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Old April 8th, 2014, 12:27 PM   #46
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Re: Cinevate Duzi slider and a tripod under 500 to go with it?

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Originally Posted by Dave Partington View Post
Honestly, I don't know anything about that recorder, I just noticed it as others were recommending it. We use the Zoom H1 and yes it's built in mics pick up enough to use.

If people are making speeches without a PA system they tend to speak up. If they are using a PA system you've got the original voice (which will be quieter), the sound coming from the speakers and then the nasty bounce back off the walls too, and in my experience that makes for a really wooly sound that's a pain to mix clearly. You have to really start playing with the EQ and every room is different. That's why I like to mic the PA speakers if they are being used, and use that audio where possible, resorting to the table mics only if they aren't using the PA. Other recorders (or possibly on-camera mics) get the ambient sounds from the room at important parts such as applause, laughter etc.

Those recorders are however small enough to add cheap(ish) wired lav mics which means you could mic the Father/Groom/Best man and get pretty good sound that way (do it without the bride seeing!).

Perhaps if they are reading this, Peter or Roger could jump in here and give their experience of this recorder???
OK thank you.

My final questions with regards to audio would be the need to buy a stereo recorder versus a mono recorder?

And is there a general understanding that you use different channels for different things? Like X and Y for foley and A and B for speech? Read something about that, but didn't quite get the full gist.

I think I'm going to buy two Zoom H1s and then I can use it for doing two places on the table and I'll just ask the best man not to wander! I know him quite well now... as well as this, I'll record the band as well...

Hmmm I think the Bride would get me if she caught me with the mics in! Haha I'm not into risking that and our friendship! But I'll definitely consider asking the venue tomorrow if they're going to use a speaker system... still think I'll go with the tiny recorders considering this isn't their main interest anyways...

Thanks for your help Dave (as always). I got the Z Finder Pro today and quite like it, even though it's a little fiddly.

Finishing up my editing training and then I'm going to go back and refresh my understanding of getting shots, along with practising more myself with my equipment.

Thanks again!!! I'll be back, I'm sure.
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Old April 14th, 2014, 11:31 AM   #47
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Re: Cinevate Duzi slider and a tripod under 500 to go with it?

Hi All,

I've discovered an issue in my workflow:

EM 5 = 60p or 30p
GH3 = 50p, 25p or 24p
X800 = 50p

Therefore, I'm going to shoot in 50p, but when it comes to importing OMD EM5 footage, what will happen? Should I shoot at 60p and just change its frame rate to 50p upon importing (if that's even possible)? Did a quick search online... no ideas there... I'm sure that I'll be able to match it up somehow, especially considering that the audio shouldn't matter...

Thanks if anyone can help... 2 days to go!
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Old April 14th, 2014, 12:04 PM   #48
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Re: Cinevate Duzi slider and a tripod under 500 to go with it?

Shoot at 60p, import as 60p and just drop it on to a 50p timeline as if it were 50p. Most NLEs will cope with this. The gotcha may be tiny sync issues here and there, and keep an eye on the audio.

Worst case is you can take the 60p footage in to something like MediaEncoder or Compressor etc and tell it to make a 50p file, but you probably won't need to do that as long as your NLE copes.

If you were to change the frame rate from 60p to 50p before dropping it on the timeline then the timing would definitely be out of sync because the file would be being played slower. Keeping it as a 60p file played on a 50p timeline will make the NLE interpolate the frames to fit.

What NLE are you using?
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Old April 14th, 2014, 12:54 PM   #49
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Re: Cinevate Duzi slider and a tripod under 500 to go with it?

Thanks Dave! Sweet. I use Final Cut Pro X, so I'd assume that will cope fine? I tried reading an article about it from Apple themselves, but I was unsure if it was okay to do so still.

Thanks. I think I'm sorted. Cards formatted for each camera and stored in a card holder, all batteries charged - although this is a bit of a nightmare when you have 4 batteries for a camera - any mass charging solutions??? Or do you just spend a day charging before each shoot?!

Otherwise, two Tascam DR-07Mk iis and two table top tripods to aim them at the speaker. I have tried recording a few speeches that I've been doing, and it seems the gain as high as 90 seems to work brilliantly if the person is a metre or more away. Imported to FCPX and increased the volume by 12db and the sound quality was superb. Speakers are at either end of the table, so that should have me covered and if not, the b&g are aware.

