incamera stabilisation at DVinfo.net

Noa Put · February 6th, 2015, 05:29 AM

This might belong more in the camera section but I find it very valuable to use at weddings, not sure if anyone has been following the announcement of the updated Olympus omd-em5? John Brawley did a excellent review about the camera (https://johnbrawley.wordpress.com/20...ng-wilderness/) and his curiousity video that can be found on vimeo looks very good but what interested me most was his BTS video which you can see below.

At 02:35 he shows the effectiveness of a 45mm prime shot handheld with and without IBIS and that is simply ridiculous, you can also see several handheld shots from his film where he just walks backward while only holding the camera in his hands with no other rig and the result is just amazing.

Since I heavily invested in M4/3 camera's and lenses I always wanted to get the em5 or 1 for video, just for its amazing stabilization but it was the non pal framerates and bad codec that held me back so far.

Now they added pal frame rates and added bitrates comparable to what the GH3 delivers, their codec might still be a generation behind on the current offerings but their stabilization is like unseen in any camera that is available today.

Just the thought of using a cheap 45mm f1.8 prime or even my 75mm f1.8 and shoot handheld without having to use a monopod is making me dream :)

The only concern I have is the fact that you can't change exposure while shooting using the dials and you have to go into the menu to make changes on the touch lcd screen, as I understand it's exactly the same limitation the older EM5 had but not the EM1 so maybe it's Olympus way of protecting their EM1 sales? The em5 II body has a starting price of 1100 euro while the old version is 800 euro.

Is anyone considering getting this camera for weddings?

Ian Atkins · February 6th, 2015, 02:17 PM

Noa,
I am absolutely buying the EM-5ii. As you know, I shoot on two GH3s and have a EM-1 as a backup cam, even though it is limited to 30fps and the codec isn't that great.
I plan to trade up my EM-1 to get the EM-5 and will probably wind up using it more than my GH3 because it apparently has 1 stop better low light performance to boot!
The stabilization in the EM-1 was phenomenal. I use it with my 75mm 1.8 all the time and it is just a perfect combination.
For me, M4/3 is the perfect balance between getting that DLSR look while maintaining a nice balance of weight, size, and functionality.

Noa Put · February 6th, 2015, 02:36 PM

The problem is they might introduce the EM1 not so long after this but I expect it to be at least around 1600 euro, there where some rumors that it would support 4K but that all remains to be seen. Fact is that beside this annoying expsoure change limitation while shooting the EM5 has finally matured to a camera that is ready to shoot a bit more serious video, good enough for weddings I think. I will just wait and see how it does based on the first user vids that appear but there is a big chance one of my dslr's will be sold in favor of this one.

Daniel Latimer · February 6th, 2015, 03:49 PM

It is interesting. I also use GH4s now. I will wait and see as well.

Really, I'm hoping the GH5 will have IBIS. It will be great for use with manual lenses.

Noa Put · February 7th, 2015, 02:55 AM

I wouldn't count too much on IBIS in the GH5, but then again, you"ll never know. It almost looks like there is some kind of agreement between Panasonic and Olympus, something like "you keep the IBIS but we want better video"
Before the GH4 camera came out Olympus refused to update their camera's with better codecs and I"m sure they are not that stupid knowing they'd sell a boatload more EM5's and even EM1's if they had the same videoquality when the GH3 was popular.
Now the GH4 is out they are suddenly able to make the long asked improvements but not up to the level of the GH4, it still is one generation behind.
Also the way they cripple the fact that you can't change exposure while recording looks intentional, I read the EM1 can change exposure while recording? If that is true they again seem to deliberately cripple a important function which might be reserved for a updated EM1 so it has enough reasons for people to upgrade, it could also mean the EM1 is not getting 4K as some rumors said.

A lot of "if"s" :) There are slowly more videos coming out and they all look better then what I saw from the first em5, I only need to have some more confirmation about low light performance, I would hope at least the same performance as the GH3, some users said 1600iso would be the highest they would go but I hope someone will do a iso comparison with the GH3 or 4.

