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Old March 3rd, 2014, 02:06 AM   #31
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Re: Cinevate Duzi slider and a tripod under 500 to go with it?

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Originally Posted by Noa Put View Post
Eventhough the plate from my sachtler ace is twice as long as the plate of my manfrotto 501hdv I can exchange and use both plates on both tripodheads.
That's good to know Noa, thanks. When I looked at them at the show they looked different enough and the rep said they were incompatible. I trust you more than him ;)
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Old March 3rd, 2014, 04:29 PM   #32
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Re: Cinevate Duzi slider and a tripod under 500 to go with it?

That sounds great! So given that I'll be able to interchange the two, will I only need a connection for the slider to sit on the Sachtler?

Thanks for all your help, buying both now.

Cheers.
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Old March 3rd, 2014, 04:34 PM   #33
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Re: Cinevate Duzi slider and a tripod under 500 to go with it?

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Originally Posted by Craig McKenna View Post
That sounds great! So given that I'll be able to interchange the two, will I only need a connection for the slider to sit on the Sachtler?

Thanks for all your help, buying both now.

Cheers.
That certainly sounds like it.
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Old March 3rd, 2014, 05:54 PM   #34
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Re: Cinevate Duzi slider and a tripod under 500 to go with it?

Hallelujah! Thank you! I will purchase a connector now.. is there one for the Ace? Or should I just get the Manfrotto?

I've finished my purchases for this wedding... I am now broke ha. Thank you to all of you for the help.

I go to the venue on Saturday, and then it will take place at Easter. Can't wait to shoot it and return with my video.

Thank you again.
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Old March 6th, 2014, 01:29 PM   #35
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Re: Cinevate Duzi slider and a tripod under 500 to go with it?

Hey,

So the Sachtler arrived and I love it! Thanks for the recommendation! The slider too, creates some amazing shots... Although I won't over-use it on the day!

As for mounting it onto the tripod, I don't understand how a 577 plate will help, it looks just like a way to add another quick release plate onto the original quick release plate??? :/

The Duzi has a baseplate with lots of different mounts, so does anyone know how to mount it to a tripod? I've searched on YouTube and people are detaching ball heads, but I want to mount to a ball head, rather than the tripod directly!

I'll try to spin it onto the head when I get home, as this may be a simple fix. But I'm just asking now so that hopefully someone will have replied by the time I get back.

Thank you again for all your help!

Craig
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Old March 6th, 2014, 01:37 PM   #36
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Re: Cinevate Duzi slider and a tripod under 500 to go with it?

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Originally Posted by Craig McKenna View Post
Hey,
As for mounting it onto the tripod, I don't understand how a 577 plate will help, it looks just like a way to add another quick release plate onto the original quick release plate??? :/
Craig
Until Noah said the plates were compatible, that's what you were going to have to do.... mount the 577 on the Sacthler QR plate in order to use the Manfrotto plates everywhere, but since they are compatible then you don't need the 577, you just needed the QR plate that comes with it (and can be bought separately) as I mentioned above (and again here)

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Manfrotto-50.../dp/B0017U0BRE

You attach (screw) the Manrtotto QR plate (not the 577 base) to the bottom of the slider and then it will mount on to your Sachtler head like like your camera does. You then put your camera on the slider. Effectively the slider is sitting between your camera and head and can be removed quickly be releasing the plate.
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Old March 6th, 2014, 04:22 PM   #37
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Re: Cinevate Duzi slider and a tripod under 500 to go with it?

Thank you Dave, if we meet at a conference in the future as I decide to become a full time videographer, I will buy you a pint. Really appreciate the help you have given me.

The plate looks exactly the same as the one I have already though, and I tried to attach it to the Duzi and it did so fine. The problem comes when the feet try to slide onto the tripod and hit the locking levers. Bit of a pain, looks as though I'll need to raise the Duzi a good few inches to avoid doing this.

*edit* or you can just remove the feet lol. Done! Thanks!!