I've now spent around 3000+ on this wedding. Lol at the thread title.

It's a good job I live at home. You all must be really successful to be able to afford new gear all of this gear.

I've written a 7 page plan for the day, which looks at all of my shots that I want, potential transitions and equipment needed for each section, as well as my mate covering equipment at different points.

I'll have two locked off cameras. I'm going to set the focus point on the OMD EM5 and then hope that the lighting doesn't change too drastically. But I'm unsure if I'd be better to just leave it in aperture priority or shutter priority and then let it do its thing??? The camcorder will be locked off as well, and that one I'll just leave in auto. Hope it does a good job.

Otherwise, it's all about me and the monopod and slider. Slider shots from the isle after the bride walks past - few different shots and then take my seat at the front and move out getting shots with the GH3 and monopod.

I think the ceremony has me nervous. All other parts of the day, I feel content.

Massive thanks Dave!!!!
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Old April 14th, 2014, 02:12 PM   #50
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Re: Cinevate Duzi slider and a tripod under 500 to go with it?

FCPX should handle it no problem, though of course creating proxies for at least the multi cam sections is recommended (then export from the full res versions). I use FCPX all the time now.

If in doubt, record some 50p and 60p footage "now" and drop them on the same time line and see how it goes. It doesn't have to be anything fancy. Set both cameras up side by side then stand in front and clap, then wait 60 seconds (or better yet - 5 mins) and then clap again. Drop them on to the same sequence and see if the claps still line up. If they do you're good to go, if they don't then there is a little work to do.

In terms of batteries, perhaps I can offer one more tip. Get some small elastic bands and put them around the charged batteries. Remove the band when you put it on the camera. When you go looking for the next charged battery - they are the ones with the elastic bands still on them and it makes it much easier to find them when in a hurry or it's dark.

For the cards, store them face up in the case when they are blank and face down when they are full.

When you remove a lens cap put it straight in your pocket (same pocket every time). That way you'll never lose a cap because you'll know exactly where it is.

Get in to these few habits form the start and they will serve you well. I've never lost a cap, never tried to put a battery on that was already used and never tried to reuse a card that's already been used.

One more tip. Make sure the time/clock on each camera is synced to within a couple of seconds so that when you import them to FCPX all the files will be in the right order in the event. Nothing worse than having some footage out of sequence!
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Old April 15th, 2014, 09:11 AM   #51
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Re: Cinevate Duzi slider and a tripod under 500 to go with it?

The camcorder will be locked off as well, and that one I'll just leave in auto. Hope it does a good job.

These are great insurance policies and more. Just one thing to be aware of - they often benefit from having "backlight compensation" selected if it has that feature. A bride and groom standing in front of a bright window is an obvious scenario but even standing with a light wall in the background can give you a less than perfect exposure. The Panasonic b-cams that I use have this and it also adjusts itself on the fly during recording, so if the exposure varies e.g. because intermittent clouds keep on changing the amount of sunlight entering the room the cams will adjust for that by themselves.

Oh and one other thing with cams. If you use a ball and socket head pay special attention to leveling it so that you don't get a sloping horizon. So easy to do. Easy to correct in post but it involved loosing some of your composition due ti rotation and cropping. When you are setting it up try to get a tall person to stand for a moment at your target area as its very easy to misjudge the amount of height you need. OK that was three things :- )

Pete
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Old April 15th, 2014, 05:20 PM   #52
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Re: Cinevate Duzi slider and a tripod under 500 to go with it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Partington View Post
FCPX should handle it no problem, though of course creating proxies for at least the multi cam sections is recommended (then export from the full res versions). I use FCPX all the time now.

If in doubt, record some 50p and 60p footage "now" and drop them on the same time line and see how it goes. It doesn't have to be anything fancy. Set both cameras up side by side then stand in front and clap, then wait 60 seconds (or better yet - 5 mins) and then clap again. Drop them on to the same sequence and see if the claps still line up. If they do you're good to go, if they don't then there is a little work to do.

In terms of batteries, perhaps I can offer one more tip. Get some small elastic bands and put them around the charged batteries. Remove the band when you put it on the camera. When you go looking for the next charged battery - they are the ones with the elastic bands still on them and it makes it much easier to find them when in a hurry or it's dark.