Dave Partington · February 7th, 2015, 04:28 AM

The GH4 and EM1 are currently my favourite cameras, to the point I rarely pick up the C100 anymore.

The EM5II looks interesting, though I'm waiting for more substantial reviews before spending the money.

The IBIS is awesome, but not perfect.

I'm not expecting the GH5 to have IBIS because Panasonic said they had to add better heat sinks to the GH4 to run in 4K mode and it's unlikely they could do that and still float the sensor with IBIS.

Noa Put · February 7th, 2015, 04:51 AM

I have seen that the IBIS can create some wobbly effect that looks like plugin stabilizers can cause when you see the entire image deform a bit. Does the EM1 display that behavior as well? The sony a7 II inbuild stabilization did seem like a good option but from the samples I have seen it's nowhere near as good as what Olympus can do, it still is very jittery.

Dave Partington · February 7th, 2015, 12:01 PM

It's not perfect by a long way, but it's better than no IBIS at all. The biggest issue for me is the codec / frame rate combination.

If you want Easy + Good then the DJI Ronin is probably better, albeit bigger, heavier, and more expensive.

Daniel Latimer · February 7th, 2015, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Partington

It's not perfect by a long way, but it's better than no IBIS at all. The biggest issue for me is the codec / frame rate combination.

If you want Easy + Good then the DJI Ronin is probably better, albeit bigger, heavier, and more expensive.

I have a Ronin and I agree it gets some great tracking shots, but it's not the right tool for every job. The IBIS would be beneficial on a monopod. While the monopod keeps it relatively still, the IBIS would help to stop the small movements I get while using manual lenses.

Craig McKenna · February 7th, 2015, 02:49 PM

Haha I nearly made this post on announcement day, then held back from doing so because it's just 'weddings and events'. Nearly emailed Noa as well, as I knew this would be his dream!

The EM1 will come next January / February if Olympus continues its release schedule with the EM10 follow up in 2017 and EM5 III in 2018.

As for the camera itself, I also found the one problem that Noa has found - you still can't change the exposure. For me, this makes the camera perfect for prep shots of objects etc. but less so for important parts of the wedding day.

The EM1 II is the camera that I'm waiting for. Under Noa's theory that they have to stay a step back from the GH series, we can only expect the EM1 to have 4K and hopefully a better codec still - say 100mb, rather than 60+ that the EM5 II has currently.

It's really exciting to see Oly finally blowing up the video section, but they're still a step behind. For me, I'm waiting for the EM1 MK II. That should be a blowaway camera in terms of stills and video.

Ultimately, the EM5 II has THE best IBIS to date in an Olympus camera. It really is epic. I have shot a few times with my EM5, particularly in the summer break when I headed to Berlin, but it's nowhere near as enjoyable to shoot with as a GH camera, namely for its lack of options, inability to change exposure etc.

At least you can change the aperture / shutter speed etc. through the LCD during record time. It's close to being THE camera to get, but not quite.

To me, if GH4 stood for 4K, then GH5 stands for 5 axis. Olympus and Panasonic have formed an amazing partnership, I see no reason why we can't eventually see the 5 axis come to Panny, even if they have invested most of their 'pro' lenses to have IS built in.

Also, for the EM5 II, I've seen amazingly clean ISO 6400 shots coming from it - I really think this sits on a par IQ wise with the EM1 with cleaner low light performance - which the original EM5 had over the EM1 anyways. It's just PDAF and a few other features, particularly form that the EM1 beats the EM5 in. If you add in the fact that you need the battery grip to fully realise the EM5 MK II, I'd rather wait for the EM1 MK II anyways.

*EDIT* Also Noa, I am chuft to see the G2x in motion - that's the gimbal that I want to buy next! I'm getting the 12-40 Olympus 2.8 lens, and later, the 40-150, followed by the G2x. Can't wait to start using it! Looks amazing and perfect as a gimbal for the GH4!

Noa Put · February 7th, 2015, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Partington

It's not perfect by a long way, but it's better than no IBIS at all.

That surprises me a bit because when I see those demo's from the mark II where they switch between no IBIS and with the difference is very large, maybe the improvement now is more visible?

