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Shooting non-repeatable events: weddings, recitals, plays, performances...


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Old August 19th, 2015, 06:26 PM   #1
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Sony rx10ii fz1000 6d 70d

ok bought Sony rx10ii, got fz1000, already got 6ds, 70ds, 5d3s and used to using these great cameras.
Sent fz1000 back same day, thanks Amazon, Sony border line, hardly any cinematic bokeh but slog 2 freaking amaze balls to grade. A7sii coming?
Fz just camcorder footage. Canon hfm506 better, stills never tried,
Sony handles lovely, feels quality.
Will keep as back up for holidays and weddings , but canon 70d, 6d, 5d, nothing can beat, tell me I'm wrong,
70d starting to be my main camera but shocking compared to 6d in low light even at ISO 640'
Canon 6d takes some beating on terms of all cameras I have used, colour rendition, handling, ease of use, low light etc. steve
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Old August 19th, 2015, 08:06 PM   #2
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Re: Sony rx10ii fz1000 6d 70d

Wouldn't touch any Canon DSLR with a ten foot bargepole in 2015 (well.... Unless you pay me! He who holds the purse strings plays the piper). As Canon has clearly dropped off the ball when it comes to video performance, and apparently don't care about their HDSLR shooters.

Even a lowly Nikon D5x00 series camera can match up with the stock 5Dmk3, and a ridiculously lower cost.

Ones to take a look at instead are Sony A7s / A7r mk2 / PMW-F3 / A6000 / RX10 mk2 and Samsung NX1 and Panasonic GH4 / G7.
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Old August 19th, 2015, 10:21 PM   #3
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Re: Sony rx10ii fz1000 6d 70d

I have to entirely disagree. The Canon 5D mkIII is an excellent DSLR. Let's remember, this is a photo camera first, and a video camera second, if at all. The Sony A7s is definitely designed with video in mind, and in my opinion, might as well be called a video camera that shoots stills (and maybe it is, I don't follow it that closely.)

I am not saying that the Canon DSLR series is for every videographer, but I will say that it is a great set of cameras for photographers, which is exactly what it is meant to be. If you ask me, Canon is the better brand for photographers, hands down. I know a number of photographers, one of which I work with, who all use Canon simply for Canon L glass (considering the bodies aren't really very different when it comes down to performance). Nikon does have some good glass, but if I'm not mistaken their F-mount system can't handle things like f/1.2 with autofocus. (Yes they have lenses that go to f/1.2 but as I understand it, they only shoot manual focus). The wedding photographer I work with always shoots autofocus because it is faster than pulling focus.

All that aside, In my experience shooting with both the 5D mkIII, 6D, and the Panasonic GH4, I would say that a 6D beats it every day of the week for wedding videography. I say this shooting only Canon glass (with the metabones speedbooster) on the GH4 so if the native glass somehow makes it better in low light, then I would take that back, but as of now, I've hated my experience going anywhere but Canon (though I expect I'll try the A7s very soon).

I am in no way saying that Canon DSLRs are the best way to shoot if you are in wedding video, but I am saying that in my experience, they beat out the GH4. Which just happens to be the only interchangeable camera system I've tried other than the Canon DSLRs.

I typically shoot with a 5D mkIII and a 6D interchangeably. I can barely tell a quality difference in the video between the two. However when stacked up next to a GH4, I'd say the GH4 is literally worhtless. 4k is fine but I hate that I end up applying neat video to every clip from the GH4 that is taken inside a church.

Maybe the Sony A7s will blow me out of the water, but since my style requires me to use interchangeable lenses, the Sony rx100 ii and the rx10 ii are out of the question and the price point of the A7rii (as well as the lack of higher ISO settings like the A7s) put it well out of the question for me personally.

As a final disclaimer, I think I should write that if it isn't clear already, I am and have been a Canon fanboy for a long time. I have no experience with Nikon cameras for stills or video. For my style of wedding video, I need interchangeable lenses.

I want to go ahead and reiterate that I am not saying Canon is for everyone, but I don't think they can be entirely discounted as a solid brand for HDSLR shooters.
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Old August 19th, 2015, 11:03 PM   #4
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Re: Sony rx10ii fz1000 6d 70d

This is a really subjective issue because you'll find people on every side who are 100% convinced their camera is the best. I own 2 Canon C100 Mark 1s and I absolutely swear by them as they continue to exceed my expectations. The only other camera I've seen that makes skin tones look as good as the C100 is the Sony FS7 which is a very large and heavy camera to use for weddings.