For the cards, store them face up in the case when they are blank and face down when they are full.

When you remove a lens cap put it straight in your pocket (same pocket every time). That way you'll never lose a cap because you'll know exactly where it is.

Get in to these few habits form the start and they will serve you well. I've never lost a cap, never tried to put a battery on that was already used and never tried to reuse a card that's already been used.

One more tip. Make sure the time/clock on each camera is synced to within a couple of seconds so that when you import them to FCPX all the files will be in the right order in the event. Nothing worse than having some footage out of sequence!
Thanks Dave, these are great tips!!!

I've been at a funeral all day today, so I'll try mixing it all up tomorrow.. there's a pre-wedding event, so I'll get some footage there and then people will be familiar with the camera / idea of video hopefully before the big day.

I'll check my cameras times as well - amazing tip!

It's all coming down to it now... really excited, but nervous too. Finger's crossed it all goes well...

Thank you for all of the help with preparation... hopefully, when you see the video, you will think that it has gone to some good use... but we will see! Thanks again Dave!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Riding
The camcorder will be locked off as well, and that one I'll just leave in auto. Hope it does a good job.

These are great insurance policies and more. Just one thing to be aware of - they often benefit from having "backlight compensation" selected if it has that feature. A bride and groom standing in front of a bright window is an obvious scenario but even standing with a light wall in the background can give you a less than perfect exposure. The Panasonic b-cams that I use have this and it also adjusts itself on the fly during recording, so if the exposure varies e.g. because intermittent clouds keep on changing the amount of sunlight entering the room the cams will adjust for that by themselves.

Oh and one other thing with cams. If you use a ball and socket head pay special attention to leveling it so that you don't get a sloping horizon. So easy to do. Easy to correct in post but it involved loosing some of your composition due ti rotation and cropping. When you are setting it up try to get a tall person to stand for a moment at your target area as its very easy to misjudge the amount of height you need. OK that was three things :- )

Pete
Thanks Peter, I'm unsure if the X800 has this feature, but I'll Google it now, thank you!

Also, I have a great tripod thanks to the recommendations here. I'm using a Sachtler Ace, which allows you to ensure the horizon is perfectly in line using the bowl and the bubble level.

Great tip on the height as well!!! Thanks a lot Peter!
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Old April 18th, 2014, 12:58 PM   #53
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Re: Cinevate Duzi slider and a tripod under 500 to go with it?

Hi All,

Back from my shoot; absolutely loved it!!! Just been through and reviewed all of my footage and the wonder as to HOW to edit comes into play... I've thought and thought and thought about the shots... but actually putting them together is a whole 'nother skill that I have yet to encompass into my toolkit! That said, I've just favourited all of the segments that I like... and it's still over four hours... but that's including the speeches and ceremony, of which there are two cameras - so about an hour and a half otherwise...

Finger's crossed I can do a good edit... definitely a great job to have though, and the photographers for the day were extremely helpful and even paid compliments to my etiquette and for being there when necessary throughout the day.

A few things I've learned:

- Despite being polite, still take your shots.
- Get close enough, don't worry that you might block someone's view for a temporary moment if you're going to get a shot worth keeping.
- Shoot with a professional zoom lens throughout the day, as 2.8 is plenty and swapping primes is a challenging compromise and often leads to laziness - staying wide, rather than getting close.
- Being polite pays dividends - recommendations and offers of help.
- Natural light, when used effectively, is gorgeous.
- Even though you're capturing an event, it's important to interact with the bride and groom to try and get some decent shots... it's extremely difficult to capture a story without some direction... at least that's how it seems now... I can see why people have a first look etc. It must help the storyline endlessly... I really need a storyline of sorts for mine... I like the natural documentary... but I missed the dress being fitted as I was also a Groomsmen and needed to have my own pictures taken...

Things I need to learn:

- How to cut from one shot to the next...
- How to tell a story...
- How to capture great, natural light myself...
- How to gain enough footage to tell a complete story...

Etc.

I captured nearly seven hours of footage... it looks great in some cases... but matching it with a song seems like it's only about the bride and groom, yet I need to put in family shots and b-roll too...

A huge thank you to all who have posted in this thread... you have helped me to shoot a film that could be quite successful...