And now I realise why I need another QR plate too. Cheers. Sorry for being so slow.
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Old April 7th, 2014, 12:29 PM   #38
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Re: Cinevate Duzi slider and a tripod under 500 to go with it?

Hi All,

I'm gearing up to shoot the wedding next week... I've got a week and a bit now to prep! I'm currently re-watching tutorials and ensuring my gear is sorted.

For those interested, I've ended up with:

Bodies / Camcorders: GH3, EM-5, X800
Lenses: 12mm f2, 25mm f1.4, 45mm f1.8 and 75mm f1.8 primes from Olympus / Panasonic and a 12-50mm kit lens. (All M4/3 so Crop Factor x2).
Batteries: 3 batteries for the GH3, 2 batteries for the OM-D and X800.
SD cards: 1x 64GB, 6x 32GB, 1x 16GB cards
Additional accessories:
Z-Finder pro 2.5x magnifier for GH3
Sachtler Ace Tripod
Manfrotto Video Monopod
Cinevate Duzi Slider (with additional Manfrotto head)

Question #1: Looking at my kit, do you think I have enough cards / batteries?

As I'm delivering a music video, there's no need for audio.

However, the groom has hinted that it would be amazing to remember the speeches (I'll just create an option on the DVD / provide them with an additional video file). The bride isn't interested in any audio from the day, but she's got no issue with a tabletop mic for the speeches.

Question #2: Which audio tabletop solution for 100 would you consider? I can go over-budget if necessary...

I'm considering an Olympus voice recorder... I think I could use a tabletop mic stand and perhaps their stereo mic to place inside, such as the Olympus ME-51S Stereo Microphone?

Alternatively, I know the Shure SM58 is supposed to be a good mic, but which recorder could I pair it with that would be reasonably cheap? I would prefer not to have such a large mic, as I think the Bride will kick up a fuss.. she basically doesn't want to see ANY audio recording equipment. That's not why I've been asked to do the wedding, photos are their primary interest.

I'm unsure, with my lack of knowledge with regards to microphones / recorders, which is the best option to go with... I could always hook up my OM-D and an on-board mic if necessary (but I don't own one, I'm guessing I'd spring for a ROde)... I'd like your recommendations if possible though please?

Thanks for all of your help thus far, I can't wait to deliver something to the couple.. I've been practising with their song and it is looking decent... (using a girl I'm seeing as my model). I'm just trying to balance my shots between static shots of bride / location shots / b roll (tripod and monopod) and shots with movement (monopod and slider).

Looking at storytelling theory too.

Question #3: How many shots would you say on an average wedding day would be static shots, compared with shots with movement? Are most of your shots static for a wedding? Or a balance between the two? How do you feel movement affects the storytelling? Do you use it to put something across to your audience, or is it there for other reasons?

As their main preference is photography, I don't want to bring my own lighting systems... they're getting the best I can with natural light and my primes / bumping ISO. I've spoken to the venue and they're going to keep the lighting a little brighter during the dances for me also. Bonus!

The venue itself has loads of windows, which should be great for natural light too.

Question #4: Given that I'm making no money from this video, and I'm an amateur, is it okay to post my video here when I've completed it? It will contain their favourite song, which is why I'm aware that if I was making money, potentially I would be breaking the law by posting it? As I'm not making any money, am I allowed to post??? If not, I might make a second video using a licensed song.

Thanks again for all your help!!!
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Old April 7th, 2014, 05:12 PM   #39
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Re: Cinevate Duzi slider and a tripod under 500 to go with it?

Sounds to me like you're gearing up for some fun :)

I haven't gone back and read everything already written in this thread (it's been a while), so forgive me if some of this is repeated.

BTW - how did the christening go?

Weddings....
Batteries & cards would be my main concern. We usually turn up to weddings with at least 5 or 6 hours of battery per camera (we have lots of batteries!). If in doubt, take your chargers and get the first battery on charge as soon as it's flat so that it's recharged for when the next one runs out. Nothing worse than batteries and cards running out. Speeches are the time you'll be sweating most since those can be short or really long.

