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Shooting non-repeatable events: weddings, recitals, plays, performances...


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Old April 21st, 2014, 04:32 AM   #61
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Re: Cinevate Duzi slider and a tripod under 500 to go with it?

Super job Craig! I find its very similar to my style. Effectively just a chronological highlights. Guys who charge more than me would tend to mix it up a little and use audio overlays from specches or vows etc... But I'm happy with this style.

One very small suggestion, I would cut you slider shots after the movement has began and cut to next shot before the movement has reached its end point. It just feels better IMO.

But yea, well done!
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Old April 21st, 2014, 05:54 AM   #62
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Re: Cinevate Duzi slider and a tripod under 500 to go with it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Riding View Post

These are great insurance policies and more. Just one thing to be aware of - they often benefit from having "backlight compensation" selected if it has that feature. A bride and groom standing in front of a bright window is an obvious scenario but even standing with a light wall in the background can give you a less than perfect exposure. The Panasonic b-cams that I use have this and it also adjusts itself on the fly during recording, so if the exposure varies e.g. because intermittent clouds keep on changing the amount of sunlight entering the room the cams will adjust for that by themselves.

Pete
Just be a little wary however of turning the backlight compensation off if you don't need it - I have it on my Sony CX730 cams and it can blow out the bride's dress easily - I just enable it if there is a window in shot and it's going to be unattended.

Pete
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Old April 21st, 2014, 01:12 PM   #63
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Re: Cinevate Duzi slider and a tripod under 500 to go with it?

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Originally Posted by Peter Riding View Post
Craig, requests for feedback don't tend to get many responses. You could try re-posting in the samples section as in this thread its rather lost.

What you do from here to this film is really up to you. I'm sure the bride will be pleased and of course she won't know anything about what other possibilities you may have considered.

It is pretty much deliverable in my view and so yes you could charge for future work. But don't underestimate how challenging many weddings can be. You would have benefited from the good will and tolerance towards you as a guest at this one. Try it, you might like it. Or you might not :- )

Pete
Hi Peter, thanks for your tips! I'm probably going to post it in there when it's completely finished... interestingly, the groom just asked if it would be possible to change their song lol. So I just said that I can do that during my next week-long holiday; otherwise, I'd fall behind at work. Either way, I accept the challenge, given that it'll only benefit my editing skills, which leave quite a bit to be desired still.

:-) Very true... I'm going to take on board all of the responses and feedback that I've received so far and try my best to better the edit that I have so far on Friday / Saturday. I'm going to show the video to the bride on Saturday evening.

As for doing it, I think I'm going to go ahead and have a whirl at this... I think I'm already one foot in with all of the money that I've spent on equipment. After looking at the mistakes that I made on this shoot, I can only learn and get better. When I look at the competition, I think I can produce videos that would be just as good after gaining more experience. So, we'll see...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Partington View Post
Craig, for a first time you did good.

If I had to make any observations they would be:

Over use of slo-mo. Some people like it, some don't. It can look odd when there is 'full speed' audio like applause etc. The brain can get confused between what it's seeing and hearing so it just looks wrong.

Coming back to a shot too many times, such as the confetti throwing. You come back to it 3 times with another clip (the same one?) splitting each time. That didn't work for me. Sometimes it's better to do something awesome and move on rather than coming back to it and people get bored of what would otherwise have been a memorable moment that made them want to replay the entire video.

Definitely some odd cuts at times of wobbles etc that could be worked around, and other times applying some stabilisation would help big time.

Definitely finish the video before the audio (or at least at the same time). Hanging over the end looked like it was a mistake and there should have been more audio that was somehow missing.

Working on the colour (and B&W) takes time and experience. FCPX built in colour capabilities are superb compared to many other NLEs on the market, you just have to learn how to use them (it's really easy). Adding multiple colour corrections, maybe with masks and colour selections can make a huge difference if you know the look you're going for. Don't try to do everything in one go.

Overall a great first attempt, well done.
Thanks Dave, that's all I could expect to do really... I wanted to do well for my first wedding... but I also want to do well for any wedding! I want to get better.

Thanks Dave. Given that I shot in 50p, I felt the video looked rather strange in playback? I've been shooting at 24p since I got my GH3, but then decided to shoot 50p for this to allow for slow motion - which they liked in other videos. I think in future, I would shoot 24p for the most part of the day, and 50p perhaps in the preps or during the isle walk - when it can be difficult to get the shot, but also when the viewer might want to observe slow-mo... I can only offer my thoughts really, as I don't yet have the answer. In any case, that's why the video ended up in slow-mo throughout. Would you consider mixing it up? Or keeping it as is? Also, would you take out the applause?

Thanks, that's a great tip! The shot that I come back to is a different one, but from the same moment. In one they are laughing / smiling, and in the other they are kissing. I guess I will replace the end of the tunnel walk with something else, whilst coming back to it twice? As I liked the feel of the switching between two different events... might just be me though =/

Definitely going to apply stabilisation! This was a one-day edit, so I already know that I need to work on the colour, as well as the sound and the stabilisation. As well as considering some other shots...

OK! I'm tempted to take out the last cut completely, as I don't even like the slow-mo on it! That'll bring it right down anyways and I'll fade out with the song and them staring at one another whilst dancing.

That sounds really interesting! I'm going to research all of that with FCPX!!! Cheers.

Thanks a lot Dave, you've helped me unconditionally for months and I really appreciate it. Thank you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clive McLaughlin
Super job Craig! I find its very similar to my style. Effectively just a chronological highlights. Guys who charge more than me would tend to mix it up a little and use audio overlays from specches or vows etc... But I'm happy with this style.

One very small suggestion, I would cut you slider shots after the movement has began and cut to next shot before the movement has reached its end point. It just feels better IMO.