I think the A7R II looks like a great camera except that it has overheating issues when shooting 4K. If they get this bug fixed then I think that would be a great camera to get because it offers high dynamic range, great low light, and incredible detail in 4K.

The A7S is a nice camera, but I've seen one of my 2nd shooters bring it along to weddings and in most situations skin tones look very unflattering compared to the C100. When my editor (who is a Panasonic guy) has to choose between shots he almost always goes with the C100. In low light the A7S absolutely amazing and the size is great for getting in tight spaces. However it has a very sterile look to it that I just don't find nearly as appealing as my C100. I think the A7S is much better for documentary work where it's not quite as important to make everyone look amazing.

The GH4 produces some of the nicest looking images I've seen when shooting in 4K. The colors are great, skin tones look very pleasing, and it has enough dynamic range for most situations. It's not quite as good in low light which is probably it's main weakness in my opinion, but overall it's an amazing camera.

The interesting thing is that you can ask someone who owns any of these cameras and they probably see them totally differently. So I would say that if you're a big fan of the look Canon DSLRs give you then keep shooting with them. Most brides couldn't care less what you shoot on as long as they look good and the footage looks good.
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Old August 19th, 2015, 11:35 PM   #5
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Re: Sony rx10ii fz1000 6d 70d

Doing a post saying "Am I wrong" is a toughie Steve.

All the Canon people will say "awesome" all the Sony people will say "Yuk" as so it goes on and on.

What car do you drive and why? Did you buy the wrong car ?? It's very much the same with cameras!

Don't ask opinions just use what YOU like not what others like ... Based on your post I have no idea why you even bought anything else except Canon since you have such glowing reviews on what you already have ... Are you wrong ..absolutely YES ...Your heart is set on the Canon look so you were indeed wrong to buy anything else even to "try" ...send them all back and stick to what you have as you are obviously thrilled with them.
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Old August 20th, 2015, 12:39 AM   #6
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Re: Sony rx10ii fz1000 6d 70d

As others have said, camera preference is subjective. I have got some great video out of the GH4, but then I love shooting with it and have a wide variety of lenses to support it. Hands down, Canon produce great looking colour straight out of the camera, whilst others need grading. However detail wise, I find canon wanting. Wide shots don't always hold up to full HD standards. For close ups of people, great, but in the 6d, moiré can be seen in some shots and overall I find wide shots of buildings, countryside and even people not to have the same wow factor. I've had 2nd shooters use the 5d mark iii. I agree with an above post that it's a great photographic tool. However I'm shooting video and the lack of features, no 4k and that some of the HD shots look more like 720p than 1080 alas does not endear me to this camera. 6d to my eyes shows the same flaws but adds moiré to the list.

So what's left, lowlight. Well I've rarely applied neat video to gh4 footage, but then I have as I said, a great range of lenses. Ultimately if you like the canon look, nothing said here will change your mind or persuade you to replace all your gear. However the canon look isn't for everyone, including me.
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Old August 20th, 2015, 12:57 AM   #7
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Re: Sony rx10ii fz1000 6d 70d

Hi Steve

I think we all have different ideas of what our weddings should look like ..I loved the Sony EA-50's but the image just sucked ..other would love it of course. I happen to like the IQ and colour that Panasonic produces so that's why I went back to Panny ...then again our style leans heavily towards documentary style and the video look so again my cameras give me just that .. I'm not big into everything in shallow DOF ..that's not my style. If I was I think I would gravitate towards GH4's as they have 4K and I still like the Panasonic look ... never been impressed with Canon at all ..but that's just me ..I say each to their own preference ...Canon have been very slack on the 4K uptake ..I wonder if they will bring out a 5DIV or maybe a C400 with 4K options.

Maybe it's best to stay on the fence for a while and see what comes out later ...you guys are heading towards Autumn already so things will slow down when it starts getting chilly??

Chris
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Old August 20th, 2015, 02:42 AM   #8
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Re: Sony rx10ii fz1000 6d 70d

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthias Claflin View Post
I hate that I end up applying neat video to every clip from the GH4 that is taken inside a church.
Have you been shooting with a f5.6 lens and is the church in a cave? :) I don't share that experience at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthias Claflin
but canon 70d, 6d, 5d, nothing can beat, tell me I'm wrong,
That's a very subjective opinion, if it works for you then great but don't think that's the best way to cover a wedding, to some, like me, 4K is an important feature, to others they couldn't live without shooting at 50.000+ iso on the a7s and others just need to have the ibis from the olympus omd series. My latest wedding (http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/wedding-...ing-ghent.html) was shot on a panasonic gh3/4-rx10 and ax100, I could say nothing can beat them and you tell me I"m wrong, but I don't see the reason in starting such a thread because what's the point? I think if you say it like this: "but the man behind the camera, nothing can beat, tell me I"m wrong", then everyone should know the answer :)
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Old August 20th, 2015, 03:18 AM   #9
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Re: Sony rx10ii fz1000 6d 70d