For cards it's hard to know since I don't have your camera types. Noa and others will be able to chime in more, but I'd expect to have 4 hours of cards for each camera if possible. You shouldn't need that much, but better to be safe than sorry.

Audio recorders / microphones..... well, how many people are going to be giving speeches and where are they going to be located? Each country / area of tradition can be different. Here the speeches are typically Father of the Bride (sat on the Bride's left), the Groom (sat on the Bride's right) and Best Man, usually at one or other end of the 'top' table usually to the far right of the groom (far left when looking from the room).

However, I understand that in other countries the speeches are completely different, don't include the groom but do include the bridesmaid / maid of honour etc. So find that out.

Will they all go to a podium to speak? It's very rare here, but apparently the norm in many places. If so, you can get away with one mic at the podium, but if they are speaking from their positions at the table (which is far more common here) then chances are you'll need at least two (one in front of the bride to share between Father and Groom) and one at the other end for the best man. We like to place at least one mic in front of each of them where possible and you can generally hide a small recorder in the flowers that are typically in the centre of the top table (so the bride won't be looking at a mic).

Will they be using an in-house (or DJ provided) PA system? If so this can be either a blessing (good audio) or a curse (bad audio and/or echo). Sometimes placing a mic (the SM58 is good for this) in front of one of the speakers will get you the audio you need, but then when one of the people decide they're not going to use the in-house mic then you're screwed and you'll which you'd placed them on the table.

If there are more speeches then consider more mics. It's tough to know all this ahead of time so having spares helps, but since this isn't a paying gig it's hard to justify.

Personally, I wouldn't be using large mics like the SM58. We have a couple but they aren't good for speeches unless they are being hand held fairly close to the mouth. Smaller recorders like the Zoom H1 are great, but some one, I think it was Roger Gunkel posted a recommendation for these: Sony ICDPX333.CE7 4GB PX Series MP3 Digital Voice IC Recorder: Amazon.co.uk: Office Products I have no personal experience of them but a couple of others thought they were good too.

If it's just for memories then a shotgun on one of the cameras could work, but on camera mics are pretty lousy for this sort of thing.

Static vs moving.... that's a personal choice and very often down to the surroundings and the people. Do what you think is best and enjoy it. Be cautious of concentrating too much on getting one kind of shot perfectly, get a variety where possible.

As for windows.... that can work for you or against you. Lots of windows are great if they are behind you or even to the side, but when you're shooting in to the windows then you can end up with a choice of massively over exposing the window in order to get the couple bright enough, losing quality around the edges of people because of sensor overload, or you start under exposing and cause yourself grief in post.

Some venues think it's fun to stand the couple right in front of a large window where it's light, but it can cause havoc if you're stood at the front looking back in to a darker room. Others think it's nice to have the couple against a 'feature' like a dark fireplace and you're really scratching around for light! Without knowing the layout, where the windows are and where the couple will be stood (or places for speeches) it's really hard to know if lots of windows is good or bad, especially if the sun is going in and out all the time.

Also, try to get good audio during the ceremony too. While the Bride doesn't care about audio now, one day she might, and putting together something with audio of the views and/or rings can make a huge difference, even if it's just for you to play with when practising editing.
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Old April 7th, 2014, 06:27 PM   #40
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Re: Cinevate Duzi slider and a tripod under 500 to go with it?

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Originally Posted by Dave Partington View Post
Sounds to me like you're gearing up for some fun :)

I haven't gone back and read everything already written in this thread (it's been a while), so forgive me if some of this is repeated.

BTW - how did the christening go?

Weddings....
Batteries & cards would be my main concern. We usually turn up to weddings with at least 5 or 6 hours of battery per camera (we have lots of batteries!). If in doubt, take your chargers and get the first battery on charge as soon as it's flat so that it's recharged for when the next one runs out. Nothing worse than batteries and cards running out. Speeches are the time you'll be sweating most since those can be short or really long.

