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Old October 22nd, 2015, 11:20 AM   #16
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Re: How much do you invest in a pc?

My friend buys Apple machines, expensive units, about $7K per machine for his editing staff. I look over the component list and I can't believe the price he paid, and the Graphics cards are actually somewhat dated!

Apples are seriously expensive and it would be a cinch to use same components and build your own for half the price or less. As has been said it's a closed system, but they are by not means any better because of the badge on the case. They put together super compatible components, charge a lot, and people think that Macs are "amazing". They are fine, but anyone that knows hardware can put their own together for much, much less, and get a faster CPU in the bargain.
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Old October 22nd, 2015, 10:26 PM   #17
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Re: How much do you invest in a pc?

I buy a new iMac every other year, max out the RAM (aftermarket), and sell the old one. Cost is less than $400/year. I do the same with the macbook, sometimes buy a new one every year. Their resale value is unbelievable - the Macbook costs more like $200/yr.
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Old October 23rd, 2015, 01:05 PM   #18
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Hard Drives?

So I'm now looking at starting to spec out a new system thanks to this talk and other discussions online. lol

I'm looking at hard drives and am seeing these PCI-E hard drives that go where like video cards and sound cards usually go... and the speeds on these things are considerably faster than even SSDs.

HyperX Predator Half-Height, Half-Length (HH-HL) 240GB PCI-Express 2.0 x4 Internal Solid State Drive (SSD) SHPM2280P2H/240G (with HHHL Adapter) - Newegg.com

1400MB/s read and 1000MB/s write

On that one vs about 1/2 those numbers for SSDs...

I may have to look into this more.

Has anyone used one of these? I see some folks in reviews saying it's their C: Drive.
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Old October 23rd, 2015, 01:25 PM   #19
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Re: How much do you invest in a pc?

I'm new to video and video editing. My computer has the ancient Q6600 cpu which, I discovered, cannot handle HD multi-cam editing very well. I also discovered that the cpu was running very hot when exporting, despite having a massive heat sink. So last week I bought parts to build a computer dedicated to video (and photo) editing. I wanted to have this last me a long time but I didn't want to overspend. So I bought a i7-5280K cpu, a Geforce 960-based video card, 16GB of RAM and some more drives. The idea is that I would upgrade a few components if/when I move to UHD cameras.

I finally put it together last night but have yet to install the OS - Windows 10. All together, I probably spent CAD$2000, but I think it might last for quite a while.

Regarding issues with PCs - I have been using/building them since I was a teen and I've never had any software problems - only hardware problems. Maybe I've been lucky?
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Old October 23rd, 2015, 02:31 PM   #20
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Re: Hard Drives?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle Root View Post
So I'm now looking at starting to spec out a new system thanks to this talk and other discussions online. lol

I'm looking at hard drives and am seeing these PCI-E hard drives that go where like video cards and sound cards usually go... and the speeds on these things are considerably faster than even SSDs.

HyperX Predator Half-Height, Half-Length (HH-HL) 240GB PCI-Express 2.0 x4 Internal Solid State Drive (SSD) SHPM2280P2H/240G (with HHHL Adapter) - Newegg.com

1400MB/s read and 1000MB/s write

On that one vs about 1/2 those numbers for SSDs...

I may have to look into this more.

Has anyone used one of these? I see some folks in reviews saying it's their C: Drive.
Kyle, they were cost prohibitive until now. Check this out Samsung 950 Pro SSD Review - Tom's Hardware
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Old October 23rd, 2015, 02:45 PM   #21
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Re: How much do you invest in a pc?

I have read ssd's have a much shorter lifespan then harddrives, especially when they are stressed so much as a videodrive + the fact that harddrives still give you a lot more space for the same money. Those PCI-E ssd drives are not a good investment if you plan on using them as a disc for your OS and programs, the speed difference compared to a regular ssd to start up programs is negligible.
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Old October 23rd, 2015, 03:18 PM   #22
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Re: How much do you invest in a pc?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Harper View Post
My friend buys Apple machines, expensive units, about $7K per machine for his editing staff. I look over the component list and I can't believe the price he paid, and the Graphics cards are actually somewhat dated!
The baseline Mac Pro is $3k, the top-end Mac Pro is $4k.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Harper View Post
Apples are seriously expensive and it would be a cinch to use same components and build your own for half the price or less. As has been said it's a closed system, but they are by not means any better because of the badge on the case. They put together super compatible components, charge a lot, and people think that Macs are "amazing". They are fine, but anyone that knows hardware can put their own together for much, much less, and get a faster CPU in the bargain.
You can't put together your own Apple. You could put together your own Windows PC, but then it would run Windows and it wouldn't be an Apple.

