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Shooting non-repeatable events: weddings, recitals, plays, performances...


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Old May 17th, 2015, 07:00 AM   #31
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Re: events /weddings : new media to distribute USB sticks: is the future?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Denis Danatzko View Post
- Chaptering - I don't know HTML, and am not aware if/how menus can be made to work on a thumb drive,
.
I have created a HTML 5 menu system called TakyBox. It can handle chapter mark. Check out this link. Go under Scene Selection. The video is terrain from Vimeo.com but playback chapter mark.

the same menu system is also for thumbdrive delivery

http://takybox.com/vimeo
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Old May 17th, 2015, 07:01 AM   #32
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Re: events /weddings : new media to distribute USB sticks: is the future?

Photographers have always had the edge with being able to deliver multiple desirable physical artefacts whether it's canvas print or a luxurious wedding album & videographers have always been at a disadvantage because their product is more intangible. Chris's LCD albums are a really nice way of putting something physical into the client's hands so they feel that they are really getting something for their money.

Last edited by Nigel Barker; May 17th, 2015 at 08:34 AM.
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Old May 17th, 2015, 07:07 AM   #33
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Re: events /weddings : new media to distribute USB sticks: is the future?

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Originally Posted by Denis Danatzko View Post
so I think I put it out in 3 different formats: as an .avi file, as an .mpg file, and as .mp4. I thought .avi would be a "safe bet" , because:
- the thumb drive had plenty of space for storage, and
- (at least in my understanding) because of the nearly-universal ability of .avi being playable on even an older computer/laptop, and
- less "decompression", technical know-how, and latest whiz-bang hardware was required to play it.
It seemed to me that .avi would present the most widely available, least problematic format. If the other formats worked, then that was a "bonus".
Denis, .mpg is mpeg 2. .mp4 is mpeg 4 in h.264 codec. .mpg is actually the safest bet as all computers can playback .mpeg 2. H.264 .Mp4 is next and is currently the safest bet. Mp4 deliveres the best quality in same bit rate as .mpg, almost all modern computers, tablet , smart phones can playback ,mp4

.avi is the worst one to choose, avi is not a codec. It is a container. It can be any format, Sorenson, mpeg2, h.264, indeo, Windows media etc. should avoid deliver upswing .avi
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Old May 17th, 2015, 07:10 AM   #34
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Re: events /weddings : new media to distribute USB sticks: is the future?

This is my mp4 encoding format recommendation

Recommended Encoder Settings for USB Thumbdrive Delivery | L.A. Color Pros Blog
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Old May 17th, 2015, 07:11 AM   #35
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Re: events /weddings : new media to distribute USB sticks: is the future?

Hi Nigel

My feelings exactly BUT I still cannot see why a videographer cannot provide a higher perceived value product to the bride anyway whether it's a DVD set or USB set?? Surely a little more effort (adequately compensated financially of course with a price adjustment) can be achieved with a similar smart album if the LCD route is not preferred? A nice white satin album with some prints (you have to shoot stills for the DVD covers so just zap a few more) and then maybe organise the inside pages to be die cut from your local prints so disk cases can drop into the cut outs.

There must be tons of ways one can make a product appear better value for money ..I remember one member here used to present the DVD cases along with some printed movie tickets and a box of popcorn to clients ..if one was ambitious one could even supply the disks, a new popcorn maker and a bag of corn ready to go .... sounds "corny" (excuse the pun) but an impression with a little extra effort can make a huge difference!
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Old May 17th, 2015, 07:33 AM   #36
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Re: events /weddings : new media to distribute USB sticks: is the future?

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The only reason I still supply DVD is that it looks more value for money than a USB ... 3 x double DVD cases with printed disks and covers look "more" than a little jewellery box with a USB inside .... then again her diamond ring also came in a tiny box didn't it??
I think we need to explain to our clients why dvd sucks, using a nice dvdbox with color printed dvd doesn't make it a better product, it may look nicer to present but to me this is like using the body of a Ferrari but put the engine in of a Lada. Especially the last year I have told all my clients why they need to have their wedding in HD and not crappy SD dvd and I also showed them what the difference is. I actually had placed dvd on my option list, they can still get them but it will cost them extra.

For me it's time to finally deliver in the quality I shoot at, dvd has had it's time, the fact that many clients don't seem to know the difference is our fault, if we don't show them, they ofcourse don't care because they don't know any better. But once you show them and tell them it doesn't cost them any more they would be stupid not to pick a HD copy.

Usb in such a case is the easiest way to deliver, for me it's just a way to transport it to the client, what they do with it is up to them, if their tv supports it they can plug it in, if it doesn't, they can get a mediaplayer that will make it work.

Quote:
Despite being a small screen device our LCD video albums certainly go down well with brides but that's probably because of the "instant gratification" they get ...(open album and watch the wedding versus get a UDB?DVD plug it in turn everything on sit down and watch)
While I feel it looks great what you offer I think it can be done much easier and have an even more instant gratification; I let them download the trailer from my video account directly to their phone, all today's brides have oversized smartphones with excellent screens and if there is one device that is always on them, no matter where they go or what they do, it's their smartphone. If your digital album would fail then it's up to you to fix it or to have it replaced but the download files I supply are failsafe, their smartphone maybe not but that is not my problem.

