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Shooting non-repeatable events: weddings, recitals, plays, performances...


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Old August 6th, 2014, 09:02 PM   #31
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Re: Did it really need two?

Forgive me - I've posted this image before on this forum. I took it at a wedding where I was a guest. It seems pretty relevant to this thread as well.

Can anyone find the B&G, MOH, Best Man at at the head table lol?
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Old August 7th, 2014, 02:11 AM   #32
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Re: Did it really need two?

Mike,

My favorite part of your photo is the female guest in the foreground trying her best to take a cell phone photo/video anyway.
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Old August 7th, 2014, 03:38 AM   #33
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Re: Did it really need two?

Some of you guys need to let go of your security blankets. Grow up and let your own professional work hold it's own and not worry about the model number on a "guests camera".

If your that worried that you think you should tell a guest with a 5D MKlll that he should "move on" your probably not worth your rate. He might be the brother of the groom for all you know. Be a Professional, in the way you act and what you deliver.

Sorry children, I have never made a post this brutal before, but it is what I wanted to say!

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Old August 7th, 2014, 03:57 AM   #34
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Re: Did it really need two?

Often it's hard to deliver professional results if you have uncles and aunts standing between your camera and the couple holding their iphone to shoot the same what you are shooting, just last wedding a aunt of the bride walks up to the table where the groom was giving his speech to film that with her iphone, right in front of my camera which was positioned a few meters further back on a spot where no guests view were blocked. I had to run to her telling she had to move and that incident made me miss a full 30 seconds of the openingsspeech, during that speech the bride had flowers as gift for her parents and bridesmaids which where delivered by the groom so I use a handheld camera to follow the groom, who is walking right in front of me following the groom to shoot the exact same thing? Right, the brides aunt! She again get's in my way because she is older and doesn't move that fast and when the groom walks up to the second person that get flowers I get tired of it and push the aunt gently aside as she was standing in the best spot. After that speech her aunt gives me a deadly look all the time but I don't care :)
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Old August 7th, 2014, 06:12 AM   #35
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Re: Did it really need two?

I've booked a wedding next year where the father and brother of the bride run their own wedding film business and will be filming around me as I do my job! If they get in my so be it - my terms and conditions point out that I am not liable for any shots missed due to blockage from guests etc. They actually asked if I'd supply them with the raw footage but got a resounding NO!

Should be an interesting day

Pete
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Old August 7th, 2014, 06:21 AM   #36
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Re: Did it really need two?

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Some of you guys need to let go of your security blankets. Grow up and let your own professional work hold it's own and not worry about the model number on a "guests camera".

If your that worried that you think you should tell a guest with a 5D MKlll that he should "move on" your probably not worth your rate. He might be the brother of the groom for all you know. Be a Professional, in the way you act and what you deliver.

Sorry children, I have never made a post this brutal before, but it is what I wanted to say!

Steve
I take it you don't film weddings and stick to corporate stuff?

It has nothing to do with security blankets.

If your brother, uncle, aunt or whatever is planning on bringing a professional camera along and taking the same shots as the professional. DO NOT BOOK ME. I don't work like that. I expect to be told prior to booking that the guests will be bringing professional equipment too.

It's already a nightmare getting shots along with the iPhone brigade but now hobbyists think they're cute bringing their professional cameras too.
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Old August 7th, 2014, 06:30 AM   #37
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Re: Did it really need two?

Get ready for a headache Pete.
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Old August 7th, 2014, 07:02 AM   #38
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Re: Did it really need two?

I have a photog I work with that tries to convince brides to have an unplugged wedding ..ie: no cameras at the ceremony or reception but I'm not too sure how successful he has been. We have a few Churches who forbid guests to take any photos or videos at the ceremony which is great!!!

Pete I don't envy you ..they will be taking all the prime spots and there will be nothing you can do about it as blood is thicker than water!! Why are they filming anyway ..surely as family they either let you do it or they do it ... I had an enthusiastic amateur at a wedding last year with his 5DII shooting video and blocking both myself and the photogs. He said that he had permission to film and was the groom's best friend ..when we asked him if he was getting paid he said no so we both said "In that case, push off, we are getting paid ..go film somewhere else" He moved a bit but still was a pain.

You must let us know all your comments after the wedding Pete?? There is only one way to do this scenario ..either "worry like hell and struggle" or "couldn't care less" ...They will soon see themselves blocking shots and the daughter will not be happy ...I think I would explain that three's a crowd and there will be blocked shots and then take the "couldn't care less" option. I think a good idea here would be a GoPro high up on a stand to get the entire ceremony without being blocked.

