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Old December 16th, 2014, 10:28 AM   #76
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Re: How I hate DVDs....

As inexpensive as Blu-Ray players are these days, why not bundle one in with the package? And maybe add an option for additional players for the bride and grooms's parents, if they're without. You can pitch the convenience of the family all owning the same make and model... one 12-year-old niece or nephew could set up all of 'em.
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Old December 16th, 2014, 10:39 AM   #77
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Re: How I hate DVDs....

The problem lies with warranty if the players malfunction, where I live it's a 2 year warranty so if you have 30 weddings a year it means 30 players end up at your client every year who might come back (within a 2 year period after the purchase) with a issue, maybe not hardware but user related, Then I would have to send them back to the store where I got them from and I get stuck between the service department and the client, maybe they will charge if they can't find anything wrong and then the discussion start.
Even if they don't break down you would be surprised how many don't know how to install or operate such a player and they will be calling me with any problems they have with it, no thanks, a disc and a usb stick is as far as I would go and the rest they can figure out themselves :)
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Old December 16th, 2014, 11:01 AM   #78
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Re: How I hate DVDs....

I agree I would not want to get tangled up with possible problems with Bluray hardware.

There seems to be an assumption that all TVs will have a spare HDMI socket. They may have a pre-HDMI TV or one which until relatively recently came with just two HDMI sockets rather than four or more. The existing sockets are probably already occupied by a satellite or cable box and a games console and possibly their existing DVd player which they may prefer to keep hooked up if they are familiar with using it or if it has other functions such as better Freeview reception than their TV or a hard drive to record on etc. Do you want to get involved in HDMI switching units? Thought not.

They may prefer Component cables rather than HDMI cables - I've seen very sophisticated home cinema systems not using HDMI at all, as in this City flat of a couple of London investment bankers:

http://www.ashtonlamont.co.uk/620-bp...10-04_bpps.jpg

..... and yes I was told to take my shoes off before walking on their pure white floors :- )

If they are already set up for home cinema you've got to think about routing the players audio through the amp, and so on. They may have set it up themselves initially and then forgotten what they did, or they may have had a specialist install who knows how long ago.

Sure, most of the time it will be a simple case of hook the Bluray player to the TVs spare HDMI, power them up, make sure the player is visible and selectable in the TVs menus (don't assume auto as the TV may have been set up to ignore all but the sockets that were in use at the time it was acquired). But there will be a significant tail of queries.

I can't see Bluray surviving anyway. For some time now if you buy a Bluray film you often get a DVD version thrown in plus a facility to download a high res file. If that doesn't announce that the Bluray vendors have accepted its inevitable death I don't know what does.

I have three bluray players. Seemed like a good idea at the time but now I only ever use them to double check clients discs before dispatch. I always have more than I can ever catch up with on my satellite disc, I never have enough time to dabble in the BBC's iplayer or sucklike, and my library of Bluray greats gathers dust.

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Old December 16th, 2014, 12:24 PM   #79
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Re: How I hate DVDs....

I stand by what I previously said, that it is up to us to supply clients with a product consistent with what they have seen in examples. If they are happy with it when they book, then they will get that same quality, but I am not prepared to give any guarantees as to how that product will perform as technology moves on in the future.

We need to supply on a format that clients are comfortable with now and happy to view on their current tv. Whether that is SD, HD, or 4k seems to be up to the client, just as we buy cameras that are consistent with how we want to film, the only difference being that we have a pretty good idea of what we may be asked for over the next 5 years.

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Old December 16th, 2014, 01:33 PM   #80
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Re: How I hate DVDs....

Roger I'm not on some damn fool crusade to bring HD to DVD happy Brides nor do I expect to handheld them in the future regarding storing of their Wedding Video. However some do not realise that DVD isn't HD, others may not realise the benefit and quality and when it comes to long term storage and playback, most are ignorant on the risks until too late.

Now I'm neither a shop nor car salesman, I'm someone whose been approached and booked to film their Wedding and supply in a format they can watch in the future. In doing it doesn't hurt to explain the advantages of the different formats and provide an opinion on long term playback and storage. Each January, I provide all my clients for the year, a brief guide on my service and outline any changes in Post Production and delivery. This year I decided to provide couples with 3 options for the first copy, DVD, Bluray and USB, but gave no details on the merits of each. Next year I shall add this. After all they are approaching me for a professional service and my professional opinion will I hope be appreciated and seen as a willingness to give them the best version of their Wedding Video as possible. Sadly this is not DVD. However at the end of the day, it is always their decision. I'll advise what I think is best, but I won't force them to one delivery format despite my own opinion.
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Old December 16th, 2014, 04:43 PM   #81
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Re: How I hate DVDs....

Steve- I really can't see any difference between what you tell your clients and what I do, with the probable exception that I also have a 3d option. I shoot and edit in HD and give the finished product in whatever format they require. I don't get asked for Bluray, but do sometimes get asked for HD, in which case I supply them with a usb. I also very occasionally get asked to put their wedding on iPad for them. However, though I let clients know that they can have an HD version, the preference from my clients is nearly always dvd.

Having said that, I have filmed and photographed one wedding in 3d this year and have another in February, both of which were requested and will be delivered in HD 3d and 2d, with 2d dvds aswell.

The only difference I see to you, is regarding what will be playable in a few years and whether I should worry about it, which I don't.