While I understand brides prefer to have their film presented in a shiny box I would only be happy with that if the contents in that box are of the highest quality I can deliver.
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Old May 17th, 2015, 08:02 AM   #37
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Re: events /weddings : new media to distribute USB sticks: is the future?

Hi Noa

I did use the term DVD as an example ..it can of course be USB or BluRay etc etc ... I know we would love brides to see our work in the highest possible resolution so it's shown off at it's very best BUT it also has to be a "no hassle play" ... Sure, supply in BluRay and the bride then thinks "shucks now I have to buy a new player .. and worst of all I have to get hubby to connect it up which will take a month at least because I can never get him to do anything for me"

On the other side of the coin I really wonder is brides even bother to look at resolution .. sure we pixel peep but they are only looking at content ! I have shot weddings in 4:3 on my Panasonic AVC20's with 1/6" chips and plastic lens and watched them with brides on a huge TV which stretched the image to 16:9 and the groom was blown away .."It's so clear" he said ... 720x676 video on a big screen and he thought it was perfect. Yes, I DO want brides to watch my footage at 1080 but I wonder if they really care ... I have never had a quality complaint from a DVD. On the other hand miss the cutting of the cake after kiss whether it's in SD or HD and she will be on the phone to you the next day!!

I do agree with providing a highlight video for download and yes we do have all our supplied highlights available online for brides ...some go crazy over the online video some might only watch it once. Do they all download the video onto their phone ..do they have enough space or is the phone full of selfies ...one never knows??

The bottom line of this conversation is something I have said many times and that's "we need to supply what the bride wants, NOT what we THINK she wants" .... The big issue of course is to figure exactly what the bride wants!! What we REALLY want on this forum is a bride who can throw in a few posts and tell us, "Boys you are doing it all wrong ..you have no idea what we want!! Now THIS is what you should be doing"

Chris
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Old May 17th, 2015, 08:25 AM   #38
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Re: events /weddings : new media to distribute USB sticks: is the future?

Deleted double post.

Last edited by Mark Whittle; May 17th, 2015 at 08:30 AM. Reason: Double post
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Old May 17th, 2015, 08:29 AM   #39
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Re: events /weddings : new media to distribute USB sticks: is the future?

Some photographers put all their pictures on a disk and that's all they deliver.

Traditional old school & other pro photographers have a range of products - albums, thank you cards, large prints, coffee table books, video slideshows… what the bride wants is up to the bride to choose.

The MP4 file USB is one product, if you like, in our potential range of DVD, Blu-ray, Taky box, Chris' picture player thingy, these are all options we can give to them, as well as wireless delivery where I envisage is where we're headed.

I imagine the tech savvy young couples will know exactly what to do with the MP4 file: they'll stick it in their computer, transfer it to their smartphone/tablet/NAS media server, upload it to whatever they want. It is not really our concern what they do with it.

If they are not savvy and they don't know what to do with it, then that option is inappropriate and they will need to choose a different medium. USBs may not last that long either as smartphones are too thin, iPads & Galaxy pads don't have them and some laptops are phasing them out as they get thinner too. And most young people these days don't have a desktop machine.

We just need to give them options and I'm grateful this forum lets us share those ideas.
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Old May 17th, 2015, 08:41 AM   #40
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Re: events /weddings : new media to distribute USB sticks: is the future?

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Originally Posted by Mark Whittle View Post
Some photographers put all their pictures on a disk and that's all they deliver.

Traditional old school & other pro photographers have a range of products - albums, thank you cards, large prints, coffee table books, video slideshows… what the bride wants is up to the bride to choose.

The MP4 file USB is one product, if you like, in our potential range of DVD, Blu-ray, Taky box, Chris' picture player thingy, these are all options we can give to them, as well as wireless delivery where I envisage is where we're headed..
The nice thing from the photographers point of view is that all these different products are an up sell that generates more income. Unfortunately because of the intangible nature of video it's difficult to sell more versions of the same finished product in different formats. The photographer can sell the same photograph in different physical forms (album, canvas, thank you cards, beer mats...). A videographer will struggle to sell as separate line items a download, a USB, a DVD & a Blu-ray charging separately for each physical incarnation of the same video.
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Old May 17th, 2015, 08:56 AM   #41
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Re: events /weddings : new media to distribute USB sticks: is the future?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Whittle
We just need to give them options
We should, if you have a couple that only has a dvd player, is not interested in getting anything else and just wants to pop in a dvd because she knows that works, then that is what we should supply, but we should give them a HD file anyway, she will be gratefull one day when she figures out it is a much higher quality image of her wedding.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Harding
BUT it also has to be a "no hassle play"
Ok, but should that determine the qualitylevel we supply? maybe in a few years 8K is the standard but let's still deliver a simple dvd because we don't want to make it too difficult for the couple? If I have a client that tells me, "I don't care if it is a lower quality, just give me a dvd", only then I will supply them just that

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Harding
we need to supply what the bride wants, NOT what we THINK she wants
So you think that brides want lower quality standard definition and not HD? Even if it would cost them the same amount?