Chris
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Old August 7th, 2014, 08:26 AM   #39
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Re: Did it really need two?

Chris the reason I'm not too bothered is that it's a nice big spacious venue I've filmed in many times before. They are going to film some candid footage during the day but mainly they want to film the evening reception as I'm only staying until first dance and they really want later evening dancing filming but didn't want to pay the extra for me to stay.

I'll post my thoughts after the event ;)
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Old August 7th, 2014, 01:31 PM   #40
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Re: Did it really need two?

Hi Steven,

As James mentioned, most of the time it has nothing to do with security blankets. Here's an image from a recent wedding I did - photog in the aisle, iPhone guest in the aisle to the right, iPhone guest in the aisle to the left, Bride and Dad in window in the middle.

I, for one, like the clutter most of the time. It lends excitement to the shot, drama, and energy. That's how it happened that day - everyone wanted a picture of the bride and she's the center of attention. She'll probably love seeing this. I don't know that for a fact, but I'm guessing. And there really isn't much I can do. I shoot as is.

But I also have to think, "oh crap if either of these ladies with the phones move I've just lost my shot" and "what if the B&G don't understand why I didn't get more of her walk up the aisle?". I've actually had that before and got a bad review from a bride solely based on the fact that I missed a little wave they did to their guests once the bride reached the altar. And the review came even after I explained in an email why I missed the shot - I was moving my main cam from the front of the aisle so I wouldn't be in the way, and my side cams weren't centered on the end of the aisle because those cams were focused on the area where the B&G were going to be standing once the actual ceremony begin. So the wave was out of shot for each camera.

So thoughts like this are always in the back of a lot of our minds while we're shooting. It's why we get a little agitated when camera-guests start moving around. I take it with a grain of salt - my style is to film as things happen spontaneously - but it can get under my skin from time to time because I want to do the best possible job, and get the best possible shots for my clients. That's being pro.
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Old August 7th, 2014, 01:58 PM   #41
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Re: Did it really need two?

Quote:
Originally Posted by James Manford View Post
I take it you don't film weddings and stick to corporate stuff?

It has nothing to do with security blankets.

If your brother, uncle, aunt or whatever is planning on bringing a professional camera along and taking the same shots as the professional. DO NOT BOOK ME. I don't work like that. I expect to be told prior to booking that the guests will be bringing professional equipment too.

It's already a nightmare getting shots along with the iPhone brigade but now hobbyists think they're cute bringing their professional cameras too.
James, this is not aimed at you, just a general response with my own thoughts that not everyone will agree with, and that's OK.

Professionals need to hold their own with what ever gear you have and not worry about what anyone else is using. It's the shots you get not the gear you use, at least that's the theory ;)

Consumer gear is getting better all the time and the difference between pro and consumer is becoming more and more blurred. Example, lots of consumer cameras can shoot 50p but my C100 can't. Which is better, especially for slo-mo?

Would it be better to have someone with a 1Dx or D4 that was courteous and considerate or someone with an iPad that was constantly getting in the way? It's not the gear, is the person using it.

If they aren't in my shot, or dragging the attention away from my camera I don't care. If they take the same shot over my shoulder, so be it. They could do that with a P&S or an iPad and still get a great shot if they know how to use it properly.

They could also have it on YouTube / Facebook etc before the B&G even sit down to eat and there's absolutely nothing I can do about that, so I just get on with what I'm being paid to do and no worry about what other people are doing.

For sure it can lessen the impact of my shots if the B&G have already seen something similar, but then there's more to it than just getting the shot, it's about how you edit / grade etc and how the entire thing comes together. If a guest has a couple of great shots then good luck to them, but in the end they won't have the overall production that we have.

If they step out in to the isle while the bride walks down, hey, it happened, and guess what, I have the proof right there on the video and what was I supposed to do? Taser them?

I've always told my clients that I can't control what their guests do, so they have the option of asking them to stay out of the way or accept that occasionally (more and more) our shot gets blocked because Vicar won't allow us to move around in the same way guests can. It's also covered in the contract.

Would we all prefer to shoot weddings where the family & friends don't bring cameras, phones, iPads etc? Of course! But I'd like to drive on open roads instead of being in traffic, and be able to park right where I want to.

It's how life is now and it's only going to get worse, so learn to deal with it or find something else to excite you :)
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Old August 7th, 2014, 03:44 PM   #42
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Re: Did it really need two?