Noa Put · February 7th, 2015, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craig McKenna

As for the camera itself, I also found the one problem that Noa has found - you still can't change the exposure. For me, this makes the camera perfect for prep shots of objects etc. but less so for important parts of the wedding day.

Yeah, that exposure change thing, a way around that would be to get a lens with a iris ring but it's quite stupid they still have crippled that part. During bride prep I currently use my sony rx10 and gh4, the rx10 is always used for run and gun, my gh4 doesn't come near to the rx10 flexibility in quickly choosing the right f-stop or ISO + I can make changes while shooting with very gradual exposure changes, very easy to change even under time pressure. I might end up selling my gh3 for the em5 though not sure what I still will get for it, prices for a new gh3 are down to 800 euro so more then 400-500 euro I can't be asking for it. But I still have some time to read more user reviews.

Craig McKenna · February 7th, 2015, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noa Put

Yeah, that exposure change thing, a way around that would be to get a lens with a iris ring but it's quite stupid they still have crippled that part. During bride prep I currently use my sony rx10 and gh4, the rx10 is always used for run and gun, my gh4 doesn't come near to the rx10 flexibility in quickly choosing the right f-stop or ISO + I can make changes while shooting with very gradual exposure changes, very easy to change even under time pressure. I might end up selling my gh3 for the em5 though not sure what I still will get for it, prices for a new gh3 are down to 800 euro so more then 400-500 euro I can't be asking for it. But I still have some time to read more user reviews.

Yeah, someone on Facebook said the same - they'd use an aperture ring. I'm not interested in using one, unless I'm using the M4/3 42.5mm f1.2 lens - which I don't own!

Hopefully Panasonic will go on a run of making f/2 12-35mm pro lenses with aperture rings and 35-100mm ones too... seems like a good way to compete with Olympus' Pro line.

Either way, I am equally amazed by the footage that you're able to capture during a ceremony. Your full lengths put mine to shame. Really love them. How does the RX10 offer better changes than the GH3 in run and gun situations? Is it mainly due to the small steps in the exposure? I could see you using the EM5 MKII to brilliant effect because you're a great videographer. I think its flexibility would really well for you and you should eventually get it - either this one, or the new EM1 when it arrives.

I'm going to wait for the EM1 though.

Noa Put · February 8th, 2015, 02:54 AM

That 42.5mm f1.2 I find a bit pointless not to mention very expensive if you can get a 45mm f1.8 which probably will give you a better stabilization with the use of the camera's IBIS, sure the 42,5mm will optically be better but I doubt you really will notice that difference on a Olympus camera while you shoot 1080p.

The RX10 has a declicked iris ring on the lens and the large menu wheel on the back on the camera you can rotate easily with your thumb and while you do that it scrolls through all iso values and that all while you are shooting video. Shutter stays locked all the time so changing exposure is a almost instant thing. The button layout and videofunctionality is brilliant on that camera.

Dave Partington · February 8th, 2015, 06:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noa Put

That surprises me a bit because when I see those demo's from the mark II where they switch between no IBIS and with the difference is very large, maybe the improvement now is more visible?

Yes there is a very large difference, it makes most hand held shots at least usable.

What I said was it's not 'perfect' ;) Walking shots can get some artefacts if you're not careful.

February 6th, 2015, 05:29 AM	#1
Noa Put Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Posts: 9,509	incamera stabilisation This might belong more in the camera section but I find it very valuable to use at weddings, not sure if anyone has been following the announcement of the updated Olympus omd-em5? John Brawley did a excellent review about the camera (https://johnbrawley.wordpress.com/20...ng-wilderness/) and his curiousity video that can be found on vimeo looks very good but what interested me most was his BTS video which you can see below. At 02:35 he shows the effectiveness of a 45mm prime shot handheld with and without IBIS and that is simply ridiculous, you can also see several handheld shots from his film where he just walks backward while only holding the camera in his hands with no other rig and the result is just amazing. Since I heavily invested in M4/3 camera's and lenses I always wanted to get the em5 or 1 for video, just for its amazing stabilization but it was the non pal framerates and bad codec that held me back so far. Now they added pal frame rates and added bitrates comparable to what the GH3 delivers, their codec might still be a generation behind on the current offerings but their stabilization is like unseen in any camera that is available today. Just the thought of using a cheap 45mm f1.8 prime or even my 75mm f1.8 and shoot handheld without having to use a monopod is making me dream :) The only concern I have is the fact that you can't change exposure while shooting using the dials and you have to go into the menu to make changes on the touch lcd screen, as I understand it's exactly the same limitation the older EM5 had but not the EM1 so maybe it's Olympus way of protecting their EM1 sales? The em5 II body has a starting price of 1100 euro while the old version is 800 euro. Is anyone considering getting this camera for weddings? Curiosity - Behind The Scenes on Vimeo