For cards it's hard to know since I don't have your camera types. Noa and others will be able to chime in more, but I'd expect to have 4 hours of cards for each camera if possible. You shouldn't need that much, but better to be safe than sorry.

Audio recorders / microphones..... well, how many people are going to be giving speeches and where are they going to be located? Each country / area of tradition can be different. Here the speeches are typically Father of the Bride (sat on the Bride's left), the Groom (sat on the Bride's right) and Best Man, usually at one or other end of the 'top' table usually to the far right of the groom (far left when looking from the room).

However, I understand that in other countries the speeches are completely different, don't include the groom but do include the bridesmaid / maid of honour etc. So find that out.

Will they all go to a podium to speak? It's very rare here, but apparently the norm in many places. If so, you can get away with one mic at the podium, but if they are speaking from their positions at the table (which is far more common here) then chances are you'll need at least two (one in front of the bride to share between Father and Groom) and one at the other end for the best man. We like to place at least one mic in front of each of them where possible and you can generally hide a small recorder in the flowers that are typically in the centre of the top table (so the bride won't be looking at a mic).

Will they be using an in-house (or DJ provided) PA system? If so this can be either a blessing (good audio) or a curse (bad audio and/or echo). Sometimes placing a mic (the SM58 is good for this) in front of one of the speakers will get you the audio you need, but then when one of the people decide they're not going to use the in-house mic then you're screwed and you'll which you'd placed them on the table.

If there are more speeches then consider more mics. It's tough to know all this ahead of time so having spares helps, but since this isn't a paying gig it's hard to justify.

Personally, I wouldn't be using large mics like the SM58. We have a couple but they aren't good for speeches unless they are being hand held fairly close to the mouth. Smaller recorders like the Zoom H1 are great, but some one, I think it was Roger Gunkel posted a recommendation for these: Sony ICDPX333.CE7 4GB PX Series MP3 Digital Voice IC Recorder: Amazon.co.uk: Office Products I have no personal experience of them but a couple of others thought they were good too.

If it's just for memories then a shotgun on one of the cameras could work, but on camera mics are pretty lousy for this sort of thing.

Static vs moving.... that's a personal choice and very often down to the surroundings and the people. Do what you think is best and enjoy it. Be cautious of concentrating too much on getting one kind of shot perfectly, get a variety where possible.

As for windows.... that can work for you or against you. Lots of windows are great if they are behind you or even to the side, but when you're shooting in to the windows then you can end up with a choice of massively over exposing the window in order to get the couple bright enough, losing quality around the edges of people because of sensor overload, or you start under exposing and cause yourself grief in post.

Some venues think it's fun to stand the couple right in front of a large window where it's light, but it can cause havoc if you're stood at the front looking back in to a darker room. Others think it's nice to have the couple against a 'feature' like a dark fireplace and you're really scratching around for light! Without knowing the layout, where the windows are and where the couple will be stood (or places for speeches) it's really hard to know if lots of windows is good or bad, especially if the sun is going in and out all the time.

Also, try to get good audio during the ceremony too. While the Bride doesn't care about audio now, one day she might, and putting together something with audio of the views and/or rings can make a huge difference, even if it's just for you to play with when practising editing.
Thanks Dave, amazing advice (as always!)

I'm definitely gearing up for some fun... I'm really excited... because it's a chance to be creative with fairly limitless options (I have no requirements other than shooting a close to four minute video, shooting in B&W with a highlight filter (which will be minimal due to personal taste) and potentially shooting a long video of everyone, which will be sped up in post to produce ten seconds of everyone having a fun time, which will either make or not make the final cut... depending upon her thoughts as to my final delivery (forced to add, or not... as she really liked this one particular video and I don't really want to copy the style... especially considering that his exposure was largely under-exposed for most of the video and the things that worked will be fairly obviously copied to her friendship circle).

Other than these requirements, I am free to shoot as I please and potentially, this could lead to a new career... one that wouldn't require sixteen hour long days for seven weeks continuously, followed by a break... I can't keep up with the teaching lifestyle anymore, but won't say much else given the real name basis of the forum... I understand editing and the days shooting are long, but I honestly think the nature of a 30 day wedding year versus a 200+ days worth of teaching year, is greatly advantageous given that teaching requires perhaps, more hours and performing, whereas I'll enjoy the editing hours...