With all due respect to Steven.... it's NOT the model # of the camera that is an issue, it's the number of cameras or camera equipped devices that is the issue...

ANYONE can buy a "fancy" pro camera, no laws against that, but it does NOT make them a "pro"... conversely a "pro" can shoot with a cheap camera and know how to get stunning results (anyone recall some pro stuff shot on a "Brownie"?).

I think the cell/tablet cameras are far worse, since now EVERYONE and their dog has one, and so feels obligated to "document" their lives in pictures/video, probably at least secretly in hopes of catching the next viral sensation...

Of course it does not help to be shooting any "event" while competing with a scrum of paparazzi wannabes competing for "the shot", regardless of what they are shooting with.


Image quality of even "cheap" devices is only getting better, but actually getting usable shots... nailing framing, composition, lighting, those things will always be an art/craft... and NOTHING will give a camera equipped dog "the eye" for the shot...
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Old August 7th, 2014, 04:59 PM   #43
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Re: Did it really need two?

Gentleman, I have “corresponded” with many of you for quite some time on this forum. Am I opinionated, yes, but I play by the rules and generally am not condescending. The tone of my last post was out of character for me but I meant what I said.

For James to say that if a guest is going to show up with professional level equipment they better not book him is ridiculous to me. I cannot sugar coat my words about what I think of that kind of attitude enough to be appropriate here.

I agree with what Dave P. and Dave B. said. The stuff is out there in all kinds of formats and the people shooting with them come in many different models too. It IS part your wedding shooters world. No, I don’t do weddings. But I am in no way exempt from it either. In over twenty five years of shooting I have covered everything from international sporting events, to broadcast television shows, to corporate meetings and interviews. I know a little bit about being a working professional. Being a professional videographer means we must deal with the enthusiast aspect of image making. What does Aunt Betty and Uncle Bob want? They want to take a picture of their own of someone they are there to honor on their wedding day. Big Deal! My abrasive post was sparked because I read almost everything you guys write. I respect what you do. But here is the caveat, quite honestly some of you guys have tone of your own that makes it sound as though Uncle Bob is Darth Vader walking in and his 5D is a light saber he brought to destroy you with. Uncle Bob is not your enemy and Aunt Betty’s I-phone can’t hurt you either unless your work sucks. That is the real underlying issue for “some” of you guys. When you’re worried about their “pro level gear” you’re really worried that they are going to show you up. Be a professional and do your job. They are not your enemy. In fact, what do many of them want from you? They want to pick your brain and talk about gear most of the time. You are the guy earning money doing what the enthusiast loves to do. They want to talk to you, not hurt you. Get over this ridiculous idea that “I better be the only one there with pro level gear”. Seriously? Really? How you could possibly even think that is beyond me. And, if you are a pro, you should be able to shoot better with an i-pad than Uncle Bob and his 5D anyway.

Steve
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Old August 7th, 2014, 05:25 PM   #44
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Re: Did it really need two?

I can't say other people filming really bothers me. I had a Wedding recently, where 2 guys had a handycam; filming the Ceremony and Speeches amongst other things. They never got in my shots and were no trouble at all. You've got to wonder about the point of filming Speeches when I'm doing it, but given they're holding a handycam up by hand, set on wide, whilst I've got 3 cameras, 1 on wide, 1 on the Bride and Groom and 1 on the person speaking, proper audio and all carefully edited for maximum impact, their footage is only going to make the Bride and Groom see the value in what I'm doing, not detract from it.
It's easy for a guest to take some great random photos of the day, but for a guest to do really great video, there's more to it. Great editing for one thing. I have a Guestcam service; the footage I get is a different take on the day, a compliment to my video; but hardly a replacement.
Really if any Guest wants to take it upon themselves to film the Wedding Day to the standards I set myself, they must be bloody mad; I'm getting paid for it and even I think I'm mad trying to cram in as much as I do.
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Old August 8th, 2014, 02:41 PM   #45
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Re: Did it really need two?

theres a lot of interesting points in these posts, I suppose people can feel a bit under threat if someone who hasn't been hired arrives on with superior equipment than them, this could apply to various aspects of the event not just imaging!
I did a wedding recently where from the back of the venue, i saw was a young girl holding aloft a ten inch tablet among the sea of iphones, pads phones and various screens etc. which seemed to catch my attention more than the others.
So I zoomed into it a bit and rack focused between the screen and the couple which created a different. effect, so i was using the environment i found myself in rather than fighting it.

But if people walk in front of your camera(s) - the client should be advised that this is a possibility prior to the event, and is more than often outside your control.
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