Whoops touchy subject sorry.... Just stating the new FZ1000 and Sony RX10ii are not as good as the canons because i sent the fz1000 back and have the RX10ii.. OK my point of view but true for me... And yes its all subjective to everyone's uses agreed. No worries not a big issue guys, phew...
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Old August 20th, 2015, 03:21 AM   #10
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Re: Sony rx10ii fz1000 6d 70d

I like to shoot weddings with small, portable, function laden cameras.

The GH4 is a killer in these requirements. Its only downside is its low light performance, but with speedboosters, fast lenses and the odd off camera light its not a problem. So its all GH4's for me. The form factor alone makes it a winner in my books, not to mention the light weight and space saving glass. I also like using matching camera systems that share the same batteries, lens mounts, and accessories. And matching the cameras in the edit is a breeze.

I think Canon are overlooking mirrorless cameras, DSLR's are fast becoming obsolete and Canon have their blinkers on.

If I was invested in EF mount glass, I would be looking into shooting with the C100mk2. Great image, small form factor, lots of usable video features.

But at the end of the day its horses for courses. You like what you like for any reason you choose to mention. Cameras are tools, if it works for you then that's fine. Each to their own. Long live choice and great story telling.
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Old August 20th, 2015, 03:33 AM   #11
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Re: Sony rx10ii fz1000 6d 70d

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Originally Posted by Steve Bleasdale View Post
Whoops touchy subject sorry.... No worries not a big issue guys, phew...
Common Steve, what did you expect when you start a thread like this :)
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Old August 20th, 2015, 04:00 AM   #12
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Re: Sony rx10ii fz1000 6d 70d

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Originally Posted by Steve Bleasdale View Post
Whoops touchy subject sorry.... Just stating the new FZ1000 and Sony RX10ii are not as good as the canons because i sent the fz1000 back and have the RX10ii.. OK my point of view but true for me... And yes its all subjective to everyone's uses agreed. No worries not a big issue guys, phew...
Both cameras you mention are 1" sensor bridge cameras and even I'm on the fence about investing in the RX10 due to its sensor size. It makes up for it in features mind, but if you're after a certain look that Canon gives, a camera like the xc10 would be more to your liking if a bridge camera is indeed what you're after.
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Old August 20th, 2015, 04:48 AM   #13
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Re: Sony rx10ii fz1000 6d 70d

Quote:
Just stating the new FZ1000 and Sony RX10ii are not as good as the canons
Ok, if you want to compare: The rx10 II: build in ND's, stepless irisring, constant f2.8 24-200mm 35mm equiv lens, stabilised lens, up to 1000fps, 4K; slog, motorised zoom, peaking, zebra's, XAVC-S codec etc...

The 5dIII: high iso performance, full frame sensor, ...uh, help me out here, if it's a better (video)camera then the rx10II then what, beside the mentioned obvious advantages, make this a "better camera"? Or maybe the moire galore from the 6D makes this camera better too? :)
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Old August 20th, 2015, 05:37 AM   #14
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Re: Sony rx10ii fz1000 6d 70d

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Originally Posted by Steve Bleasdale View Post
OK my point of view but true for me... And yes its all subjective to everyone's uses agreed. No worries not a big issue guys, phew...
I keep coming back :) but I have to say that this thread's purpose is only to provoke and will lead into pointless this camera is better then that camera discussions. You asked to prove you wrong and when some try to do that you give the impression we are overreacting? So what exactly was the point of your thread then?
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Old August 20th, 2015, 06:16 AM   #15
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Re: Sony rx10ii fz1000 6d 70d

I can see Noa's point here Steve. You basically tell us how wonderful the Canon's are as cameras and how terrible the rest are and then say "Am I wrong" ... When points are brought out that cameras others like as opposed to Canon it's not an over reaction it's enthusiasm. Noa likes Panasonic and so do I ..the performance, look and IQ is stunning and it suits our needs ... you asked, we are telling you what we think.

If you want to hear about other options then you need to be subjective and not appear to have already decided on your choice and biased towards one brand.

A far better post would be, "if you were offered the following cameras to use at weddings, cost aside, which would you use and why" .. that would show no bias towards any particular manufacturer and you would have received interesting replies, also un biased.
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