No problem... and the Christening has yet to come, it will be on Sunday... I'm considering recording it, but I think my brother is more interested in using me as a photographer... also, my mum wants me to teach her how to use her camcorder for those precious family moments... given my research and growing familiarity with DSLR style shooting, I don't feel the need to set up everything on that day... in fact, I'm considering doing the gardening set up tomorrow instead... but I think syncing isn't really a problem anymore, as I only need to provide a four minute video... given that there's no audio to be synced and no video that will likely follow for such a limited period of time, I think it's overkill. Like you say later in your post, I'm hoping to provide many different angles to everything that's occurring as much as possible. That'll allow me to use 1-2 second clips in the edit and produce a memorable video (hopefully). So I won't worry too much about capturing video on Sunday... I'm more so interested in making sure that my brother has some memories as photographs... as that's his main interest.

Thanks Dave, I may spring for another battery for the GH3 and another for the OM-D. Otherwise, I think I'm set... I'm sure that I have enough cards, although I will check...

Hmmm, I'm fairly certain it's the father of the bride, groom and best man for this wedding's speeches too... finger's crossed it is only those three, but there will be no podium... which likely means I'll have to string for a few different audio recorders... those for 35 might do the trick... I might invest in two of those and hide one for the wedding vows as you say... although I think she will NEVER want the audio, as she seems pretty set on not wanting any of her voice in the video... it'll be interesting to see how much video she lets me shoot as well on the day, as I get the feeling she might just want me to video five minutes of each different part of the day... do you find any brides are like this? Or are they happy to be filmed all day??? I realise shooting with a 50mm lens in your face is less than optimal for your special day... but the footage captured could be amazing... and especially in the preps in the morning, I want to shoot as much as possible to ensure I have as much as I need to create a compelling visual montage...

Generally speaking, will a small voice recorder pick up their voices reasonably well without an external mic?

Hmmm yes, I'm unsure about the PA system, and from what people state about them... I'm unsure if I want to go that route... also seems to require more expensive equipment, given the cost of two 35 voice recorders vs the Shure mic and Zoom.

Yeah, considering it's not a paying gig and I've paid out thousands, I think they can just appreciate what I have lol. But I would like to still be able to provide them with good sound of the speeches, even if it's just for the groom's benefit.

Thanks... it was really interesting for me to place some footage I captured of the girl I'm dating for two minutes... the shots looked really good (monopod moving from an out of focus area into a focused area on the eyes for make up - similar to what I've seen on Creative Live) but they were too numerous in the edit... I yearned for static shots or shots that set up the location etc. I realise it was a short snippet and only 2 minutes because the model wasn't interested in being videoed... but I learnt a lot... even not to shoot at f1.4 on a M4/3 camera (f.2.8 depth of field on 35mm) as it's overload. I'm going to shoot at f2 as the lowest aperture on the day, and give myself some area for mistakes with focusing... then shoot with a low aperture (f4.5-5) for most of the day to ensure the story is told, rather than shallow depth of fielding the entire video, which is silly and not telling a story of their day.

From this exercise, I believe I want to use my Monopod in preps as much as possible, but to get storytelling shots - close ups of presents (iPad and Groom's present), slider for the multi-coloured socks we're wearing as the groomsmen and a range of over the shoulder shots for any writing that goes on, to setting up the scene - starting wide and then moving in... from 12mm (24mm) to 25mm (50mm) and then zooming with my feet for close ups of hands, dress, ties etc. Later in the day, I'll capture the ceremony as best as I can (shown below) but also go around with the photogs for b-roll and eventually the first dance etc... there's also a 15 minute slot in the morning just for the dress... any ideas on what to do creatively during this segment? I'm considering my slider and taking the dress outside if it's a nice day... but then I think it will (again) depend on the photogs.

