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Shooting non-repeatable events: weddings, recitals, plays, performances...


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Old September 15th, 2015, 12:09 AM   #76
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Re: UDH Blu Ray Player is the future!

Ah Steve.. you hit the nail on the head ..yes, they are simply too lazy. I actively use UHD and HD and shoot everything in progressive. (I actually was still shooting 50i last year and that was because it gave me no hassles and brides no hassles, despite having a progressive TV!)

I figure I'm pretty much up to date I reckon .. I shoot on 4K cameras and, in fact, I lost one job in 2014 because the groom insisted on 4K cameras being used although the bride having no idea what he was talking about ..no, he had no idea how he would view his 4K footage and admitted he had never seen 4K footage ..he just wanted it!!

As long as we are ready to deliver 4K when it is asked for, we can be pretty comfortable knowing we are up to date!

I saw a bride just a few hours ago and she was so happy when I showed her the HD footage on USB and our LCD video book but seemed a little worried until I pulled out the DVD case with two disks inside ... that made her happy and she seemed quite relieved that she would get a DVD set for herself and the parents so yes I strongly agree that it's what they are used to! They can of course be educated but it will take time!!
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Old September 15th, 2015, 03:19 AM   #77
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Re: UDH Blu Ray Player is the future!

Perhaps a few thoughts on "history" would be helpful...

When "HD" came out, there were mediocre 720 "HD" screens at lower consumer-y prices, and the higher priced full HD 1080 screens - when half the "HD" sets look barely better than the "SD" ones, "HD" didn't show as well.

4K is ONE resolution, no halfway compromised "sorta 4K"... aside from a few "sorta high resolution" computer screens I've run into on smaller laptops. IOW, you buy a 4k TV, even a cheap one, it's 4K, and should look pretty good with 4K content. 4K screens are about 20-30% of the displayed products in all the local "big box" retailers... the market penetration is already surprisingly high.


When HD hit the market, there were TWO competing playback systems - Blu-Ray and the now defunct HD-DVD, meaning if you wanted to play back a "HD" disc, you had to decide between two differing formats, one of which was likely to become a dinosaur, and SO... you bought a DVD... it was familiar, and it did the job - by the time Blu-Ray came out on top, the initial "thrill" and "buzz" was LONG GONE... only now is BR becoming "expected"... and people are probably still watching SD DVD's on their 1080 screens... I know I'm not the only one who has observed that despite having "HD cable", the family many times is watching the "SD" feeds... either because that's where the content is, or it looks "good 'nuf"... I recall watching a movie and thinking it looked a bit fuzzy, only to discover somehow we'd started the "SD" version... yup, it wasn't THAT bad...

If, as it appears there is a SINGLE "UHDBR" format (ugh, that's an ugly moniker, someone in marketing needs to come up with something more "catchy"!) that is solidly backwards compatible, comparably priced to DVD players (meaning under $100 from the get go, not start high and slowly lower the MSRP over months or years), and new movie releases are available early on, along with affordable burners and media, then 4k/UHD could catch on very quickly. The burner certainly is at a nice price point, I remember waiting FOREVER to buy a BR burner, as they were expensive for a LONG time!


The ONE hitch I see is that on the "capture" side of the game, there are "4K" devices with tiny sensors that are frankly pretty crap, so there's some 4K that barely looks "HD", let alone 4K. I think we've had sufficient "sampling" here to show that small sensor 4K is "OK", but when put side by side with a larger sensor camera that has that "looking through a window" vibe, the difference is noticeable. Probably for the average consumer that buys a new phone with a 4K camera, the expectations aren't as high, so maybe this won't be a big deal? And of course they may well play it back on a HDTV anyway...


Historically speaking, 4K is not HD... mistakes of the past not repeated could make for a much more aggressive adoption than we saw with HD.
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Old September 15th, 2015, 03:42 AM   #78
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Re: UDH Blu Ray Player is the future!

I had a laptop that had an HD-DVD drive. I never bought any disks as even then I had a feeling it wasn't going to be the winner in the HD war. I think next year when 4k bluray players and disks make an appearance in shops, 4K will start to become known to the mass market. It'll be interesting to see where things stand a year from now.
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Old September 15th, 2015, 03:59 AM   #79
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Re: UDH Blu Ray Player is the future!

I wonder if there will be any conflicts between native 4K (4096x2160) and UHD (3840x2160) ?? The first issue straight away id the different aspect ratios.

My cams shoot UHD so the aspect is still 16:9 so there is no problem but will/are consumer TV's 4K or UHD ???

That's almost the same issue as we had between HDV and HD with files that were 1440x1080 and 1920x1080!!

