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Old January 3rd, 2015, 06:37 AM   #16
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Re: Not sure if UHD is going to be like 720p was.

Walking in to Sainsburys, Tesco, or Asda ... I seem to always easily find DVDs (they're at the checkouts and pretty much in sight) but looking for the Bluray section always takes a little more time.

Why is that ? because the masses simply don't care about Bluray or 4K. You have to be a bit of a movie buff / tecchie to want the absolute best quality.
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Old January 3rd, 2015, 08:04 AM   #17
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Re: Not sure if UHD is going to be like 720p was.

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Walking in to Sainsburys, Tesco, or Asda ... I seem to always easily find DVDs (they're at the checkouts and pretty much in sight) but looking for the Bluray section always takes a little more time.

Why is that ? because the masses simply don't care about Bluray or 4K. You have to be a bit of a movie buff / tecchie to want the absolute best quality.
It's funny how some try to group people in to some collective term called masses, as if one rule applies to everyone. 1/3 of my clients have asked for HD delivery, predominantly bluray but also USB stick delivery; are all these movie buffs? My parents, who are definitely neither techie or movie buffs regularly watch HD channels, namely nature shows and some dramas where they feel the better quality is noticeable. For news, quiz shows they happily settle for SD. Looking at viewing figures for TV shows in the UK, I see approx 20% of BBC and ITV viewers watch programmes on the HD channels. So yes the majority are still watching SD, but 1 in 5 is more than a niche market when you're talking audience in millions.

Now Blurays are hardly in the same small category as laser discs were in the 90's, which were certainly more for movie buffs. All HMV stores I've been to have had a massive bluray section equal to DVD and I've found blurays of all recent releases quite easily in all my local supermarkets. So I don't think its just techie and movie buffs who are buying them. So whilst DVD is still the preferred format, with video streaming also becoming more popular, HD viewing is only going to increase.

I did read an article that suggested that HD is a failure though because it offers only a small increase in resolution over SD. If 4k TV's do take off, and manufacturers are going to do all they can to make sure they do in the face of competition from tablets and the like; will SD still be enjoyed when the increase in upscalling is closer to 16 times rather than 4. Perhaps 4K TV's will push people to value HD content more in the future. However this is speculation.

Frankly if some Videographers are happy with their HD content being viewed on DVD that's fine; I'm not. I'm starting to work more and more in 4K and on a personal level am enjoying the quality of the footage and will from this year start to strongly recommend HD delivery to my clients, whilst delivering some 4K content via Youtube. Whether they take it or want it, is of course up to them. In a competing market, I prefer a policy of being ahead of the game and not two steps behind. I shall have my first 4k Wedding in the Autumn, which came considerably sooner than expected. This booking wouldn't have been possible if I hadn't already taken one step towards 4K in 2014, so I shall not hold back further because 2/3s of my clients still want SD delivery. Tomorrows clients may tell a different story.

Back to the original question though, I don't see UHD as another 720. It's a lot closer to 4k than 720 is to true HD. TV's that offer 720 were marketed as HD ready, but I'm seeing TV's and monitors that are UHD and marketed as 4K rather than UHD or 4k ready.

Last edited by Steve Burkett; January 3rd, 2015 at 08:44 AM. Reason: Fixing grammar
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Old January 3rd, 2015, 08:14 AM   #18
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Re: Not sure if UHD is going to be like 720p was.

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Frankly if Videographers are happy with their HD content being viewed on DVD that's fine.
That's why I recently changed my packages to include blu-ray and HD files on a usb stick only and have dvd as a paying option. In that way I"m providing them with a high quality file and it is up to the client if they still want their lower quality dvd's.
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Old January 3rd, 2015, 11:48 AM   #19
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Re: Not sure if UHD is going to be like 720p was.

This discussion could also be about 3D. That, in the end, did not make people re-buy their entire movie collection and buy a new TV or for folks here on this forum, buy a new camera. I thought there would be way more 4K TVs under the Christmas tree last year. There weren't a lot. This year prices have come down but the indicators for me are still not there. The big question is, where is the content? I have decided to take things into my own hands. With the launch of the Atomos Shogun I've shot and posted four UHD videos to youtube now. I am guessing these new UHD TVs with the YouTube widget can select the 2160 setting. Not sure about the bottle necks in terms of download speed. I'd like to see YouTube and other content providers doing more with pre-loaders. I am making most of what I shoot available for download from MediaFire so that you can has a less compressed local copy.

Beware, full disclosure. Someone mentioned sales reps whispering in peoples' ears. I am a sales rep. I am a DVinfo sponsor. I am not saying that this entitles me to be an expert in any or all areas but I do think that there is a lack of focus on PRODUCERS. I don't care to debate CONSUMERS much. At work I sell products to BOTH.

