Anyone doing a "no disks" delivery yet?

Clive McLaughlin · October 6th, 2014, 02:09 AM

Quick question folks - My product is 3/4minutes highlights, 20minutes feature, and uncut speeches (maybe 1 hour at most). So what capacity USB would I need realistically with descent HD quality? 4GB? 8GB? More?

Art Varga · October 6th, 2014, 06:35 AM

Clive -my deliverable is about the same as yours and I can get everything onto an 8GB flash drive rendered out to 720P files

Roger Van Duyn · October 6th, 2014, 06:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arthur Gannis

I've been told that there is something called a media player. like a small box with a remote controller that into the box there s provision to plug a USB device/sd card slot etc., with movie files or photo JPG and the output goes via a HDMI to the telly. I was just browsing the net and the one that caught my attention was the WD media player that goes for like $100USD. I don't know if anyone tried these players and how is the picture quality on a 1080P screen.? If anyone has experience with these, I am curious. This way, if the video quality is truly HD I will look more into it to mentioning it to my clients and then can have their video on a removable memory.
Like this one :WD TV | Media Player

A lot of the newer BD players have a USB port also. Mine does and I plug in thumb drives and external hard drives to view material on my tv. Only problem, mine only seems to display JPEG images, not PNG or PSD. But I can play various Mp4s, H264, WMPs, AVI files, MPEG2, and old MPEG1 files as well. The BD was only about 70 bucks at WalMart about 18 months ago. One device that plays all those files, plus BD, DVD, and CD disks.

Roger Gunkel · October 6th, 2014, 08:33 AM

I made myself up a chart of running time and memory requirements for differing quality mp4 rendering. 10,000kbs rendering at 1920x1080 will give a good quality HD for 60 mins approx using around 5 Gbs. 20,000Kbs will give as good as you'll get realistically for 60 mins at 10Gbs. The figures are proportionate, so 5000Kps will give 120mins ising 5Gbs. I tried a number of different short renders in Magix ProX6 using a main concept encoder to get the figures. There are a lot of variables, but the figurs should give an approximate guideline.

I also now use a media player that I bought through Amazon a couple of weeks back. It is a Sumvision Cyclone Micro 2 Plus. It has USB and SD card inputs with HDMI at 1080p and AV outputs. Came with remote control and cost me £22. It's amazingly good for a silly price although the remote is very limited range. Very simple and easy to use, plays just about everything and is only 2.5"x3"x0.5". There is also Micro 4 version which is fully wireless connectable which may be better if you want to be wire free. It enables you to interface your phone, pad or laptop with a smart tv.

Ther are also media players available with onboard screens that can also output to a tv, so another option to allow clients to have their wedding video and photos in a pocket or bag and still show it on a tv, or for demonstration of course.

Roger

Danny O'Neill · October 6th, 2014, 01:07 PM

Clive, we use 8GB sticks.

Something to remember is that the best disk format to use is FAT32. This guarantees compatibility across almost every SmartTV and computer. The downside is the maximum side of any one files is 4GB.

So we have the same as you. Our uncut is rendered out to be 4GB in size. The longer they are, the lower the bitrate.

20 minute feature at 15mbps is around 2gb, highlights obviously less. So easily fits on the 8GB with room to spare.

The only other possible universal(ish) format to use on the stick is exFAT but from what I've read only a handful of smarttvs support this. Our £2k tv which is only 6 months old didn't until i performed a firmware update. Which is not something you want to be getting your clients to do. My parents cheap thing only does FAT32 and thats the end of it.

Clive McLaughlin · October 6th, 2014, 02:24 PM

Thanks very much Danny and Roger. Very helpful info!

Did a recent survey with current bookings.

Showed USB examples and explained benefits and drawbacks. I gave the following options:

a) I'd rather stick with DVDs
b) Might consider USB if it were offered
c) Love them, order them now!

The results so far are about 90% option B, 5% A, 5% C.

I think people would go for it if I threw in one DVD disc, even if it was a generic, unpersonalised disc with company logo and a bog standard case at the bottom of the box...

Chris Harding · October 6th, 2014, 07:03 PM

Hi Clive

I'm not quite awake yet so just to confirm your survey with your bookings you are saying :

90% of brides would consider USB , on 5% want to stick with DVD's and despite the considering 90% of brides considering USB and 5% would actually order them.... Is that correct? I'm confused totally!

I would like to get brides opinions slightly differently like :

Would you prefer :
(a) DVD only
(b) USB only
(c) DVD and USB

I still think that DVD is considered the most recognised format and brides are most comfortable with DVD's so to keep them happy I think you do need to supply DVD's and then anything else that makes your product better. It is frustrating to shoot in HD and have to deliver in SD but what other options do we have?? I obviously would much rather have my weddings viewed in HD (gosh even 1280x720 is better than SD)

I see you have ONLY offered DVD and USB?? What about BD, media players, video books and other options??? Even if a standalone player is required as long as it's under $100 one could very easily merge the extra cost into a package without upsetting the market balance.

