Sneak Peeks & Trailers, Youtube the place?

Peter Rush · August 6th, 2015, 02:05 AM

A salutary warning against using music without permission on The Internet. I bet Joe Simon doesn't do it anymore

The Music Licensing Chickens Have Come Home to Roost in Wedding and Event Videography | Dare Dreamer Magazine

Robert Benda · August 6th, 2015, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Burkett

Youtube's policy seems to be, either the artist can block the video, mute the audio or allow an advert with revenue going to them. How true is this, I do not know. However it seems to be a solution that Youtube is happy with, the Businesses that pay for the adverts and even the artist to some degree or else they'd block it or insist audio be removed. By running adverts against my video, the businesses they refer to are also in a roundabout way using my video with copyright music to promote their business. It's a real grey area and arguably if illegal then Youtube is hardly an innocent bystander.

Not really a grey area. YouTube works WITH the copyright holders. IF you use a pop song in your video, and they allow it to stay online, its because the copyright holder made that choice. If they put ads on it, that revenue is going back to the holder (and YouTube gets their cut). If the copyright holder changes their mind, the audio can vanish. OR, if they notice your video is promoting YOUR business, you can still get a bill for copyright infringement (like Joe Simon did). Just because they let you upload the video in the first place doesn't mean they're giving their permission for HOW you're using it. If you check the terms and conditions of Vimeo and YouTube uploads, you'll see that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Burkett

I use copyright free music for my trailers for good reason. With Marryoke's alas it's unavoidable. Unless any here can advise on how this is achievable short of withdrawing the service.

I hope you mean ROYALTY free music. Copyright free music is different than the royalty free music we pay the license for once and use freely in our promotional videos.

As for unavoidable, that's baloney and we all know it. We each make a choice. For instance, I make my clients a wedding video that includes all the original music of the day... but it stays offline and is only for their personal use. If you want to make them marry-oke, you are the one choosing to, and choosing to put it online. No one is forcing you to. The nonsense about taking credit or not for the song has nothing to do with it. We're not talking about fair use. "I want my work to be seen" is literally commercial use.

Steve Burkett · August 6th, 2015, 11:55 AM

Robert, like many you have strong opinions in the subject and I respect that. Music for Trailers has been purchased from sites that allow certain uses, including for Wedding businesses such as mine. Usually for 1 use or 5 use license.

As for Marryokes, it is expected from the fact that it is a Marryoke that A It uses a popular song, B, it goes online to be shared. A tradition set by those who started the Marryoke craze. To offer it is to follow that tradition or not offer it all. Hence my no choice statement. I can't run Marryokes without making them available online as the whole point is for the couple to share with guests. It's not a personal video. I could withdraw the service, but apart from that, posting online is just how Marryokes are done.

Now I'm sure you disagree with this reasoning, but its not going to change and there are those making much much more money from Marryokes than I. Feel free to contact Marryoke.Com, they're famous across the World and received publicity from their Marryokes. I'm sure they'd be delighted with your opinions.

Noa Put · August 6th, 2015, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Feel free to contact Marryoke.Com, they're famous across the World and received publicity from their Marryokes. I'm sure they'd be delighted with your opinions.

They might be contacted one day, just as they did with Joe Simon, he was also world famous when he used commercial music without paying for it until he got noticed by the wrong person. Just because one company can get away with it doesn't mean it is ok.

Steve Burkett · August 6th, 2015, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noa Put

They might be contacted one day, just as they did with Joe Simon, he was also world famous when he used commercial music without paying for it until he got noticed by the wrong person. Just because one company can get away with it doesn't mean it is ok.

A lesson in the obvious is of course very much welcome; still a welcome reminder that there are others more deserving of legal action. Of course, I could just forward the video for the couple to upload. So therefore not on my youtube site and on the couple's instead. Since most clients discover my Marryokes through either my sample DVD or via recommendation, not having my name to an online video would not affect my Business one jot. Being a video on a personal rather than business account, this would come under the ad system Youtube provides. Of course this doesn't resolve the ethical dilemma, but would limit my risks being sued.

Chris Harding · August 7th, 2015, 12:37 AM

Hey Steve

So your Marryoke clips are not put online any more? They would lose the whole effect without the song of course!! It's a pity as those are good to show brides what they will get !!

