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Old December 13th, 2013, 11:29 PM   #1
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Switching from Vegas to Premiere Pro CC

Should I?

Some of the features look great! Do I need the hassle of re-learning?
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Old December 14th, 2013, 01:31 AM   #2
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Re: Switching from Vegas to Premiere Pro CC

Do you like a stable platform? Then yes. I am currently finishing up my last Vegas project. Prior to that I worked on FCP 7, and liked it a lot. But Apple has lost my vote of confidence for FCPX, though I also still run Pr on both Mac and Windows. (I find I prefer Mac). Since I have turned off my Nvidia graphics card on my W7 machine, Vegas is stable. That's just not acceptable to have to rely on my processor for watching preview windows operate smoothly. My projects, over the last year on Pr have been absolutely rock solid. The integration between products and the overall professionalism of the suite for filmmakers is great. Are there shortcomings? Yes. Vegas is the easiest product to work with but it's inability to get, after four revisions, a stable platform for production use, is unacceptable. On the same machine, I can run Pr and AE all day long without one crash. I cannot do the same for one hour with the same nvidea drivers on Vegas 10, 11 or 12, latest version. Sony has a QA problem and needs to get it fixed. I've been a big fan of the simplicity of Vegas, but time and patience is up. Go for it, but treat yourself to some decent training videos and give yourself some time. Pr is a harder product to learn. But it's worth it. I'm cutting four camera multicam on it. Also, make sure you have 16GBs of RAM in your machine. Pr does not like 8 for HD productions.
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Old December 14th, 2013, 05:33 AM   #3
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Re: Switching from Vegas to Premiere Pro CC

Premiere Pro is a good platform, especially if you ever want to be able to swap between Windows and Mac.

Adobe have significantly improved some of the workflow through better integration with Speedgrade. The export times for native footage are not too bad as long as you're only using GPU accelerated effects. Once you deviate from that, such as using anything from Magic Bullet or even the Broadcast Safe filters your render / export times increase dramatically.

What I don't care for in Premiere Pro is it's sticking to the old out of date bin system, where a clip can only be in one bin and unless you know where it is you're screwed. The key wording and search features are not that great, compared to newer products like FCPX.


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Originally Posted by Al Bergstein View Post
But Apple has lost my vote of confidence for FCPX
Anyone who tried early versions of FCPX and dismissed it needs to go back and spend a few days with the current (or soon to be new) version because it's a very serious piece of software, and perpetuating the old ideas about the original launch (just like the first couple of revs of Premiere Pro, FCP1 etc etc) are simply outdated and wrong.

We ran FCP7 on a Mac, then to Premiere Pro because we wanted native editing and FCPX wasn't up to scratch when first released. Since then we acquired some windows PCs and continued with Premiere Pro (CS5, then 5.5 then 6). However, we've since dumped the windows PCs and are exclusively Mac again, running almost all projects through FCPX in preference to Premiere Pro since we save several hours on each project, even over Premiere Pro!

--- The Adobe Problem ---
If you're NEW to Adobe and Premiere Pro then the CC is probably a great idea. You get a lotos software for almost no money up front. However, Adobe seriously pi55ed me off because I'd spent real money to buy the entire suite only to be told no more upgrades unless you rent them like everyone else who has not yet spent any money with Adobe. If they'd done a CS7 upgrade they would have had my money but making me rent something I already bought a perpetual license for, just so I can get a couple of new features here and there is not on. So, be warned, Adobe doesn't care about the customer, not a lot, not a little, not at all.

They could totally stop developing a program (Soundbooth and Encore are prime examples) and no matter how many thousands you'd already paid, you'd still have to rent it at full price (as if it were an actively developed product) in order to keep using it. I'm simply not going to play that game.

Having said all that, if you're new to it and looking for great software with a low cost of entry and don't mind the perpetual rental model then Adobe CC is right up there with the best.
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Last edited by Dave Partington; December 14th, 2013 at 08:23 AM.
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Old December 14th, 2013, 08:27 AM   #4
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Re: Switching from Vegas to Premiere Pro CC

Hi Clive

I have been with Vegas since Version 4 and I use it simple cos it was the only software that I could start from scratch and use it without wading thru manuals and help files!! So I kept using it!!