I have a slider shot of the wedding dress hung up in front of a window that looks like something you'd see in a film... I LOVE THAT SHOT! But it's the only shot that I'm truly in love with... others are great, but they're not WOW!

Any recommendations about how to piece together footage?
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Old April 18th, 2014, 01:09 PM   #54
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Re: Cinevate Duzi slider and a tripod under 500 to go with it?

There are so many ways to edit things together that it's almost impossible to guide you in any specific way without actually having footage to deal with.

The first question I have is how good is the audio, not just the quality, but the content. Were the speeches the type where you can pull sound bites out and use them overlaid on other video, or where they unsuitable?

How did the vows & rings go (audio)? In terms of highlights these can sometimes be awesome, but only sometimes.

If all you have is great video and not much in the way of usable audio (listen for background sounds too) then you are making a music video, and that's one way of doing it. If you have great audio sound bites then that's a completely different edit.

So, without knowing what you have..... that's a tough call.
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Old April 19th, 2014, 04:46 AM   #55
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Re: Cinevate Duzi slider and a tripod under 500 to go with it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Partington
There are so many ways to edit things together that it's almost impossible to guide you in any specific way without actually having footage to deal with.

The first question I have is how good is the audio, not just the quality, but the content. Were the speeches the type where you can pull sound bites out and use them overlaid on other video, or where they unsuitable?

How did the vows & rings go (audio)? In terms of highlights these can sometimes be awesome, but only sometimes.

If all you have is great video and not much in the way of usable audio (listen for background sounds too) then you are making a music video, and that's one way of doing it. If you have great audio sound bites then that's a completely different edit.

So, without knowing what you have..... that's a tough call.
Hi Dave,

I don't know if you remember, but the bride didn't want any audio in this video... the groom wanted the speeches separately, so I've got really great audio for that... but for the four minute music video, I just have the music... although I've added in sounds of claps and cheering from the camera... which I think adds, rather than detracts from the video...

If I upload it to Vimeo with a password, then you'll be able to see what I have, I guess...? I've finished the video in a one day edit. Four minutes long... it's in colour at the minute... but I do have one black and white image in there... mainly because I forgot to take it out on export early this morning.

The bride wants the video in black and white... I think I prefer colour... but I know I have a lot of colour grading and improving of the video to do, because the X800 constantly changed its exposure and generally got it wrong as an unmanned camera.

Otherwise, I do need to do some video stabilisation as well.

And there are a few other things that I'm unhappy with, i.e. the cutting of the speeches... but I was running out of time... I could remove them, but she wants it as a chronological film.

Anyways, I'll begin uploading it to Vimeo and then I'll post it password protected so that nobody stumbles across it by accident. Hopefully you can take a look at it? It's only a one-day edit, so I don't know what you will think, and it's my first video too. But hopefully it's decent. I quite like some of the shots in there, but on others, I had to raise the monopod so high that I couldn't alter focus.

Either way, I'll have it uploaded in a few hours, more than likely.

Thanks for all the help Dave!!!
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Old April 19th, 2014, 07:08 AM   #56
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Re: Cinevate Duzi slider and a tripod under 500 to go with it?

Here's the video with a password: 170414


Please let me know what works and what doesn't :) I know I have all of the issues posted above, but this is just a quick one day edit... I'm going to spend a few more days on it when I get the time, but a pair of fresh eyes would be great.

Thanks!!!
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Old April 19th, 2014, 08:39 AM   #57
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Re: Cinevate Duzi slider and a tripod under 500 to go with it?

Congrats Craig, you pulled it off :- ) I was worried we may have spooked you with all the technical tips to try and remember but no you stayed on top of it.

It seems churlish to critique things when this first effort by someone inexperienced has worked so well. Bit of colour balancing here bit of missed focus there but so what. Other than that I'd aim to get the music to finish just slightly after the video rather than as is. And I'd crop at the ring exchanges so that just the upper bodies show - faces cut in half is a no-no. I think the chronological order works really well, no confusing or inappropriate or cheesy vocals popping up in the "wrong" places. Not sure why the bride would want it in black and white, the existing black and white could maybe be a little more contrasty.

Yep you've done great :- )

Pete
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Old April 19th, 2014, 08:49 AM   #58
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Re: Cinevate Duzi slider and a tripod under 500 to go with it?

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Originally Posted by Peter Riding
Congrats Craig, you pulled it off :- ) I was worried we may have spooked you with all the technical tips to try and remember but no you stayed on top of it.