I supply brides with a shortened online video of their ceremony and that's normally just the vows and rings so there is no music and therefore no copyright issues.

For the odd sample highlight video I tend to gravitate towards Smartsound tracks which are Royalty free but what amuses me is that You Tube still thinks they are copyright music so I have to end up sending detailed emails on the track details and where it comes from before they remove the flag!!

We do have a blanket licence over here for using commercial music on the DVD ...that is of course JUST the DVD and you are not licenced online. In fact the licence states you can use it for up to 20 DVD's for private viewing only but they will now not elaborate whether USB delivery is also covered as it's not mentioned. Many locals here have tried to get clarification on what media can be used with no success so at this stage even a BluRay might not be covered???

Steve Burkett · August 7th, 2015, 02:41 AM

Hi Chris,

No still online. With larger companies than me working that way, I feel mine is hopefully too small to be noticed. It's usually viral videos that grab attention. Still its worth monitoring, which I do, as it is a risk. Unlike Trailers, not all my couples have a Marryoke, only a handful.

Obviously there is an ethical and legal issue to my use of popular music. However the fact is anyone using popular music either as tracks or as recorded live as part of their video is using another artists work as part of their business. Unless you actually remove all music and replace with royalty free. If such music appears on Sample DVDs that you send to potential clients, then you're using other artists work to promote your business, not on the internet mind. Still to show a potential client some 1st Dance coverage done to say a live recording of Thinking Out Loud, is still using someone else's work to help promote your business.

Of course the internet brings this more out into the open, by reaching out to a wider audience. For DVD use, like you, in Britain there's a license to cover that. I'm sure those like me who pay it can pat themselves on the back and feel they paid their due, but is the artist benefitting or even agreeing to use of their music. I had an organist who objected to my filming of the Ceremony despite this license as a piece he played was one of his own creation. So he said. Obviously this license allows use of an x amount of music, but doesn't ask you to name the tracks. So the original artist neither knows about it nor even gets a penny from it.

Whilst the internet is frowned on and for good reason, it does at least give the artist a choice and some revenue from the use of their music. If the artist disagrees with my use as part of my business, would that also extend to DVD use in the final video as well, despite the license that I and others pay.

In the end, ethically and risk free, to run my business I should use only royalty free music in my video, and even replace all live music with the same. If anyone here is doing this and not a single piece of popular music appears in their videos, then I'm sure they have every right to throw stones at me. However when it comes down to it, many are guilty of ripping off artists work. Even my goodey two shoes Parents have copied an artists music CD and given to a friend.

Robert Benda · August 7th, 2015, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Harding

For the odd sample highlight video I tend to gravitate towards Smartsound tracks which are Royalty free but what amuses me is that You Tube still thinks they are copyright music so I have to end up sending detailed emails on the track details and where it comes from before they remove the flag!!

Oops, you're getting your terms mixed up there, Chris. Smartsound tracks are still copyrighted. They're royalty free, which is different. Here, you pay a simple one time fee, then get to use them royalty free. That's why they still get flagged each time by YouTube.

I know TheMusicBed.com has a video tag that I can include in my videos so that Vimeo and YouTube know I paid the fee for their use. I've never had a problem getting flagged.

Chris Harding · August 7th, 2015, 07:26 PM

Hi Rob

According to the company they should be able to be used on YouTube as I have purchased the Audio Pallets from them ..yes you can also download just one song but I decided to buy a whole bunch of libraries from them on special instead of doing a download of just one track. It's only now and again that they are flagged by You Tube ..mostly the robot doesn't make the error ...some of the tracks are VERY close to commercial melody lines so if it gets tagged it's understandable. Most of their music is done by the Music Bakery.

Thanks for the heads up!