Chris

Chris Geiger · October 7th, 2014, 12:06 AM

My feature videos run 90-120 minutes. I include a16g flash drive with each package. That includes room for photos and video. I render to 720 and the file size is 8-11 gig. I use ntfs format. I charge $50 additional for each dvd ordered.

Clive McLaughlin · October 7th, 2014, 01:00 AM

Hi Chris,

Basically nearly all said they would consider choosing USB over DVD, one said definitely USB, one said definitely DVD.

So to me, I suspect they like the idea but have question marks over things like (Will it work on my tv? etc)

Like I've said before, many TVs and even some dvd players have had USB ports for years now - how many regular folk have ever plugged a USB in to view something?

I'd say less that 1%! Its just an unknown for them. If I were to launch it as a deliverable, I would need to accompany it with some video perhaps showing how it looks and what ways it can be used and viewed.

Like I say though, I'm certain everyone would be sold on it if they also received a DVD. The engraved silver USB stick in a presentation box will be the eye catching part (and future proof). The DVD by contrast could have an unpersonalised print/case/menu. It would become an 'add-on' like a freebie, or 'backup'. Nothing to boast about, but included none-the-less.

A batch of generically printed DVDs and cases with some 'weddingy' theme imagery and company logo would save a lot of the time and effort taken up by my current DVD production.

Chris Harding · October 7th, 2014, 01:59 AM

Hi Clive

Thanks for that! I would very much like brides to select USB for delivery (even for backup)

I am quite surprised that some manufacturers of USB drives haven't made a nice white one simply with "Our Wedding" on it ..Over here I can get them printed but I don't want to buy 50 x 8GB USB's at inflated prices and brides don't ask for them so the obvious answer if one buys custom drives is to make it part of the package ..the bride gets USB and a backup DVD end of story and no choices ..otherwise one could be stuck with a box od wedding USB's

My only minor complaint about this is dual rendering ...first to MPEG2 for DVD and then to MP4 for the USB .... if one supplied the DVD as a MP4 backup disk then we only need one render but of course it won't play in a DVD Player.

Chris

Andrew Maclaurin · October 11th, 2014, 05:05 AM

At a recent wedding fair I started asking clients. A lot said they would like a USB for themselves as they understood the loss in quality when using a DVD. Granny and her DVD player was the main thing holding them back but most said their parents had modern TVs. Mind you, I live in a big city where people have easy access to cheap TVs. Almost every house I film in has a beast of a TV and they are almost always in the parents' house. People in their 50s and 60s have no problems with USB TV technology.

Daniel Latimer · October 21st, 2014, 06:03 PM

For those of you who deliver USB, how many do you give?

Chris Harding · October 21st, 2014, 07:51 PM

I would assume much the same as DVD's ..3 sets so each parent gets one and the couple gets one. Are you going to supply disks as well or just USB drives. If it's just USB's then you need a fancy box to present them in so the bride at least feels she is getting value for money.

I always worry that handing over three double DVD sets looks impressive to match the price but a bunch of tiny USB sticks seems to be a let down compared to the money spent.

I think you definitely need to package it up more so it's more than just a tiny handful. Photogs give albums so I wonder if one might be able to have albums with cutouts for USB's inside and a few bridal pics taken by the videographer so at least the bride has something she can store the drives in??

Chris

Daniel Latimer · October 21st, 2014, 08:54 PM

I currently supply 3 DVD or Blu-ray, but I think looking at what other people give in our area I'm behind in giving out USBs as well. Still researching how many and of what.

Clive McLaughlin · October 22nd, 2014, 01:02 AM

The logic of one each set of parents I feel doesn't apply so much for USB though since its transferable data. Take the USB round to the parents stick it in the PC and transfer over.

Do we really need to provide three copies?

I'm currently in the process of getting custom USB packaging made up. Pricey but hopefully worth it. Three for each client would make it far too expensive to justify IMO.

My plan btw is to have bulk printed DVDs with some generic imagery and branding on it. So each couple will get a DVD too at the bottom of the box but I will describe it as a 'back-up' or 'hard copy'. It will be unpersonalised and a basic menu. This from my research will be enough to sway those with doubt to go with my USB package.

October 6th, 2014, 02:09 AM	#46
Clive McLaughlin Major Player Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Belfast Posts: 823	Re: Anyone doing a "no disks" delivery yet? Quick question folks - My product is 3/4minutes highlights, 20minutes feature, and uncut speeches (maybe 1 hour at most). So what capacity USB would I need realistically with descent HD quality? 4GB? 8GB? More?