This is exactly my problem - I'm shooting INTO the windows, which are huge and it was difficult to expose correctly. I ended up deciding (when I went for a test shoot) to blow out the windows and expose the front table as best as I could... in reality, this is going to be my back up shot, and I'm going to shoot from the side (where I'm sitting on the front row), but before I do, I'm getting a wide angle shot with a slider of the isle before and during the event, with the tripod facing down the isle exposing the bride and groom and myself moving to the right hand side, shooting the bride and also the hands - rings - as well as the kiss (hopefully). The only pain here is that there are no ways for me to position a third camera on the groom... basically, there is only one entrance - the isle - and no other way to move around.

It's for this reason - sun going in and out - that I'm going to leave the OM-D potentially in iAuto mode at the back... or I'll just have to pre-expose and hope... nightmare situation really... at least the footage from the side will be good enough, even if I won't have a huge variety for that particular part of the wedding... any ideas?

Definitely!!! Makes me want to capture that audio without her knowledge... but I'll see... ultimately, I'd love to make a number of edits, as it'll be my only chance to do a wedding, and I'm excited!!!

Thanks again!!!

Last edited by Craig McKenna; April 7th, 2014 at 07:23 PM.
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Old April 8th, 2014, 05:28 AM   #41
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Re: Cinevate Duzi slider and a tripod under 500 to go with it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig McKenna View Post
Generally speaking, will a small voice recorder pick up their voices reasonably well without an external mic?
Honestly, I don't know anything about that recorder, I just noticed it as others were recommending it. We use the Zoom H1 and yes it's built in mics pick up enough to use.

If people are making speeches without a PA system they tend to speak up. If they are using a PA system you've got the original voice (which will be quieter), the sound coming from the speakers and then the nasty bounce back off the walls too, and in my experience that makes for a really wooly sound that's a pain to mix clearly. You have to really start playing with the EQ and every room is different. That's why I like to mic the PA speakers if they are being used, and use that audio where possible, resorting to the table mics only if they aren't using the PA. Other recorders (or possibly on-camera mics) get the ambient sounds from the room at important parts such as applause, laughter etc.

Those recorders are however small enough to add cheap(ish) wired lav mics which means you could mic the Father/Groom/Best man and get pretty good sound that way (do it without the bride seeing!).

Perhaps if they are reading this, Peter or Roger could jump in here and give their experience of this recorder???
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Old April 8th, 2014, 05:45 AM   #42
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Re: Cinevate Duzi slider and a tripod under 500 to go with it?

I've started to use the Sony digital recorders all the time now. Sony ICDPX333.CE7 4GB PX Series MP3 Digital Voice IC Recorder
Two things, Firstly they are simple to use. Switch on, press record!
second they give acceptable sound quality and are cheap!
I went out and bought 5. I now have 7 small recorders , all with tie clip microphones so I mic up everyone doing speeches.
If they want to start walking around its no sweat. If they talk quietly, no problems.
I like to make my life as stress free as I can.
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Last edited by John Estcourt; April 8th, 2014 at 05:49 AM. Reason: inset model of recorder
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Old April 8th, 2014, 05:48 AM   #43
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Re: Cinevate Duzi slider and a tripod under 500 to go with it?

What mics are you using with these John?
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Old April 8th, 2014, 06:15 AM   #44
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Re: Cinevate Duzi slider and a tripod under 500 to go with it?

Dave, the version I bought came with their own microphones. they are stereo microphones.
A little larger than the tie clip microphones I have used in the past, but they work well.
I will see if I can find a link to them.
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Old April 8th, 2014, 06:27 AM   #45
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Re: Cinevate Duzi slider and a tripod under 500 to go with it?

Buy Sony ICD-PX312M 2GB Ddigital Voice Recorder with Memory Card Slot/Mic | Free Delivery | Hiwayhifi

I purchased mine through Amazon but found this link to them.

I still use my Yamaha c24 recorder which now works flawlessly after the firmware update, however the Sony recorders are so simple and have been faultless. ( so far)
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