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Old August 19th, 2015, 02:14 PM   #1
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24p vs 60p for Wedding Films

For the past few years I've been shooting all wedding films in 24p which has worked out quite well. I shoot with two Canon C100 Mark I's which can only shoot 1080p30 or 1080p24 but one of my shooters bought a Sony A7S and has been shooting some b roll clips in 1080p60 in order for us to slow down the footage in post. I really like having the option to slow down those shots but I don't want to slow down every b roll clip that he shoots throughout the day.

If we're editing in a 24p timeline in Premiere Pro, is there any disadvantage to him shooting all of his footage in 1080p60? If we don't make them slow motion, will it produce a significantly different look than if he were to shoot those same clips in 24p?

I don't have two similar clips that were shot in 24p and 60p to compare and I haven't worked with 60p footage very much, so I'm hoping someone with experience editing both types of footage can provide some insight into how much different the two generally look.

Thanks!

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Old August 19th, 2015, 03:53 PM   #2
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Re: 24p vs 60p for Wedding Films

In my experience, it doesn't look too bad when it is put together, however if you shot the same clip in 24 and 60, you'll see a difference do to the fact that 24 doesn't divide evenly with 60. With 60 to 30 it is even, every other frame gets dropped. With 60 to 24, the software has to pic and choose which frames to keep and what to drop. I believe premiere does a 3 frame / 2 frame conversion to make it look smooth, and it will, but it won't be identical to that shot at 24p.

That being said, I only ever shoot 60p for things I plan to slow down. After shooting 24p for the last few years, watching anything playback at 60p looks awful.

EDIT: Also the motion blur will be different because 60p is probably shot at shutter speed of 120. However if you normally mix shutter speeds, you won't even notice.

Last edited by Matthias Claflin; August 19th, 2015 at 10:55 PM.
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Old August 20th, 2015, 12:05 AM   #3
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Re: 24p vs 60p for Wedding Films

You can slow down 60p to 24p without audio sync. But if you shoot 60p end edit in 30p, audio will be in-sync. And when you slow down the clip 50%, you got butter smooth slomo. some people don't like 30p.. and they call it video-ish. but I just think some confused 30p with 60i.
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Old August 20th, 2015, 01:15 PM   #4
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Re: 24p vs 60p for Wedding Films

I tend to prefer to look of 24p to 30p but it's one of those things where I don't think many clients are going to be able to tell a difference.
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Old August 20th, 2015, 02:50 PM   #5
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Re: 24p vs 60p for Wedding Films

I agree. I shoot 24p as well. If you don't need the audio, a conversion of 60p to 24p will go unnoticed. Otherwise, if you need the audio, you'll probably want to use a 30p timeline rather than 24p.
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Old August 20th, 2015, 04:05 PM   #6
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Re: 24p vs 60p for Wedding Films

I honestly can't really tell the difference between 24p, 25p or 30p ], never really understood the argument that 24p looks better.
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Old August 20th, 2015, 04:13 PM   #7
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Re: 24p vs 60p for Wedding Films

I can't tell between 30p and 24p. The difference is really minor. Many has strong argument about 30p is video-ish. 24p is film. But they were thinking was 60i but not 30p.
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Old August 20th, 2015, 07:07 PM   #8
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Re: 24p vs 60p for Wedding Films

Over here we are all at 25P rather than 30P so I certainly cannot tell any difference between 24 and 25 so I shoot 25 ... would anyone be able to notice just a 1fps difference??? I very much doubt it ....Maybe it shows up more on the old CRT TV's rather than modern LCD or LED progressive screens??? I have no idea!!!
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Old August 20th, 2015, 08:45 PM   #9
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Re: 24p vs 60p for Wedding Films

I don't think it's fair to say that either 24p or 30p looks better. I think they each have advantages disadvantages. I prefer the look of 24p for weddings while I prefer the look of 30p for most corporate videos while I know some people who only shoot in one or the other.
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Old August 20th, 2015, 08:57 PM   #10
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Re: 24p vs 60p for Wedding Films

When I watch videos created by studios such as Pacific Films, 24p looks very very good. It's got to be done right. This is a very, very old topic that has been brought up hundreds of times I'm sure. If one were to google 24p you will see endless threads in countless forums where people argue about it.