October 6th, 2014, 06:35 AM	#47
Art Varga Major Player Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Belle Mead, NJ Posts: 552	Re: Anyone doing a "no disks" delivery yet? Clive -my deliverable is about the same as yours and I can get everything onto an 8GB flash drive rendered out to 720P files __________________ __________________________________ - Art Varga www.vargaproductions.com

October 6th, 2014, 08:33 AM	#49
Roger Gunkel Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: LIncolnshire, UK Posts: 2,213	Re: Anyone doing a "no disks" delivery yet? I made myself up a chart of running time and memory requirements for differing quality mp4 rendering. 10,000kbs rendering at 1920x1080 will give a good quality HD for 60 mins approx using around 5 Gbs. 20,000Kbs will give as good as you'll get realistically for 60 mins at 10Gbs. The figures are proportionate, so 5000Kps will give 120mins ising 5Gbs. I tried a number of different short renders in Magix ProX6 using a main concept encoder to get the figures. There are a lot of variables, but the figurs should give an approximate guideline. I also now use a media player that I bought through Amazon a couple of weeks back. It is a Sumvision Cyclone Micro 2 Plus. It has USB and SD card inputs with HDMI at 1080p and AV outputs. Came with remote control and cost me £22. It's amazingly good for a silly price although the remote is very limited range. Very simple and easy to use, plays just about everything and is only 2.5"x3"x0.5". There is also Micro 4 version which is fully wireless connectable which may be better if you want to be wire free. It enables you to interface your phone, pad or laptop with a smart tv. Ther are also media players available with onboard screens that can also output to a tv, so another option to allow clients to have their wedding video and photos in a pocket or bag and still show it on a tv, or for demonstration of course. Roger Last edited by Roger Gunkel; October 6th, 2014 at 02:46 PM. Reason: Typos

October 6th, 2014, 01:07 PM	#50
Danny O'Neill Major Player Join Date: May 2008 Location: Northampton, UK Posts: 915	Re: Anyone doing a "no disks" delivery yet? Clive, we use 8GB sticks. Something to remember is that the best disk format to use is FAT32. This guarantees compatibility across almost every SmartTV and computer. The downside is the maximum side of any one files is 4GB. So we have the same as you. Our uncut is rendered out to be 4GB in size. The longer they are, the lower the bitrate. 20 minute feature at 15mbps is around 2gb, highlights obviously less. So easily fits on the 8GB with room to spare. The only other possible universal(ish) format to use on the stick is exFAT but from what I've read only a handful of smarttvs support this. Our £2k tv which is only 6 months old didn't until i performed a firmware update. Which is not something you want to be getting your clients to do. My parents cheap thing only does FAT32 and thats the end of it. __________________ mintyslippers.com

October 6th, 2014, 02:24 PM	#51
Clive McLaughlin Major Player Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Belfast Posts: 823	Re: Anyone doing a "no disks" delivery yet? Thanks very much Danny and Roger. Very helpful info! Did a recent survey with current bookings. Showed USB examples and explained benefits and drawbacks. I gave the following options: a) I'd rather stick with DVDs b) Might consider USB if it were offered c) Love them, order them now! The results so far are about 90% option B, 5% A, 5% C. I think people would go for it if I threw in one DVD disc, even if it was a generic, unpersonalised disc with company logo and a bog standard case at the bottom of the box...

October 6th, 2014, 07:03 PM	#52
Chris Harding Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 8,441	Re: Anyone doing a "no disks" delivery yet? Hi Clive I'm not quite awake yet so just to confirm your survey with your bookings you are saying : 90% of brides would consider USB , on 5% want to stick with DVD's and despite the considering 90% of brides considering USB and 5% would actually order them.... Is that correct? I'm confused totally! I would like to get brides opinions slightly differently like : Would you prefer : (a) DVD only (b) USB only (c) DVD and USB I still think that DVD is considered the most recognised format and brides are most comfortable with DVD's so to keep them happy I think you do need to supply DVD's and then anything else that makes your product better. It is frustrating to shoot in HD and have to deliver in SD but what other options do we have?? I obviously would much rather have my weddings viewed in HD (gosh even 1280x720 is better than SD) I see you have ONLY offered DVD and USB?? What about BD, media players, video books and other options??? Even if a standalone player is required as long as it's under $100 one could very easily merge the extra cost into a package without upsetting the market balance. Chris

October 7th, 2014, 12:06 AM	#53
Chris Geiger Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Fresno, CA Posts: 39	Re: Anyone doing a "no disks" delivery yet? My feature videos run 90-120 minutes. I include a16g flash drive with each package. That includes room for photos and video. I render to 720 and the file size is 8-11 gig. I use ntfs format. I charge $50 additional for each dvd ordered.