But yea, well done!
Thanks Clive! Yeah, I quite liked how the video turned out after a day's edit. I'm hoping to make it even better at the weekend and take on board everything that's been said so far!!! I also want to redo the video with a song that I've fell in love with on numerous wedding videos so far. It's one that I saw Ray Roman use on Creative Live and Noa Put has also used it here. In that video, I want to use the groom's speech, as well as him reading his wife's message on the morning. Unfortunately, I stuck to what the bride wanted and didn't consider recording audio, except for the speeches when I was allowed. But I wish I'd just stuck an audio recorder on my camera and ran with it... but I can just see what I have and work with it, as it'll only be to play around, anyways. Very impressed with the GH3 and how it contained the sound of the dances too - reasonably clear.

Thanks for the slider suggestion! I'll take a look at that too! I do see how the bride's dress shot freezes for half a second before it's cut, so I'll work on that.

Otherwise, are there any tutorials on how to cut? I think it's one of the most challenging aspects of editing... which clip do you select next, and when do you cut? It's difficult to know from a novice's perspective.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Rush
Just be a little wary however of turning the backlight compensation off if you don't need it - I have it on my Sony CX730 cams and it can blow out the bride's dress easily - I just enable it if there is a window in shot and it's going to be unattended.

Pete
Definitely, this is what happened to my footage. It just constantly jumped between underexposed and overexposed because there was a row of windows in front of them, and one behind. It fooled the camera no end, and I think I would have benefitted from just setting the settings manually and hoping the light wouldn't change too much.

It was left unattended though, so maybe there is no winning in this situation?
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Old April 21st, 2014, 04:12 PM   #64
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Re: Cinevate Duzi slider and a tripod under 500 to go with it?

Definitely, this is what happened to my footage. It just constantly jumped between underexposed and overexposed because there was a row of windows in front of them, and one behind. It fooled the camera no end, and I think I would have benefitted from just setting the settings manually and hoping the light wouldn't change too much.

It must depend on the camera model. I have three Panasonic TM's that I use as b-cams and they reliably change the exposure on the fly. And of course the more b-cams you run the greater your chances of having an alternative nice shot whilst one cam is making its mind up what to do. The Pannys always amaze me with their intelligence though - it feels like cheating :- )

In the scenario you described maybe you needed to choose an alternative position for that cam - one in which the composition might not have been as good but the ambient light falling on the couple more consistent.

Don't get too analytical about your results. I didn't really notice stability issues because the storytelling engrossed me. Yes there was quite a bit of slo-mo but again it worked well in this film. And from a purely business point of view you just have to meet a certain quality threshold to satisfy the client, then anything more is really for your benefit not theirs.

Pete
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Old April 21st, 2014, 05:27 PM   #65
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Re: Cinevate Duzi slider and a tripod under 500 to go with it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Riding View Post
Definitely, this is what happened to my footage. It just constantly jumped between underexposed and overexposed because there was a row of windows in front of them, and one behind. It fooled the camera no end, and I think I would have benefitted from just setting the settings manually and hoping the light wouldn't change too much.

It must depend on the camera model. I have three Panasonic TM's that I use as b-cams and they reliably change the exposure on the fly. And of course the more b-cams you run the greater your chances of having an alternative nice shot whilst one cam is making its mind up what to do. The Pannys always amaze me with their intelligence though - it feels like cheating :- )

In the scenario you described maybe you needed to choose an alternative position for that cam - one in which the composition might not have been as good but the ambient light falling on the couple more consistent.

Don't get too analytical about your results. I didn't really notice stability issues because the storytelling engrossed me. Yes there was quite a bit of slo-mo but again it worked well in this film. And from a purely business point of view you just have to meet a certain quality threshold to satisfy the client, then anything more is really for your benefit not theirs.

Pete
Wow... some setup having so many unmanned!! Churches don't mind? The venue I was shooting at only had the isle for people to move around... therefore, I was stuck in the corner. I only had one other corner that I could have conceivably used, as I think the two people who were running the service itself may not have liked the tripod behind them... I may be wrong though, as I never asked!!! :) I guess this would have solved my problem - but at the time, I had no idea... just chalk it up as a learning experience.

Thanks... that's a great compliment (engrossed). I am falling in love with storytelling and wedding cinematography. Watching the greats in the industry, as well as the people here have me in awe! It's amazing what can be done!

Thanks again for all of your help, I really want to grow and develop my craft and I think this forum is a wonderful place to learn.

Are there any threads that are particular standouts as to starting a wedding videography business? And if you shoot 30-40 weddings a year on average, does that mean that your average wage is around 30k a year?

That's all I want to make to begin with, anything thereafter is a bonus. It would justify my move into the industry.
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Old April 22nd, 2014, 09:55 PM   #66
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Re: Cinevate Duzi slider and a tripod under 500 to go with it?

Tripods were not designed to handle lateral movements, NO MATTER IF YOU PAID $100 or $1000 FOR THE TRIPOD!

For $40 you can get 2 light stands that will do better than most tripods.

I own the 3 foot Duzi slider and I've been there done that.
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Old April 27th, 2014, 03:23 AM   #67
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Re: Cinevate Duzi slider and a tripod under 500 to go with it?

Theres a 3 foot version of the Duzi now?!? When did this come out?
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Old April 27th, 2014, 07:46 AM   #68
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Re: Cinevate Duzi slider and a tripod under 500 to go with it?

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Originally Posted by Kelly Huffaker View Post
Theres a 3 foot version of the Duzi now?!? When did this come out?
Around September of last year. It's a great slider, light and the footage from it is great. Despite not using others, you can tell it's well made and worth the price. I'd recommend it.
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