Noa, Clive, James and Peter at DVinfo.net

Chris Hewitt · August 3rd, 2014, 06:29 AM

Hi guys, I know for about a year at least you've been using the CX730. I have two of them along side a Panasonic AC160 which is basically my tripod camera (ceremony and speeches). The 730's are great for mobility as you'd know.
I use Vegas 12 to edit and am trying to fine tune the 730's to colour match the 160 and each other by using a custom Vegas template (or whatever NLE you use) and that works pretty well but was wondering what you do in post.
On location, I WB the cameras but still, they all require some post work to match which is a necessary chore.

For the 730's, I drop the gamma by 0.05% and increase saturation by about 7%.

Peter Rush · August 3rd, 2014, 06:44 AM

Chris I use Premiere Pro and only make a minor adjustment with the fast colour corrector - I normally increase the input black level from 0 to 5.0 (sounds a lot but it's not really) and the input mid level from 1.0 to 1.1 I also increase the saturation from 100 to 110/120 depending on the scene. Sometimes I will adjust the input white level but that entirely depends on the scene. I also add 5% sharpen.

My main camera is a Sony EA50 and I used to use Panasonic TM900 cameras as well but I had a lot of trouble matching them up - the CX730 footage requires just this little tweak for me

I have to admit to leaving the WB to auto a lot of the time - the CX730 does a damn good job :)

This is from yesterday's wedding

Noa Put · August 3rd, 2014, 06:53 AM

I recently purchased the sony ax100 and I now shoot ceremonies with my 2 sony cx730 and one ax100. The colors from the ax100 and cx730 look exactly the same, the only difference is in sharpness where the ax100 has the advantage but that only shows if I place them side by side and shoot a wideangle scenery shot with lots of fine detail in the distance, otherwise they almost look like identical camera's. Even if I have them all run on full auto unmanned I don't have any post work to match them up.

Colin McDonald · August 3rd, 2014, 08:06 AM

Thought this was going to be a remake of Bob & Carol & Ted & Alice for a moment there. :-)

Noa Put · August 3rd, 2014, 08:29 AM

If you want you can join our little group as well.

James Manford · August 3rd, 2014, 09:05 AM

I've switched to the PJ780VE (my CX730 started randomly crashing on me ... blue screen with marks through it). It's basically the same camcorder, but an upgrade.

Anyway, so to colour match the PJ780VE with my FS700, I grade my FS700 footage instead. Why? it's easier and more flexible to set profiles on the FS700 than the PJ780VE so it's easier to match THAT with the PJ780VE.

I'm using Vegas and find Colour Curves, Color Correction to be the best tools to use and then just observe the clip with your own eyes and take it from there ...

The weddings I do, doesn't warrant hours and hours of colour grading every clip correctly like hollywood would do it ... I just go with the closest match possible and make sure the content is there so the client is happy.

Colour grading is a proper long, tedious process in itself. So trying to get it scientifically / technically correct to the last detail is impossible unless your main focus is just that and somebody else is cutting and joining clips for you.

Clive McLaughlin · August 3rd, 2014, 10:47 AM

Yea to be honest - I do very little correction in edit for my full length DVD. I just don't have the time after I've levelled the audio, and selected what to hear and when from five audio tracks - and then run through in real time doing a multicamera edit. I generally only do a little bit to try and recover highlights or bring back some detail in shadows.

Noa, do you shoot 4k in the ax100 and downscale, using the ability to crop? Or do you just shoot in HD?

Anyone tempted to upgrade their CX730s for the CX900?

James Manford · August 3rd, 2014, 11:19 AM

If i'm upgrading the cx730 ... i'd go down Noa's route and go 4K with the AX100.

Noa Put · August 3rd, 2014, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clive McLaughlin

Anyone tempted to upgrade their CX730s for the CX900?

Because of the recent pricedrop on the ax100 in my country the price difference between the ax100 and cx900 is only 400 euro, that's what you basically pay for the 4k option and it's a small price to pay to get something very useful.