Quote:
I have never had a quality complaint from a DVD
That's because they don't know any better, if you don't show them the difference then they always will be happy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Harding
some go crazy over the online video some might only watch it once. Do they all download the video onto their phone ..do they have enough space or is the phone full of selfies ...one never knows??
I think you underestimate the power of a well edited 5 minute trailer with all the highlights, the longer a film gets, the less it will be watched, make a 2 hour film and it will be watched once by the family and their closest friends after the wedding and maybe once a year by the couple, put a 5 minute trailer online and it will be watched over a 1000 times by 1000 different people in a few days time, the bride will watch that trailer over and over again because it will give her that feeling again of her wedding day in just a few minutes. Even the amount of space it takes on a mobile phone is negligible, those files can be very small. Every wedding I have this year the bride asked for a trailer, why? Because they have seen the trailers on my website and tell me they have watched it several times, and it's not even their own wedding. In that respect I have learned to know my clients very well and know exactly what a bride wants. A nice packaging is preferred but all that matters is what is inside and there is no excuse for delivering a low imagequality video.
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Old May 17th, 2015, 09:49 AM   #42
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Re: events /weddings : new media to distribute USB sticks: is the future?

The trouble with the rapid advance in image quality, is that the prime purpose is not to improve our viewing comfort, but to convince us that we need to spend more money on the latest technology to keep the manufacturers profits going.

That then results in a total lack of compatibility or even availability in delivery systems. We are discussing here how to deliver HD video to our clients instead of SD yet manufacturers are trying to get everybody to buy 4k TVs and cameras. If we are struggling to deliver HD to clients after years of filming in HD, how the hell do we deliver 4k when there is nothing to play it on let alone the looming prospect of 8k? It is technology for it's own sake, rather than to fulfil a public demand. I for one am perfectly happy to watch a broadcast programme or DVD in SD without being concerned about the quality and so are my wedding clients.

I have decided to deliver DVDs and one USB HD to every client simply so that they have a possibility of viewing something approaching the quality I film in. Whether they are able to play it or not is a problem for them and the manufacturers and is something that I am careful to point out to them. I always advise them on playing possibilities, but that is where my responsibility ends. I find it highly frustrating trying to push the manufacturers desire for ever higher quality when there is little support back on how to deliver that quality.

Chris's LCD book has instant appeal to Brides and is something I have looked at closely, but it is packaging limited quality in a more attractive alternative, rather than moving the quality forward.

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Old May 17th, 2015, 10:02 AM   #43
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Re: events /weddings : new media to distribute USB sticks: is the future?

I agree few couples pixel peep; I say couples as its often forgotten the Groom does have some say and it is his video too. I find chatting to the Groom they're more interested in tech than the Bride.

I do think many couples just do not realise the quality of SD vs HD. To be honest its more apparent on my 4k screen than it was on my hd tv. SD looks awful on my new TV to the point i now hate watching any of my DVDs, which wasn't an issue on my old tele. Will future TVs make DVD redundant. Quite possible. It is a few years away however.

Right now I'm still supplying DVD as an option, but the number of bluray and USB requests are showing a coming trend for the latter over the former. As Noa suggests, we need to educate couples who are unaware of the difference. Some may even think they're getting hd with a DVD. How many couples chose video cassettes for their Wedding video delivery after dvd became available and now regret their decision with their video player long gone.
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Old May 17th, 2015, 10:44 AM   #44
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Re: events /weddings : new media to distribute USB sticks: is the future?

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If we are struggling to deliver HD to clients after years of filming in HD, how the hell do we deliver 4k when there is nothing to play it on let alone the looming prospect of 8k?
You are making a good point here, I don't think we are struggling to deliver HD, there is no reason whatsoever not to deliver in HD today, we only need to explain to our clients why they need HD, it's just a mindset that needs to be changed. We live in a time now where big led tv's, tablets, smartphone and the internet are the norm and we as videographers need to exploit that as much as we can. For a client it's only a very small step to go into the HD arena, 4K otoh is something we should not worry about, yet, but only use it to our advantage, but HD is here now, easy to watch, to deliver and to sell, why waste more time on dvd's? The only reason why still so many clients are ok with dvd's is because some of us videographers are ok with that too.

Quote:
SD looks awful on my new TV to the point i now hate watching any of my DVDs
When I watch my wedding on dvd and after that on blu-ray I just hate to give a dvd to my clients, anyone who doesn't see a difference between a dvd and a blu-ray on a big led screen has either a SD camera or needs some glasses :)
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Old May 17th, 2015, 11:12 AM   #45
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Re: events /weddings : new media to distribute USB sticks: is the future?

You know as a videographer, I'm just as guilty of my clients of keeping DVD alive. A DVD disk is cheap, relatively easy to produce and rarely gets playback complaints from clients. USB of course has many issues with TV playback and even bluray has had problems for me from couples unable to play such disks on PlayStation devices.

That doesn't change that DVD as a video delivery is a poooor choice and would be apparent to most couples if time was taken to show the difference. They pay me to film HD and get a crappy SD picture in return.
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