because I can then get a 24-70 tamron with Vc. Canon does not do apart from 35mm f2 I want stabilization. So the ISO can go to 6400 and with a 2.8 lens will be very good rather than shaky footage at 1.4. Don't want to use lights simples!!
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