I have been shooting in 4K with the ax100 since I got it, just yesterday a ceremony with my two cx730's and the ax100 which all 3 where running unmanned, it was a very small chapel with hardly any place to stand, I had pointed my ax100 towards the altar and lectern so both would be in frame.

I just viewed the footage and I can see myself turning up in the sides of the frame of the camera because I was using my rx10 to shoot closeups from the guests on the front side, only now I can easily zoom in post and reframe and remove myself from sight, I can zoom in tighter to the lectern or to the altar and I can make a perfect frame when the couple was doing their vows. The tripod legs from the tripod that was holding my cx730 which was positioned on the front facing the couple are now also easily removed by reframing a bit in post.

I only went up to the camera to check on it from time to time but basically got a lot of free time to wander around getting enough usefull b-roll.

I wouldn't bother with the cx900, the upgrade difference to 4k is so small you regret not to get the 4K version.

Dave Blackhurst · August 3rd, 2014, 04:41 PM

As a US user, I've got the PJ760 (projector version of the 730 I believe). I've tried matching Panasonic cameras, somehow I didn't feel they were quite similar enough in "look", though few people would probably notice. Every time I've tried mixing brands, I've eventually decided to give up on it, they each seem to have a "signature" that's hard to mix and match. You can certainly get "close enough", I've just found it a bit more frustration than it's worth.

I need to update the firmware in my AX100 and A/B with the 760... but offhand I'm thinking of keeping the 760 for handheld (magic eyeball is hard to beat), though the AX100 is otherwise a superior camera. I've also got a few accessories that would be orphaned if I sell the 760...

As Noa stated, the preferable upgrade path would be to the AX100 rather than a CX900 - prices seem to be coming down a bit, and the 4k is worth it for a number of reasons... I thought about a CX900, but for similar or less money the RX10 is more versatile if you ever need stills... and I'd already bought one of those, so aside from the 30 minute record limit (easy enough to deal with), it's an excellent "B" cam. Toss in a couple RX100 (M2 for now, maybe an M3 when they inevitably drop in price) for alternate angles... nice multicam setup, all the same sensor, easy to match... works for me.

August 3rd, 2014, 06:29 AM	#1
Chris Hewitt Major Player Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Broadstairs,Kent, England Posts: 225	Noa, Clive, James and Peter Hi guys, I know for about a year at least you've been using the CX730. I have two of them along side a Panasonic AC160 which is basically my tripod camera (ceremony and speeches). The 730's are great for mobility as you'd know. I use Vegas 12 to edit and am trying to fine tune the 730's to colour match the 160 and each other by using a custom Vegas template (or whatever NLE you use) and that works pretty well but was wondering what you do in post. On location, I WB the cameras but still, they all require some post work to match which is a necessary chore. For the 730's, I drop the gamma by 0.05% and increase saturation by about 7%.

August 3rd, 2014, 06:44 AM	#2
Peter Rush Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: UK/Yorkshire Posts: 2,069	Re: Noa, Clive, James and Peter Chris I use Premiere Pro and only make a minor adjustment with the fast colour corrector - I normally increase the input black level from 0 to 5.0 (sounds a lot but it's not really) and the input mid level from 1.0 to 1.1 I also increase the saturation from 100 to 110/120 depending on the scene. Sometimes I will adjust the input white level but that entirely depends on the scene. I also add 5% sharpen. My main camera is a Sony EA50 and I used to use Panasonic TM900 cameras as well but I had a lot of trouble matching them up - the CX730 footage requires just this little tweak for me I have to admit to leaving the WB to auto a lot of the time - the CX730 does a damn good job :) This is from yesterday's wedding Attached Thumbnails

August 3rd, 2014, 06:53 AM	#3
Noa Put Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Posts: 9,509	Re: Noa, Clive, James and Peter I recently purchased the sony ax100 and I now shoot ceremonies with my 2 sony cx730 and one ax100. The colors from the ax100 and cx730 look exactly the same, the only difference is in sharpness where the ax100 has the advantage but that only shows if I place them side by side and shoot a wideangle scenery shot with lots of fine detail in the distance, otherwise they almost look like identical camera's. Even if I have them all run on full auto unmanned I don't have any post work to match them up.