October 7th, 2014, 01:00 AM	#54
Clive McLaughlin Major Player Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Belfast Posts: 823	Re: Anyone doing a "no disks" delivery yet? Hi Chris, Basically nearly all said they would consider choosing USB over DVD, one said definitely USB, one said definitely DVD. So to me, I suspect they like the idea but have question marks over things like (Will it work on my tv? etc) Like I've said before, many TVs and even some dvd players have had USB ports for years now - how many regular folk have ever plugged a USB in to view something? I'd say less that 1%! Its just an unknown for them. If I were to launch it as a deliverable, I would need to accompany it with some video perhaps showing how it looks and what ways it can be used and viewed. Like I say though, I'm certain everyone would be sold on it if they also received a DVD. The engraved silver USB stick in a presentation box will be the eye catching part (and future proof). The DVD by contrast could have an unpersonalised print/case/menu. It would become an 'add-on' like a freebie, or 'backup'. Nothing to boast about, but included none-the-less. A batch of generically printed DVDs and cases with some 'weddingy' theme imagery and company logo would save a lot of the time and effort taken up by my current DVD production.

October 7th, 2014, 01:59 AM	#55
Chris Harding Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 8,441	Re: Anyone doing a "no disks" delivery yet? Hi Clive Thanks for that! I would very much like brides to select USB for delivery (even for backup) I am quite surprised that some manufacturers of USB drives haven't made a nice white one simply with "Our Wedding" on it ..Over here I can get them printed but I don't want to buy 50 x 8GB USB's at inflated prices and brides don't ask for them so the obvious answer if one buys custom drives is to make it part of the package ..the bride gets USB and a backup DVD end of story and no choices ..otherwise one could be stuck with a box od wedding USB's My only minor complaint about this is dual rendering ...first to MPEG2 for DVD and then to MP4 for the USB .... if one supplied the DVD as a MP4 backup disk then we only need one render but of course it won't play in a DVD Player. Chris

October 11th, 2014, 05:05 AM	#56
Andrew Maclaurin Major Player Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Madrid, Spain Posts: 396	Re: Anyone doing a "no disks" delivery yet? At a recent wedding fair I started asking clients. A lot said they would like a USB for themselves as they understood the loss in quality when using a DVD. Granny and her DVD player was the main thing holding them back but most said their parents had modern TVs. Mind you, I live in a big city where people have easy access to cheap TVs. Almost every house I film in has a beast of a TV and they are almost always in the parents' house. People in their 50s and 60s have no problems with USB TV technology.

October 21st, 2014, 06:03 PM	#57
Daniel Latimer Major Player Join Date: May 2012 Location: Nashua, NH Posts: 209	Re: Anyone doing a "no disks" delivery yet? For those of you who deliver USB, how many do you give?

October 21st, 2014, 07:51 PM	#58
Chris Harding Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 8,441	Re: Anyone doing a "no disks" delivery yet? I would assume much the same as DVD's ..3 sets so each parent gets one and the couple gets one. Are you going to supply disks as well or just USB drives. If it's just USB's then you need a fancy box to present them in so the bride at least feels she is getting value for money. I always worry that handing over three double DVD sets looks impressive to match the price but a bunch of tiny USB sticks seems to be a let down compared to the money spent. I think you definitely need to package it up more so it's more than just a tiny handful. Photogs give albums so I wonder if one might be able to have albums with cutouts for USB's inside and a few bridal pics taken by the videographer so at least the bride has something she can store the drives in?? Chris

October 21st, 2014, 08:54 PM	#59
Daniel Latimer Major Player Join Date: May 2012 Location: Nashua, NH Posts: 209	Re: Anyone doing a "no disks" delivery yet? I currently supply 3 DVD or Blu-ray, but I think looking at what other people give in our area I'm behind in giving out USBs as well. Still researching how many and of what.

October 22nd, 2014, 01:02 AM	#60
Clive McLaughlin Major Player Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Belfast Posts: 823	Re: Anyone doing a "no disks" delivery yet? The logic of one each set of parents I feel doesn't apply so much for USB though since its transferable data. Take the USB round to the parents stick it in the PC and transfer over. Do we really need to provide three copies? I'm currently in the process of getting custom USB packaging made up. Pricey but hopefully worth it. Three for each client would make it far too expensive to justify IMO. My plan btw is to have bulk printed DVDs with some generic imagery and branding on it. So each couple will get a DVD too at the bottom of the box but I will describe it as a 'back-up' or 'hard copy'. It will be unpersonalised and a basic menu. This from my research will be enough to sway those with doubt to go with my USB package.