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Old January 3rd, 2015, 12:23 PM   #20
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Re: Not sure if UHD is going to be like 720p was.

There's also this bit of good news for those few of us in favor of 4k...

Vimeo sneaks in 4K streaming. Hooray! | Philip Bloom
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Old January 3rd, 2015, 12:59 PM   #21
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Re: Not sure if UHD is going to be like 720p was.

I'm guilty. My previous response was a bit snarky. I am not quite sure how I have ended up playing the role of an old cynic here, but I took it and ran with it. And I am NOT old ;)

In reality my view on this subject is the same as it has always been. I will provide whatever format and product my clients request of me. Period. With that said, I do not embrace these changes because it is all about the ROI for me. Keeping up with the technological changes in our industry is expensive. Yet there is no big return on the other side for us. No one is paying us more because we trashed our not so old equipment and made an investment in all new systems just to stay in business.

Phil, You have ALWAYS been a class act on this forum. Not once have I ever read anything from you I interpreted as an attempt to sell goods. I wish you would contribute more often. Your view on these things is valuable to me.

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Old January 3rd, 2015, 06:35 PM   #22
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Re: Not sure if UHD is going to be like 720p was.

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Originally Posted by Christian Nachtrieb View Post
There's also this bit of good news for those few of us in favor of 4k...

Vimeo sneaks in 4K streaming. Hooray! | Philip Bloom
Nice! We've been shooting 4K as well, but haven't delivered anything yet. I hope they figure out a way to allow people to select 4k, hd or sd. It looks like it's either 4k or SD.
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Old January 4th, 2015, 10:36 AM   #23
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Re: Not sure if UHD is going to be like 720p was.

So purely out of interest, what download speed do I need to have available to watch let's say 30 minutes of 4k video via Vimeo?

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Old January 4th, 2015, 02:09 PM   #24
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Re: Not sure if UHD is going to be like 720p was.

I still have some clients that have trouble playing back 720p videos on Vimeo so I would be hesitant to send a video to a client as 4K unless I also sent them another link at a lower resolution. Once internet speeds catch up then 4K streaming will be amazing, but around here (Virginia) I can't send clients 1080p because almost none of them can play it back without it stuttering.
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Old January 4th, 2015, 05:16 PM   #25
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Re: Not sure if UHD is going to be like 720p was.

My findings are the same in the UK Mike, my own friends and family over a wide area of the country have frequent problems maintaining smooth HD downloads for more than a few minutes at a time. Many have problems with any HD stream at all and ISPs are still trying to roll out connections that will allow HD before they even think about 4K speeds in the average home.

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Old January 5th, 2015, 06:23 AM   #26
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Re: Not sure if UHD is going to be like 720p was.

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Originally Posted by Roger Gunkel View Post
My findings are the same in the UK Mike, my own friends and family over a wide area of the country have frequent problems maintaining smooth HD downloads for more than a few minutes at a time. Many have problems with any HD stream at all and ISPs are still trying to roll out connections that will allow HD before they even think about 4K speeds in the average home.

Roger
I'm pretty lucky, I have 100mbit download speeds so I can play this stuff no problem.

However, friends and family still have no idea what 4K is, even my wife has only just started watching HD channels via netflix but I'd say she really can't tell if she's watching HD or SD most of the time.
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Old January 5th, 2015, 10:50 AM   #27
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Re: Not sure if UHD is going to be like 720p was.

I saw Phillip Bloom post the 4K vimeo news over the weekend, and this morning I saw Roku is touting 4K stuff coming very soon as well.
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Old January 5th, 2015, 11:13 AM   #28
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Re: Not sure if UHD is going to be like 720p was.

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I saw Phillip Bloom post the 4K vimeo news over the weekend, and this morning I saw Roku is touting 4K stuff coming very soon as well.
Going to be a few years before it hits mainstream I think; still nice to see some positive steps in embracing the format.
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Old January 5th, 2015, 01:57 PM   #29
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Re: Not sure if UHD is going to be like 720p was.

A lot of low end cheap computers (especially laptops) cant even properly stream 4K on the web (youtube, for example) so I'm not even remotely concerned about putting 4k on the web as of yet.
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Old January 5th, 2015, 02:34 PM   #30
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Re: Not sure if UHD is going to be like 720p was.

It looks like a CES today a new 4K consortium has been formed by major industry players to actively promote 4K development for broadcast.

In other news, I did a bridal show yesterday and of all the ~100 brides I talked to, not one asked if I delivered in 4K. LOL .... for that matter, no one asked if I deliver in HD either.
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