February 6th, 2015, 02:17 PM	#2
Ian Atkins Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Charlottesville Virginia Posts: 128	Re: incamera stabilisation Noa, I am absolutely buying the EM-5ii. As you know, I shoot on two GH3s and have a EM-1 as a backup cam, even though it is limited to 30fps and the codec isn't that great. I plan to trade up my EM-1 to get the EM-5 and will probably wind up using it more than my GH3 because it apparently has 1 stop better low light performance to boot! The stabilization in the EM-1 was phenomenal. I use it with my 75mm 1.8 all the time and it is just a perfect combination. For me, M4/3 is the perfect balance between getting that DLSR look while maintaining a nice balance of weight, size, and functionality.

February 6th, 2015, 02:36 PM	#3
Noa Put Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Posts: 9,509	Re: incamera stabilisation The problem is they might introduce the EM1 not so long after this but I expect it to be at least around 1600 euro, there where some rumors that it would support 4K but that all remains to be seen. Fact is that beside this annoying expsoure change limitation while shooting the EM5 has finally matured to a camera that is ready to shoot a bit more serious video, good enough for weddings I think. I will just wait and see how it does based on the first user vids that appear but there is a big chance one of my dslr's will be sold in favor of this one.

February 6th, 2015, 03:49 PM	#4
Daniel Latimer Major Player Join Date: May 2012 Location: Nashua, NH Posts: 209	Re: incamera stabilisation It is interesting. I also use GH4s now. I will wait and see as well. Really, I'm hoping the GH5 will have IBIS. It will be great for use with manual lenses.

February 7th, 2015, 02:55 AM	#5
Noa Put Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Posts: 9,509	Re: incamera stabilisation I wouldn't count too much on IBIS in the GH5, but then again, you"ll never know. It almost looks like there is some kind of agreement between Panasonic and Olympus, something like "you keep the IBIS but we want better video" Before the GH4 camera came out Olympus refused to update their camera's with better codecs and I"m sure they are not that stupid knowing they'd sell a boatload more EM5's and even EM1's if they had the same videoquality when the GH3 was popular. Now the GH4 is out they are suddenly able to make the long asked improvements but not up to the level of the GH4, it still is one generation behind. Also the way they cripple the fact that you can't change exposure while recording looks intentional, I read the EM1 can change exposure while recording? If that is true they again seem to deliberately cripple a important function which might be reserved for a updated EM1 so it has enough reasons for people to upgrade, it could also mean the EM1 is not getting 4K as some rumors said. A lot of "if"s" :) There are slowly more videos coming out and they all look better then what I saw from the first em5, I only need to have some more confirmation about low light performance, I would hope at least the same performance as the GH3, some users said 1600iso would be the highest they would go but I hope someone will do a iso comparison with the GH3 or 4.