I have currently stayed with Version 10 E and it works hard and is stable as anything.

I tried Adobe and when I saw that the manual needed could fill a bookcase I dumped it!! Yep, like Dave I would not support a company that screws you at all. I know they make great software but I really have never liked their attitude and support so I never even use the famous photoshop!!

Seriously, use what you enjoy using! I was given a free copy of Edius with my Panny cameras a few years back..tried it and struggled with it and went back to Vegas !

I think NLE's are much like cars! It's a personal choice!

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Old December 14th, 2013, 09:48 AM   #5
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Re: Switching from Vegas to Premiere Pro CC

I have used (and still do) both Vegas and Premiere. They are both great editors and if you're comfortable with one, i see no reason to switch. Personally, I love premiere for it's rendering and the fact that it just feels slightly more refined than Vegas in it's implementation, but one can't deny that cutting in vegas is faster and more flexible. I have yet to edit on a timeline that feels as fluid as Vegas's.

In terms of features, Vegas has some that premiere doesn't and vice versa

So, at the end of the day, neither is superior to the other and I would say just use whatever you're comfortable with.
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Old December 14th, 2013, 11:02 AM   #6
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Re: Switching from Vegas to Premiere Pro CC

Dave, I certainly wasn't saying FCPX isn't capable. I am sure there are thousands of working pros using it daily to cut serious products. I'm a small shop. Apple (and Sony) are huge companies and FCP and Vegas are rounding errors on their books. They could choose to kill it anytime. I can't wake up one morning and read that my vendor has abandoned a core professional product with no upgrade path (still really isn't, is there?). I have been asked by clients to update videos shot two years back at times. (I can still do it, but there are all sorts of discussions about when FCP 7 won't run). Adobe has one focus, professional folks like us in the graphic arts photography and film worlds. If they screw that up, they die. I think the angst over the cloud model is out of proportion to the problem. Adobe has given me, for $21 a month, essentially *all* their products to use as long as I pay them. That seems like a much better deal than I had from them before, and better than Vegas, which charges me for their sound editing software, and still forces me to Adobe for something like After Effects. New Blue Titler is still a buggy piece of software on Vegas *on the same machine where it runs fine on Pr.*. So Adobe products, for me, have been rock solid. The earlier ones, like CS5.5 and 6 that I bought, still run fine. And I can still make DVDs on Encore, from the output of the new CC. I know Adobe isn't going to wake up and tell me my investment in their products is null and void. If I don't pay them, I can't edit them, but if I choose to pay them again down the road, I can. It doesn't seem like a show stopper, or a reason to use FCPX. These are not minor points, they represent why you choose a vendor when you are a pro in any industry.

As to Vegas, yes, it's wonderfully easy to use. I've run 9, 10, 11 and 12. And you can run it on a Mac I hear, if you use Boot Camp or one of the virtual machines. I intend to try that out so I can get rid of my Windows machine at some point, and use one computer for both. I know I might need to go back and edit some of those projects again at some point. But I will not pay for upgrades that continually have serious bugs that crash the machine or force me to disable major functionality to work.
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Old December 14th, 2013, 11:43 AM   #7
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Re: Switching from Vegas to Premiere Pro CC

Why not try the 30-day trial? It's fully functional unlike CS5/CS6 trials which were missing key CODECs for some reason to do with licensing.

There are 100+ fantastic tutorial videos online that will get you up to speed. They are delivered by an English guy called Andrew Devis

[link to non-sponsor commercial site removed]

Andrew has also done some good After Effects tutorials [link to non-sponsor commercial site removed]

Coincidentally enough Andrew's latest project seems to be to produce tutorials for Sony Vegas Pro
[link to non-sponsor commercial site removed]

Now if only Andrew could be weaned off Windows PCs & give us some FCP X tutorials...

Last edited by Pete Bauer; December 14th, 2013 at 12:38 PM. Reason: Commercial non-sponsor links removed
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Old December 14th, 2013, 12:47 PM   #8
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Re: Switching from Vegas to Premiere Pro CC

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Originally Posted by Al Bergstein View Post
Adobe has given me, for $21 a month, essentially *all* their products to use as long as I pay them.
Are you sure it's $21 a month for as long as you continue to pay?