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Old December 16th, 2014, 04:45 PM   #82
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Re: How I hate DVDs....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Gunkel View Post
I stand by what I previously said, that it is up to us to supply clients with a product consistent with what they have seen in examples. If they are happy with it when they book, then they will get that same quality, but I am not prepared to give any guarantees as to how that product will perform as technology moves on in the future.
Roger
Seems fair really, though some people may want to be made aware of possible issues while others will be blind to anything but price.

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Originally Posted by Steve Burkett View Post
Roger I'm not on some damn fool crusade to bring HD to DVD [ ...... ] However some do not realise that DVD isn't HD [.....] most are ignorant on the risks until too late.
Ain't that the truth... I've had some know it all arm chair internet browser type grooms (2 to be precise) tell me I don't know what I'm talking about and of course DVD is HD otherwise it would look really bad! When I ask them why they thought Blu-ray was introduced they kind of stumble around a little and try to change the subject.

I just had an inquiry specifically asking for DVD only, not highlights, no HD, no USB, they're just interested in getting DVD. Should I tell them to go away and come back when they finally appreciate how much better high-def footage looks or wait until they've seen 4K? Errr..... no, I think that DVD only is a doable situation, I just hate watching DVDs now after seeing the HD source and always feel I'm short changing them. I guess I need to get over it and be done.
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Old December 16th, 2014, 05:23 PM   #83
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Re: How I hate DVDs....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Gunkel View Post
Steve- I really can't see any difference between what you tell your clients and what I do
Well as a third of my couples requested an HD delivered format this year, a mix between Bluray and USB, favouring the Bluray, there's obviously some difference in our approach. I'm down to 2 blank bluray cases from 25 ordered this year, though some of those were extra copies admittedly. I'm hoping for better results next year. :)

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Originally Posted by Dave Partington View Post
I just had an inquiry specifically asking for DVD only, not highlights, no HD, no USB, they're just interested in getting DVD. Should I tell them to go away and come back when they finally appreciate how much better high-def footage looks or wait until they've seen 4K? Errr..... no, I think that DVD only is a doable situation, I just hate watching DVDs now after seeing the HD source and always feel I'm short changing them. I guess I need to get over it and be done.
There's nothing wrong in hating seeing good footage ruined. After all we invest in HD cameras, work to capture a good quality video, then proceed to interlace it, reduce it's size and squeeze it into a 4:3 pixel ratio to then be stretched back to 16:9 across a widescreen tele. Can you imagine Photographers torturing their photos in such a way.
That said, I'd take the money for a DVD only job. Business comes before art.
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Old January 10th, 2015, 01:28 PM   #84
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Re: How I hate DVDs....

Prior to 2010 everything I shot was on tape and made into dvds and I have several thousand which I'm now in the process of copying from the dvd to hardrive with the view to making these videos re-available to those in the videos.
To my delight all of the discs from back in 2005 which I'm doing (the oldest) at the moment (several hundred ) are just fine with no degradation whatsoever So thats about 10 years and a few of the cheaper ones look a little pale but overall they are in excellent shape

They were stored on 100pk spindles in cardboard boxes

On another note. dvds burnt to disc with edius 7 from Sony xvac-s 4k shot on a ax100 with decent light arn't too bad .Not quite as good as old hdv but approaching

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Old January 11th, 2015, 03:06 AM   #85
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Re: How I hate DVDs....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce Dempsey View Post
On another note. dvds burnt to disc with edius 7 from Sony xvac-s 4k shot on a ax100 with decent light arn't too bad .Not quite as good as old hdv but approaching
Could you explain what you mean by this?
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Old January 11th, 2015, 03:41 AM   #86
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Re: How I hate DVDs....

The 720x480 16:9 DVDs produced from 4K source footage off a fdr-ax100 and shot in good light are the best I've seen but still crappy when played full screen on a big tv which of course is the problem. They all have big screens
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Old January 11th, 2015, 07:00 AM   #87
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Re: How I hate DVDs....

One reason may be the 4K from the AX100 is 30P but all your tape video was 60i so twice as smooth motion. Makes a big difference with any motion at all. Also if the project was over about 75 mins Edius is only 1 pass encode for DVD and will also not be as good as TMPGenc 2 pass encode and scaling. I export HQ from the Edius timeline and encode and scale in TMPGenc , 2 pass VBR for much better results.

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Old January 11th, 2015, 07:55 AM   #88
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Re: How I hate DVDs....

Ron, do you use authoringworks for the encode and scaling or videomastering works?
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Old January 11th, 2015, 01:22 PM   #89
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Re: How I hate DVDs....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce Dempsey View Post
The 720x480 16:9 DVDs produced from 4K source footage off a fdr-ax100 and shot in good light are the best I've seen but still crappy when played full screen on a big tv which of course is the problem. They all have big screens
So you were comparing 4K downscaled to SD to the native 1440x1080 from HDV, rather than the HDV downscaled to SD? I'm confused.

SD just looks bad from anything...
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Old January 11th, 2015, 02:44 PM   #90
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Re: How I hate DVDs....

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Originally Posted by Noa Put View Post
Ron, do you use authoringworks for the encode and scaling or videomastering works?
I use TMPGenc T4 most of the time rather than T5 as I think it does better job. Now with Edius 7.4 export a HQX fine file to go to TMPGEnc. I use Sony DVD Architect for authoring for DVD and Bluray ( just change the project parameters and files so only author once). Bluray file comes straight from Edius with Quicksync encode though TMPGenc batch could do both.


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