February 7th, 2015, 04:28 AM	#6
Dave Partington Trustee Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: York, England Posts: 1,323	Re: incamera stabilisation The GH4 and EM1 are currently my favourite cameras, to the point I rarely pick up the C100 anymore. The EM5II looks interesting, though I'm waiting for more substantial reviews before spending the money. The IBIS is awesome, but not perfect. I'm not expecting the GH5 to have IBIS because Panasonic said they had to add better heat sinks to the GH4 to run in 4K mode and it's unlikely they could do that and still float the sensor with IBIS. __________________ Qualified UAV Pilot with CAA PFAW Aerial Photo / Aerial Video \| Corporate Video Production

February 7th, 2015, 04:51 AM	#7
Noa Put Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Posts: 9,509	Re: incamera stabilisation I have seen that the IBIS can create some wobbly effect that looks like plugin stabilizers can cause when you see the entire image deform a bit. Does the EM1 display that behavior as well? The sony a7 II inbuild stabilization did seem like a good option but from the samples I have seen it's nowhere near as good as what Olympus can do, it still is very jittery.

February 7th, 2015, 12:01 PM	#8
Dave Partington Trustee Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: York, England Posts: 1,323	Re: incamera stabilisation It's not perfect by a long way, but it's better than no IBIS at all. The biggest issue for me is the codec / frame rate combination. If you want Easy + Good then the DJI Ronin is probably better, albeit bigger, heavier, and more expensive. __________________ Qualified UAV Pilot with CAA PFAW Aerial Photo / Aerial Video \| Corporate Video Production

February 7th, 2015, 02:49 PM	#10
Craig McKenna Major Player Join Date: Nov 2013 Location: Liverpool Posts: 495	Re: incamera stabilisation Haha I nearly made this post on announcement day, then held back from doing so because it's just 'weddings and events'. Nearly emailed Noa as well, as I knew this would be his dream! The EM1 will come next January / February if Olympus continues its release schedule with the EM10 follow up in 2017 and EM5 III in 2018. As for the camera itself, I also found the one problem that Noa has found - you still can't change the exposure. For me, this makes the camera perfect for prep shots of objects etc. but less so for important parts of the wedding day. The EM1 II is the camera that I'm waiting for. Under Noa's theory that they have to stay a step back from the GH series, we can only expect the EM1 to have 4K and hopefully a better codec still - say 100mb, rather than 60+ that the EM5 II has currently. It's really exciting to see Oly finally blowing up the video section, but they're still a step behind. For me, I'm waiting for the EM1 MK II. That should be a blowaway camera in terms of stills and video. Ultimately, the EM5 II has THE best IBIS to date in an Olympus camera. It really is epic. I have shot a few times with my EM5, particularly in the summer break when I headed to Berlin, but it's nowhere near as enjoyable to shoot with as a GH camera, namely for its lack of options, inability to change exposure etc. At least you can change the aperture / shutter speed etc. through the LCD during record time. It's close to being THE camera to get, but not quite. To me, if GH4 stood for 4K, then GH5 stands for 5 axis. Olympus and Panasonic have formed an amazing partnership, I see no reason why we can't eventually see the 5 axis come to Panny, even if they have invested most of their 'pro' lenses to have IS built in. Also, for the EM5 II, I've seen amazingly clean ISO 6400 shots coming from it - I really think this sits on a par IQ wise with the EM1 with cleaner low light performance - which the original EM5 had over the EM1 anyways. It's just PDAF and a few other features, particularly form that the EM1 beats the EM5 in. If you add in the fact that you need the battery grip to fully realise the EM5 MK II, I'd rather wait for the EM1 MK II anyways. EDIT Also Noa, I am chuft to see the G2x in motion - that's the gimbal that I want to buy next! I'm getting the 12-40 Olympus 2.8 lens, and later, the 40-150, followed by the G2x. Can't wait to start using it! Looks amazing and perfect as a gimbal for the GH4!

February 8th, 2015, 02:54 AM	#14
Noa Put Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Posts: 9,509	Re: incamera stabilisation That 42.5mm f1.2 I find a bit pointless not to mention very expensive if you can get a 45mm f1.8 which probably will give you a better stabilization with the use of the camera's IBIS, sure the 42,5mm will optically be better but I doubt you really will notice that difference on a Olympus camera while you shoot 1080p. The RX10 has a declicked iris ring on the lens and the large menu wheel on the back on the camera you can rotate easily with your thumb and while you do that it scrolls through all iso values and that all while you are shooting video. Shutter stays locked all the time so changing exposure is a almost instant thing. The button layout and videofunctionality is brilliant on that camera.