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Old June 16th, 2015, 11:35 AM   #1
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So fed up with DVD

So, even though I've moved to USB as my main delivery, I made the mistake of including a single DVD in the package. I guess out of fear that some wouldn't book with no DVD.

Anyway... DVD surely should not be this hard.

I use Sony Vegas., and Sony DVD Architect. You render the video as MPEG2, and the audio as a separate file.

My problem is choosing the bitrate to render at.

I've sometimes sent off DVDs with a 1/4 space left that could have been used to push the quality.

But more often than not, I spend hours rendering my three separate files to find that they are too big.

Why oh why can the software not forecast the expected rendered filesize for me??

And since all videos for each client are different lengths, I have to adjust and guess and cross my fingers every time.

So many wasted hours in my life with re-renders.

Somebody tell me there's a better way!!
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Old June 16th, 2015, 11:43 AM   #2
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Re: So fed up with DVD

I use tmpgenc authoringworks for my dvd's, very stable and making a dvd is about twice realtime I think on my older pc, didn't have a issue with it since I started using it. I leave all on autosetting and let the program decide what the size should be, quality always looks ok to me.
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Old June 16th, 2015, 12:11 PM   #3
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Re: So fed up with DVD

+1 for tmpgenc authoringworks.
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Old June 16th, 2015, 12:13 PM   #4
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Re: So fed up with DVD

I know by the length of a video it it will fit on a single layer disc. If it's about 1.5 hours it will fit at standard rates. I never reduce quality to make it fit unless it's very close. If it doesn't fit I use a dual layer disc. Not that complicated, IMO.

If you have left over space at standard bit rate there is no reason to increase it, there is no real noticeable increase in quality, leave it alone.

IMO you are complicating things.

If you're not using dual layer discs, then you should have a supply for when you need them. If the video doesn't fit on a single layer in DVDA, you simply change the project properties in DVDA to 8.5gb and use the DL disc and you're done.
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Old June 16th, 2015, 12:17 PM   #5
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Re: So fed up with DVD

I use Magix ProX7 for editing and write the DVD directly from the time line as soon as I finish editing. It sizes the file automatically to fill the DVD.

On the subject of USB delivery, I offer it as an alternative, however I recently supplied 14 USBs to a client after checking that they would play properly on their TV. I had a call a few days later to say that they had received 6 back from their friends, who were having problems playing them on their own TVs, mostly with no sound or intermittent sound. I have had this before, where video files on USB have to be tailored to different systems.

I don't know if anyone else has found this, but it is worth being aware that their could be problems.

Roger
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Old June 16th, 2015, 12:22 PM   #6
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Re: So fed up with DVD

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Originally Posted by Jeff Harper View Post
I know by the length of a video it it will fit on a single layer disc. If it's about 1.5 hours it will fit at standard rates. I never reduce quality to make it fit unless it's very close. If it doesn't fit I use a dual layer disc. Not that complicated, IMO.

If you have left over space at standard bit rate there is no reason to increase it, there is no real noticeable increase in quality, leave it alone.

IMO you are complicating things.

I make hundreds of these a year, it's just not that complicated.

If you're not using dual layer discs, then you should have a supply for when you need them. If the video doesn't fit on a single layer in DVDA, you simply change the project properties in DVDA to 8.5gb and use the DL disc.
I do pretty much the same, although I use two discs if the video is too long for one. I tried dual layer DVDs, but often found that client's DVD players wouldn't play them. Like you Jeff I do hundreds of DVDs every year with no problem.

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Old June 16th, 2015, 12:32 PM   #7
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Re: So fed up with DVD

Roger, I probably haven't had an issue in two years with bad DL discs, I use HPs from Amazon, before I used Ridata. I used Ridata for years but the HPs are cheaper and work as well. I actually cannot remember the last time I had a bad one, and I use mostly DL.

I suspect the DVD players might be old for your customers, so I understand how that can happen. Used to happen for me too, it was always the parent's DVD player that would not work, but the last couple of years I just don't hear about them not working anymore.
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Old June 16th, 2015, 12:35 PM   #8
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Re: So fed up with DVD

To figure out what encoding rate to use to fit your content onto the DVD, a good rule of thumb formula is 560/minutes = bitrate, and I usually round down just a little for safety. For instance, 560/120=4.66 so I encode using 4.5 and always fits, including still menus. Now, if you wanted to use motion menus, then it gets more complicated.