Chris

August 6th, 2015, 02:05 AM	#16
Peter Rush Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: UK/Yorkshire Posts: 2,069	Re: Sneak Peeks & Trailers, Youtube the place? A salutary warning against using music without permission on The Internet. I bet Joe Simon doesn't do it anymore The Music Licensing Chickens Have Come Home to Roost in Wedding and Event Videography \| Dare Dreamer Magazine

August 6th, 2015, 11:55 AM	#18
Steve Burkett Trustee Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Romsey, UK Posts: 1,261	Re: Sneak Peeks & Trailers, Youtube the place? Robert, like many you have strong opinions in the subject and I respect that. Music for Trailers has been purchased from sites that allow certain uses, including for Wedding businesses such as mine. Usually for 1 use or 5 use license. As for Marryokes, it is expected from the fact that it is a Marryoke that A It uses a popular song, B, it goes online to be shared. A tradition set by those who started the Marryoke craze. To offer it is to follow that tradition or not offer it all. Hence my no choice statement. I can't run Marryokes without making them available online as the whole point is for the couple to share with guests. It's not a personal video. I could withdraw the service, but apart from that, posting online is just how Marryokes are done. Now I'm sure you disagree with this reasoning, but its not going to change and there are those making much much more money from Marryokes than I. Feel free to contact Marryoke.Com, they're famous across the World and received publicity from their Marryokes. I'm sure they'd be delighted with your opinions.

August 7th, 2015, 12:37 AM	#21
Chris Harding Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 8,441	Re: Sneak Peeks & Trailers, Youtube the place? Hey Steve So your Marryoke clips are not put online any more? They would lose the whole effect without the song of course!! It's a pity as those are good to show brides what they will get !! I supply brides with a shortened online video of their ceremony and that's normally just the vows and rings so there is no music and therefore no copyright issues. For the odd sample highlight video I tend to gravitate towards Smartsound tracks which are Royalty free but what amuses me is that You Tube still thinks they are copyright music so I have to end up sending detailed emails on the track details and where it comes from before they remove the flag!! We do have a blanket licence over here for using commercial music on the DVD ...that is of course JUST the DVD and you are not licenced online. In fact the licence states you can use it for up to 20 DVD's for private viewing only but they will now not elaborate whether USB delivery is also covered as it's not mentioned. Many locals here have tried to get clarification on what media can be used with no success so at this stage even a BluRay might not be covered???

August 7th, 2015, 02:41 AM	#22
Steve Burkett Trustee Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Romsey, UK Posts: 1,261	Re: Sneak Peeks & Trailers, Youtube the place? Hi Chris, No still online. With larger companies than me working that way, I feel mine is hopefully too small to be noticed. It's usually viral videos that grab attention. Still its worth monitoring, which I do, as it is a risk. Unlike Trailers, not all my couples have a Marryoke, only a handful. Obviously there is an ethical and legal issue to my use of popular music. However the fact is anyone using popular music either as tracks or as recorded live as part of their video is using another artists work as part of their business. Unless you actually remove all music and replace with royalty free. If such music appears on Sample DVDs that you send to potential clients, then you're using other artists work to promote your business, not on the internet mind. Still to show a potential client some 1st Dance coverage done to say a live recording of Thinking Out Loud, is still using someone else's work to help promote your business. Of course the internet brings this more out into the open, by reaching out to a wider audience. For DVD use, like you, in Britain there's a license to cover that. I'm sure those like me who pay it can pat themselves on the back and feel they paid their due, but is the artist benefitting or even agreeing to use of their music. I had an organist who objected to my filming of the Ceremony despite this license as a piece he played was one of his own creation. So he said. Obviously this license allows use of an x amount of music, but doesn't ask you to name the tracks. So the original artist neither knows about it nor even gets a penny from it. Whilst the internet is frowned on and for good reason, it does at least give the artist a choice and some revenue from the use of their music. If the artist disagrees with my use as part of my business, would that also extend to DVD use in the final video as well, despite the license that I and others pay. In the end, ethically and risk free, to run my business I should use only royalty free music in my video, and even replace all live music with the same. If anyone here is doing this and not a single piece of popular music appears in their videos, then I'm sure they have every right to throw stones at me. However when it comes down to it, many are guilty of ripping off artists work. Even my goodey two shoes Parents have copied an artists music CD and given to a friend.

August 7th, 2015, 07:26 PM	#24
Chris Harding Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 8,441	Re: Sneak Peeks & Trailers, Youtube the place? Hi Rob According to the company they should be able to be used on YouTube as I have purchased the Audio Pallets from them ..yes you can also download just one song but I decided to buy a whole bunch of libraries from them on special instead of doing a download of just one track. It's only now and again that they are flagged by You Tube ..mostly the robot doesn't make the error ...some of the tracks are VERY close to commercial melody lines so if it gets tagged it's understandable. Most of their music is done by the Music Bakery. Thanks for the heads up! Chris