August 3rd, 2014, 08:29 AM	#5
Noa Put Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Posts: 9,509	Re: Noa, Clive, James and Peter If you want you can join our little group as well.

August 3rd, 2014, 09:05 AM	#6
James Manford Trustee Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: London, UK Posts: 1,393	Re: Noa, Clive, James and Peter I've switched to the PJ780VE (my CX730 started randomly crashing on me ... blue screen with marks through it). It's basically the same camcorder, but an upgrade. Anyway, so to colour match the PJ780VE with my FS700, I grade my FS700 footage instead. Why? it's easier and more flexible to set profiles on the FS700 than the PJ780VE so it's easier to match THAT with the PJ780VE. I'm using Vegas and find Colour Curves, Color Correction to be the best tools to use and then just observe the clip with your own eyes and take it from there ... The weddings I do, doesn't warrant hours and hours of colour grading every clip correctly like hollywood would do it ... I just go with the closest match possible and make sure the content is there so the client is happy. Colour grading is a proper long, tedious process in itself. So trying to get it scientifically / technically correct to the last detail is impossible unless your main focus is just that and somebody else is cutting and joining clips for you.

August 3rd, 2014, 08:06 AM	#4
Colin McDonald Trustee Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Glasgow, Scotland Posts: 1,546	Thought this was going to be a remake of Bob & Carol & Ted & Alice for a moment there. :-)

August 3rd, 2014, 10:47 AM	#7
Clive McLaughlin Major Player Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Belfast Posts: 823	Re: Noa, Clive, James and Peter Yea to be honest - I do very little correction in edit for my full length DVD. I just don't have the time after I've levelled the audio, and selected what to hear and when from five audio tracks - and then run through in real time doing a multicamera edit. I generally only do a little bit to try and recover highlights or bring back some detail in shadows. Noa, do you shoot 4k in the ax100 and downscale, using the ability to crop? Or do you just shoot in HD? Anyone tempted to upgrade their CX730s for the CX900?

August 3rd, 2014, 11:19 AM	#8
James Manford Trustee Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: London, UK Posts: 1,393	Re: Noa, Clive, James and Peter If i'm upgrading the cx730 ... i'd go down Noa's route and go 4K with the AX100.

August 3rd, 2014, 04:41 PM	#10
Dave Blackhurst Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Apple Valley CA Posts: 4,874	Re: Noa, Clive, James and Peter As a US user, I've got the PJ760 (projector version of the 730 I believe). I've tried matching Panasonic cameras, somehow I didn't feel they were quite similar enough in "look", though few people would probably notice. Every time I've tried mixing brands, I've eventually decided to give up on it, they each seem to have a "signature" that's hard to mix and match. You can certainly get "close enough", I've just found it a bit more frustration than it's worth. I need to update the firmware in my AX100 and A/B with the 760... but offhand I'm thinking of keeping the 760 for handheld (magic eyeball is hard to beat), though the AX100 is otherwise a superior camera. I've also got a few accessories that would be orphaned if I sell the 760... As Noa stated, the preferable upgrade path would be to the AX100 rather than a CX900 - prices seem to be coming down a bit, and the 4k is worth it for a number of reasons... I thought about a CX900, but for similar or less money the RX10 is more versatile if you ever need stills... and I'd already bought one of those, so aside from the 30 minute record limit (easy enough to deal with), it's an excellent "B" cam. Toss in a couple RX100 (M2 for now, maybe an M3 when they inevitably drop in price) for alternate angles... nice multicam setup, all the same sensor, easy to match... works for me.