24p vs 60p which is better? is a the wrong question. They are different animals. It would be better to fully understand each and then choose based on the look one wishes to achieve. When you understand what each represents you can then ask the proper question which only the shooter can answer: what look am I going for?

Shooting 24p properly for a true film look involves much more than changing a frame rate. If you are shooting 24p and want to achieve a true film look, the camera, lenses and shooting style used are also very important in obtaining the desired film look aesthetic.

That being said, I have shot several weddings in 24p using several Canon XA10s in my standard video style, and overall was pleased, but in the end it was too soft for my taste and I found it hard to focus using an LCD or even viewfinder because everything was so soft. If I had stuck with it I might have mastered it, but I decided it was not for me.

When shooting in 24p you must adjust your shooting style. I studied this prior to shooting those weddings I did and I forget most of what I learned, it's been a few years. But I do know that shooting in 24p vs 60p are two entirely different things.

I do remember the obvious things, such as the need to pan much more slowly, and that it's best to follow subjects (carefully) rather than let them pass by the camera. As you follow a subject the background will be blurred or whatever, but the subject will be fine. This is true even for hollywood productions shot with film.

So before one might ask "which is better", I think it would be wiser to look at examples of both, learn what is involved when shooting in 24p, and then choose the style that you wish.

And of course, if it's going on a disc, 24p is supported on DVDs and Blurays, 60p is not, unless you downsize to 720p for bluray. Your 60p, when delivered on DVD is going to end up as 60i anyway unless you convert it to 24p, which is an option, but not one that I would bother with.

So you have to also look at what your delivery format will be. For DVD and Bluray delivery 24p is going to be nice because it works on both without additional transcoding.

I will add that I shot in 60p for two years with the GH2s and delivered 720p on bluray discs, and I LOVED the look of 60p, the smooth motion was amazing to me. If I had to deliver in strictly digital formats such as USB sticks, I would happily shoot in 60p. It's just too bad Bluray doesn't support 1080 60p.

Edit: 1080 60p support might already be here on some Bluray players, not sure, but I've heard it's coming, I believe. Someone correct me if I'm mistaken.
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Old August 21st, 2015, 07:23 AM   #11
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Re: 24p vs 60p for Wedding Films

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Harper View Post
Edit: 1080 60p support might already be here on some Bluray players, not sure, but I've heard it's coming, I believe. Someone correct me if I'm mistaken.
Not sure but don't you have to worry about what the clients Blu Ray player can play? I would avoid it if it's fairly new technology. Blu Rays might be something people have already, but I don't think the demand is much there to buy anymore or upgrade. It's all gone streaming for these milennials.
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Old August 21st, 2015, 07:59 AM   #12
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Re: 24p vs 60p for Wedding Films

David, it all depends on where you are, David. Virtually all of my bride and grooms have a bluray player. Many do not know how to play a usb stick on their TV. It's about the demographics where you are.
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Old August 21st, 2015, 08:10 AM   #13
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Re: 24p vs 60p for Wedding Films

Currently the BluRay spec, same like broadcast NTSC spec, , only 720p60 is supported. Only if there is a new revised standard, it will always support 720p60 not 1080p60. Even if there are new BluRay players can do 1080p60, there needs to be authoring program can export a bluray disk without transcoding to 1080p60. But we can deliver 1080p60 in USB thumbdrive and online. :)
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Old August 21st, 2015, 08:19 AM   #14
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Re: 24p vs 60p for Wedding Films

I looked it up, Taky, and it's the 4K players that will support 60p. They are coming out this Christmas I think.

But there's the issue for me of DVDA not being able to produce a 60p, bluray disc. I'm sure Sony will fix that at some point, it's just a matter of when.
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Old August 21st, 2015, 08:29 AM   #15
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Re: 24p vs 60p for Wedding Films

What???? There are 4K bluray player? Is it a new a standard released yet?
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