It seems churlish to critique things when this first effort by someone inexperienced has worked so well. Bit of colour balancing here bit of missed focus there but so what. Other than that I'd aim to get the music to finish just slightly after the video rather than as is. And I'd crop at the ring exchanges so that just the upper bodies show - faces cut in half is a no-no. I think the chronological order works really well, no confusing or inappropriate or cheesy vocals popping up in the "wrong" places. Not sure why the bride would want it in black and white, the existing black and white could maybe be a little more contrasty.

Yep you've done great :- )

Pete
Thanks Peter! Haha no, not at all! I've found all of your tips to be extremely helpful, and I'm really thankful to this forum and its posters for helping me to do a decent job with my first wedding... it was extremely challenging at times, and I wish I had a second tripod, as shooting with a monopod for a whole ceremony proved to be extremely challenging on the arms haha but apart from that, I was really pleased with the opening slider shots, particularly the one with the wedding dress. Otherwise, I found it really difficult to fit the entire wedding into one song... but hopefully they'll be pleased with it. I'm going to take it down after a few days, make the changes, and then I'll be back with the finished product.

Definitely need to do the colour balancing next, as well as stabilising some of the footage. I have to admit that I've never cropped footage before, but I know how to do it - so I'll definitely get rid of that chin! It was frustrating me, but I so desperately wished that I'd framed for her face as well.

The missed focus on the train line was frustrating too, but I had to put my monopod to full size to shoot above the photographers (who were really, really helpful on the day!). But realise that missed focus is apparent in places too.

Thanks Pete... the black and white is going to be the final finish... I have no idea how to perfect black and white either... but I'll use the filter in FCPX and see what I can manage... I think I need to do quite a bit still with all of the technical side, but I just wanted to complete the story...

Any ideas as to which clips you'd trim or take away to fit the story in perfectly? Or would you just remove the final clip and trim it a little tighter in places?

Thank you so much for watching and helping me, I really appreciate everyone's thoughts, opinions and advice.

I guess my final question would be, do you think I have what it takes to make it in the industry? I think I'd really need a second tripod, and a glidecam... but I'd be interested in doing this for a living now... and the photographers even said they'd pass on my recommendation too... so I'm thinking that maybe it's time to take it seriously...

Otherwise, what an amazing job you all have!!! I absolutely loved the preparation, the shoot, the day, the edit! etc.

Thanks again!!! :)
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Old April 20th, 2014, 10:48 AM   #59
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Re: Cinevate Duzi slider and a tripod under 500 to go with it?

Craig, requests for feedback don't tend to get many responses. You could try re-posting in the samples section as in this thread its rather lost.

What you do from here to this film is really up to you. I'm sure the bride will be pleased and of course she won't know anything about what other possibilities you may have considered.

It is pretty much deliverable in my view and so yes you could charge for future work. But don't underestimate how challenging many weddings can be. You would have benefited from the good will and tolerance towards you as a guest at this one. Try it, you might like it. Or you might not :- )

Pete
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Old April 20th, 2014, 11:30 AM   #60
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Re: Cinevate Duzi slider and a tripod under 500 to go with it?

Craig, for a first time you did good.

If I had to make any observations they would be:

• Over use of slo-mo. Some people like it, some don't. It can look odd when there is 'full speed' audio like applause etc. The brain can get confused between what it's seeing and hearing so it just looks wrong.

• Coming back to a shot too many times, such as the confetti throwing. You come back to it 3 times with another clip (the same one?) splitting each time. That didn't work for me. Sometimes it's better to do something awesome and move on rather than coming back to it and people get bored of what would otherwise have been a memorable moment that made them want to replay the entire video.

• Definitely some odd cuts at times of wobbles etc that could be worked around, and other times applying some stabilisation would help big time.

• Definitely finish the video before the audio (or at least at the same time). Hanging over the end looked like it was a mistake and there should have been more audio that was somehow missing.

Working on the colour (and B&W) takes time and experience. FCPX built in colour capabilities are superb compared to many other NLEs on the market, you just have to learn how to use them (it's really easy). Adding multiple colour corrections, maybe with masks and colour selections can make a huge difference if you know the look you're going for. Don't try to do everything in one go.

Overall a great first attempt, well done.
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