For me, having already given them more than $3,500 over the years they offered me a 1 year discount in the rental model. Then it was going to be almost 47 a month, which is $77+. So pray tell us how did you manage to lock in $21 a month for life?
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Old December 14th, 2013, 01:37 PM   #9
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Re: Switching from Vegas to Premiere Pro CC

I'm unsure if it's "for life". I just paid them $21 USD and have been since June, so I know what I pay. Now I signed up back in June, as an owner of Pr CS6, I believe, and maybe there was a discount (for US customers?) that no longer applies, or might not a year or so from now. But even at $77.00 that's only $924.00 a year which again, includes essentially all of their suite, not just Pr. That still seems like a bargain to me, and the money doesn't have to go out all at once, but over time. So, essentially, I can *earn* the suite if you consider the old pricing model, while I work. Again, while I no longer own it, I frankly have boxes of old software from the last decade that I no longer use and are worth, other than to me, nothing. Yes, I could still use them, and I could still use CS 5.5. But equipment changes and prior to that, there were formats that didn't even work with Pr.

Adobe has also updated the software since July1, and there were a lot bug fixes and also feature set additions. Again, if my monthly subscription brings those faster, I'm ok with that.

If they raise the prices too high, I will bail. But that's the competitive marketplace. Not sure why you folks are paying so much more, unless it's expensive to rent a clipper ship to send the bits to you..(G).
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Old December 14th, 2013, 02:20 PM   #10
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Re: Switching from Vegas to Premiere Pro CC

Sounds to me like you're on the CS6 one year only discount plan then you'll be up to full price like everyone else.

The additional cost is something else that really irks. Adobe charge more for delivering the same product from essentially the same servers. There are no transportation costs, it's all in the cloud.

In terms of cost, I paid around 300 ($495) to upgrade a perpetual license each year, and now they're wanting almost double that just to rent it for 12 months with no ongoing license thereafter and you still get to pay double again and again and again with no guarantees the price won't rise each and every year.

An Adobe rep called me a couple of weeks back trying to talk me in to taking a CC subscription. We got talking about how he sounded pretty down and he said they were coming up against a lot of resistance from previously loyal customers because of the effective price hike and loss of perpetual license. He had been unable to persuade *anyone* to go CC that day (and this was late afternoon).

As I said, if you're starting out from scratch then CC could seem like a good deal and if you're the kind of person who never needs to open old projects then renting temporary access to your own files isn't such a big deal.
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Old December 15th, 2013, 02:25 AM   #11
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Re: Switching from Vegas to Premiere Pro CC

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Sounds to me like you're on the CS6 one year only discount plan then you'll be up to full price like everyone else.
Probably so. It still seems like a better deal than before.

The additional cost is something else that really irks. Adobe charge more for delivering the same product from essentially the same servers. There are no transportation costs, it's all in the cloud.

True..

In terms of cost, I paid around 300 ($495) to upgrade a perpetual license each year, and now they're wanting almost double that just to rent it for 12 months with no ongoing license thereafter and you still get to pay double again and again and again with no guarantees the price won't rise each and every year.

But they added all the rest of their stuff. I get AE Lr, and photoshop at that price! Prices needto be competitive with others or folks will switch.

An Adobe rep called me a couple of weeks back trying to talk me in to taking a CC subscription. We got talking about how he sounded pretty down and he said they were coming up against a lot of resistance from previously loyal customers because of the effective price hike and loss of perpetual license. He had been unable to persuade *anyone* to go CC that day (and this was late afternoon).

He needs sales training.

As I said, if you're starting out from scratch then CC could seem like a good deal and if you're the kind of person who never needs to open old projects then renting temporary access to your own files isn't such a big deal.
I open old projects a lot.as i said, i have worked with 5.5 6.0 and CC. I have no problems yet with their pricing.
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Old December 15th, 2013, 04:05 AM   #12
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Re: Switching from Vegas to Premiere Pro CC

I edit on Vegas & Premiere, I've tried to switch to Premiere exclusively on many occasions however if you've been on Vegas for a while it's very hard to make the switch. If Premiere adopted the free flowing hassle free creative timeline Vegas offers I'd switch in a heartbeat but until then it's Vegas for me. Now although I do the majority of my editing in Vegas I am heavily dependant on Adobe CC, I use Media Encoder to transcode my renders, Encore to build my DVD/Blu-rays, Audition for audio restoration, Photoshop for artwork & lastly Premiere for warp stabilizations & final touches to my exported projects from Vegas.