The last thing we need in a new format is having to ask the question do you want UHD 4K or full 4K ???
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Old September 15th, 2015, 04:13 AM   #80
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Re: UDH Blu Ray Player is the future!

I wouldn't worry as UHD is more the 16:9 version with 25p or 30p depending on region, whilst true 4K is wider, more cinematic and is confined to 24p. Thus the former is more for TV, the latter more for movies, but TV's although advertise as 4K are actually UHD or at least mine is.

The difference is not as great as 1440 by 1080 which is the 4:3 version of HD. Oddly I can get a 4:3 ratio on my GH4 by selecting the 4K photo option, but the average punter won't really care. Whether UHD or 4K, it'll still be seen and described as 4K by most. Especially as most resolution formats are defined by vertical rather than horizontal resolution.
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Old September 15th, 2015, 07:28 AM   #81
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Re: UDH Blu Ray Player is the future!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Harding View Post
I wonder if there will be any conflicts between native 4K (4096x2160) and UHD (3840x2160) ?? The first issue straight away id the different aspect ratios.
Besides the different AR? No.

Quote:
My cams shoot UHD so the aspect is still 16:9 so there is no problem but will/are consumer TV's 4K or UHD ???
Yes, there are exceptions, but they are very few.

Quote:
That's almost the same issue as we had between HDV and HD with files that were 1440x1080 and 1920x1080!!
Not at all the same issue. HDV was 1440x1080 put with pixels having a different non-square shape. This helped preserve bandwidth in the 25Mbps MPEG-2 8ibt 4:2:0 encoder (which is about half as efficient as MPEG-4 / H.264). It was still 1920x1080 when you brought it into your NLE, provided it picked the correct pixel AR.


Quote:
The last thing we need in a new format is having to ask the question do you want UHD 4K or full 4K ???
You won't have to ask that question. No one will ask for DCI 4K because it will be letterboxed on their display. No one is asking for Cinemascope from 1080 generated material are they? Or DCI 2K?

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Originally Posted by Steve Burkett View Post
whilst true 4K is wider, more cinematic and is confined to 24p.
I wouldn't call it "more cinematic". DCI 4K is the resolution container that movies delivered digital through a DCP use, regardless of their aspect ratio. It has nothing to do with being "cinematic"...that's more in line with lighting, art direction, and the work of your colorist.

Quote:
The difference is not as great as 1440 by 1080 which is the 4:3 version of HD. Oddly I can get a 4:3 ratio on my GH4 by selecting the 4K photo option, but the average punter won't really care.
They would care if you gave them a 4:3 video to play on their 16:9 LCD TV because it won't take up their whole screen and be pillarboxed on the sides. What the 4:3 mode on the GH4 is for is shooting with PL anamorphic lenses, which will give you 2.40:1 aspect ratio when you correct for the AR.

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Whether UHD or 4K, it'll still be seen and described as 4K by most. Especially as most resolution formats are defined by vertical rather than horizontal resolution.
Exactly.
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Old September 15th, 2015, 08:46 AM   #82
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Re: UDH Blu Ray Player is the future!

Thanks Gary

What Steve is actually describing I think is unique to our Panasonic cameras and is a 4K Photo Mode where you can shoot UHD video and then select any frame from the video and the camera will produce a very nice 8mp still directly from the footage and write it to the SD card. Because users might want their captured photos in a traditional aspect ratio the Panny 4K Photo mode allows you to select the aspect ratio that you want to film in. (All that blurb comes from Panasonic not me!!) I haven't used it as yet
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Old September 15th, 2015, 08:47 AM   #83
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Re: UDH Blu Ray Player is the future!

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Originally Posted by Chris Harding View Post
What Steve is actually describing I think is unique to our Panasonic cameras and is a 4K Photo Mode where you can shoot UHD video and then select any frame from the video
Yes, there is also an Anamorphic mode that is basically the same thing, but with a different frame rate option (Photo mode is 29.97P last I checked unless the latest firmware lets you change this).
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Old September 17th, 2015, 11:05 AM   #84
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Re: UDH Blu Ray Player is the future!

First 8K TV screen to be put on sale by Sharp in October - First 8K TV screen to be put on sale by Sharp in October - BBC News
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Old September 17th, 2015, 11:34 AM   #85
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Re: UDH Blu Ray Player is the future!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Rush View Post
First 8K TV screen to be put on sale by Sharp in October - First 8K TV screen to be put on sale by Sharp in October - BBC News
"However, the 85in (2.16m) device's 16m yen ($133,000; 86,000) price is likely to limit sales." Bit of an understatement there!
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