There are also free bitrate calculators online such as DVD-HQ : Bitrate & GOP calculator

Of course you need to be careful to put the right numbers into each box or it throws the whole thing out of whack. The 560/minutes thing has worked for me for years ;-)

Thanks
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Old June 16th, 2015, 01:11 PM   #9
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Re: So fed up with DVD

The beauty of using TMPGenc is you can see how much the file is filling the DVD on a nice scale and can alter the bit rate to suit. I usually fill to just over 4G. I also use DVDArchitect and make files in TMPGenc that go straight into DVDArchitect with no problems. Like Noa I use Edius though do have Vegas as well. Output a HQX file from Edius and let TMPGenc scale and encode for DVD. The reason I do this is most of my projects are close to 2 hours or just over so need a 2 pass VBR encode and Edius will only do a 1 pass encode.

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Old June 16th, 2015, 02:12 PM   #10
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Re: So fed up with DVD

I assume that with TMPGenc you can only do one file at a time so I will still have to do some maths on my own. I have three projects and so three rendered files to fit on disc (Feature, Highlights and Speeches) .

Thanks for the rule of thumb Jeff! I'll still have to calculate for three lengths then add them up and recalculate as necessary.

Wish I could just somehow queue my three renders and click 'fit on disc ' or something! Wishful thinking.

But admittedly maybe just laziness!
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Old June 16th, 2015, 02:48 PM   #11
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Re: So fed up with DVD

I don't know what you edit with, but if you have the creative cloud with Adobe then you can use Encore. It will do those calculations for you. Even if you have three videos.
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Old June 16th, 2015, 03:55 PM   #12
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Re: So fed up with DVD

I'm slightly confused as I was feeling that my Magix NLE editing system was a bit slow as my DVDs were taking about twice realtime to render. Noa is saying here that making a DVD in Tempgenc is also about twice real time and I believe Noa is using Edius. So is every one editing in an NLE then making up an MPEG2 file for authoring the DVD in another programme? If so, how long is the whole process taking once the editing is finished, in other words rendering the timeline to MPEG2 then authoring to DVD, let's say a 90 minute DVD.

Maybe my system is not that slow, as my twice real time is for rendering the file and writing the DVD with menu straight from the timeline.

Roger
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Old June 16th, 2015, 05:21 PM   #13
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Re: So fed up with DVD

For a short DVD say less than 60 mins then CBR at 7000 is fine and I can encode from EDIUS single pass CBR in about half realtime. For long programs like I normally do of about 2 hours it is better to use 2 pass VBR encode and for that I go to TMPGenc. I export a HQX file about half realtime or less and then 2 pass encode in TMPGenc which take about 1.5 times realtime on my PC. So I would say for these longer programs total with changing programs etc is around 2.5 times realtime. It can vary with the content though.

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Old June 16th, 2015, 05:35 PM   #14
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Re: So fed up with DVD

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Gunkel View Post
So is every one editing in an NLE then making up an MPEG2 file for authoring the DVD in another programme? If so, how long is the whole process taking once the editing is finished, in other words rendering the timeline to MPEG2 then authoring to DVD, let's say a 90 minute DVD.

Maybe my system is not that slow, as my twice real time is for rendering the file and writing the DVD with menu straight from the timeline.

Roger
Using Edius 7.5 here Roger, I just burn most of my DVDs from the time line, never timed it but could be less than 30mins. No need to guess bitrate with Edius :)
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Old June 16th, 2015, 05:51 PM   #15
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Re: So fed up with DVD

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Originally Posted by Anthony McErlean View Post
Using Edius 7.5 here Roger, I just burn most of my DVDs from the time line, never timed it but could be less than 30mins. No need to guess bitrate with Edius :)
Tried Edius 7.5, but unfortunately, unlike 6.5 it won't run with my AMD quad core CPU. My existing Magix programme also automatically sorts out the bitrate.

@ Ron, seems like a similar time to my own system, although Magix allows me to choose 2 pass if required.

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