Don't be fooled in thinking Premiere is more stable, mine crashes about as much as Vegas does, software will always have bugs. If you can mentally make the switch to Premiere then do it but if you are use to the Vegas timeline Premiere is frustratingly slow & boxed in. Also remember that Vegas has amazing scripting tools like Excalibur & Vegasaur which makes it powerful software.

Needless to say Adobe CC is worth every cent, you'd be wise to learn both platforms as Adobe is the industry standard. Both Vegas & Premiere is great so I use both.
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Old December 15th, 2013, 06:14 AM   #13
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Re: Switching from Vegas to Premiere Pro CC

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I open old projects a lot.as i said, i have worked with 5.5 6.0 and CC. I have no problems yet with their pricing.
Awesome. Long may you continue to be happy.

In five years time, you'll still be able to open all your older CS5.5. and 6 projects because you have a perpetual license.

However, if in five years time, having paid them another $4K or more in 'rent' you decide to stop paying, you'll still be able to open all your 5.5 and 6 projects (assuming you didn't make the mistake of upgrading them to CC) using your perpetual license, but you won't be able to open anything created in CC, even things created just the week before, because unless you continue to rent, you'll be locked out. And that is what I struggle with. So if opening older projects IS something you do regularly then be careful. One day you may not be able to.
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Old December 15th, 2013, 10:34 AM   #14
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Re: Switching from Vegas to Premiere Pro CC

I agree with you Dave. No upgrade for me at present, The CC has failed to tempt me over, and if its stays as a rent only system, I think it will be a very long time before it does.
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Old December 15th, 2013, 01:51 PM   #15
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Re: Switching from Vegas to Premiere Pro CC

Nickolas: FWIW, as mentioned, as to stability, using Pr and Vegas *on the same Win7 box*, I have to turn off the use of my Nvidia card in Vegas (10, 11, 12) in order to gain stability, using the NVidia drivers that Sony specifies. That is not true of Pr (5.5, 6.0 and CC) nor have I had any significant problems, though I did have one project that ended up having a corrupt index. One. I'm no expert, but I've now completed, maybe 40 projects on Pr, maybe more, I've lost count. I've done maybe 100 or 150 on Vegas, and I agree it's very fast and fluid, when it works. If it worked like Pr I would never have even been tempted to leave it. I have also used Vegas on at least four high end laptops, 8 to 16 GBs RAM and fast hard drives, and all of them, regardless of single monitor or dual, all of them would crash especially when I was adding effects. I've bought various recommended cards, with no relief. Reproduceable crashes, especially with New Blue effects, which let's be real, is their recommended titling program. I've got an extensive background testing beta versions of software in my past, and can tell you I fully understand when I see reproducible bugs in software. I have routinely taken the time to send those crash dumps to Sony, and assume some of them were incorporated into the updates. Yes, Adobe has bugs, just look at the latest list of Pr update *today*, but their ability to get these bugs fixed quickly, and staff the people on the various boards is impressive and part of what I'm paying for. I've only seen John Rofano on the Vegas boards. (speaking of a Vegas insider, not just a customer). John is Vegas' best asset. But even he seems to be migrating projects, from things he's written about. I don't think I've ever had a Vegas tech support person answer one post on any of the various boards I track. I could be wrong, but that's my impression.

My guess is that Vegas was optimized for SD production, and has struggled since then to adopt to the huge number of various codecs and third party graphics cards. Rofano himself said, as Vegas rolled out 3rd party graphics card support "Be careful what you wish for". I don't think that was an offhand remark.

All this goes into making the decision to switch NLE's which is not trivial. I've spent an huge amount of billeable time on Vegas. If the OP is happy on Vegas, and it's not crashing, I agree that he should hang in there. Learning both is great if he has the money and time.
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