This is sort of like saying "why on earth would anyone buy a Lexus, my Honda has just as much trunk space and goes faster and costs half as much."

Well, some people don't want a Honda. They want a Lexus.

I was a PC guy for decades until basically all editing on the PC died out and I switched to Mac. Everything is so much smoother.

Every few years I upgrade, and I always investigate moving back to PC (especially now that I edit Premiere) ... but it just doesn't make sense for me. The couple hundred bucks it costs me to stay Mac pays for itself over and over again in reliability and not having to deal with Windows.
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Old October 23rd, 2015, 03:36 PM   #23
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Re: How much do you invest in a pc?

Quote:
Well, some people don't want a Honda. They want a Lexus.
If you want a lexus in a pc shape then you buy a workstation, they also have certified components/drivers that are specifically chosen and tested not to have any conflicts and it's also priced accordingly.

Quote:
The baseline Mac Pro is $3k, the top-end Mac Pro is $4k.
A top end mac pro goes over 10k if you max it out on the apple configuration page so Jeff's 7k estimate can be correct depending on what hardware they choose.

I think it's best not to go the "my pc/mac is better then yours" route, it leads nowhere, I did find it interesting to hear about selling your second hand macs though and to keep your new investments easier on your wallet, I personally would also only buy a second hand computer if it would be max 1 year old and if there still would be a manufacturer warranty on it.
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Old October 23rd, 2015, 04:14 PM   #24
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Re: How much do you invest in a pc?

To get back on subject I like to invest & buy high end at the time, and have it last. I'm still on an HP from early 2011 which originally had 8GB Ram & I upgraded it to 16GB about 2 years ago. Handles HDV & AVCHD fine.

The only issues I have are my hard drive seems to have some corrupted space, as about 300GB seems deleted but not available. I have Free Disk Analyser which shows the files, but I cannot delete them (I think it says 'Unrecognized' or something. They're definitely old weddings from 2013) nor thru Windows Explorer. I'd like to run CCleanup after I'm done all my years edits (2 left) and see if I can recover the space, but I don't want to eff it up & do something remarkably stupid while in the middle of editing these. Plus, then if I need a new editing PC I can take my time in buying it, not be in a asap rush. I do have a laptop, but it's old & I couldn't think of editing on it, just good enough to live & check email & surf the web.

Ultimately tho I do think it's wise to go all out on Computers, as RAM & HD space you can typically upgrade halfway thru the computers lifecycle. Admittedly 5 years was a great run outta mine, I'll see if I can get another. I'd like to check out this Windows 10 upgrade but I use CS4 still & I read it doesn't work on it, so I'll hold off.

Last edited by David Barnett; October 23rd, 2015 at 04:46 PM.
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Old October 23rd, 2015, 04:46 PM   #25
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Re: How much do you invest in a pc?

I have had a WD black drive go bad on me with "lost media" notifications in Edius and after a restart of my pc got a lot of "fixing errors" messages on files that where located on that drive, windows 7 each time managed to make the files accessible again but after the following "lost media" message I just replaced the drive. I would just copy all the data on your malfunctioning disc to another disc and then format it and see if it then fixes your problem, I wouldn't mess with it with valuable data on it.

On my new pc I still installed windows 7 pro as I do have good experiences with it and all my older software runs on it (I still use access 2000 that runs fine on win 7 but not on win 8 anymore)
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Old October 24th, 2015, 12:13 AM   #26
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Re: How much do you invest in a pc?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Noa Put View Post
A top end mac pro goes over 10k if you max it out on the apple configuration page so Jeff's 7k estimate can be correct depending on what hardware they choose.
I bet I could spec out a Windows PC that would be more expensive than the highest-end Mac Pro. It still wouldn't have any bearing on this conversation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noa Put View Post
I did find it interesting to hear about selling your second hand macs though and to keep your new investments easier on your wallet, I personally would also only buy a second hand computer if it would be max 1 year old and if there still would be a manufacturer warranty on it.
I agree with you 1000% and I am stunned it continues to work. Learned this trick from a fellow named "Jade" on arstechnica who referred to it as "the Jade plan", in fact if you google it, you'll find his numbers behind it. It is far and away cheaper to buy and sell every 12-18 months than it is to buy high-end and EOL the PC at the end of 4 years.

My dad buys a new $15k riding lawn mower every single year. He uses it until the day the new model comes out then he buys a brand new one and sells the used one for $1k off list price. They sell right away. Seems terribly wasteful, but if you look at it, you'd expect a riding lawnmower to last 10-15 years and then be worth basically nothing, and as it stands he is riding in a brand new lawnmower every day for 15 years and basically paying the price as you are, riding your broken down dinged up lawnmower 15 years from now. It's a good deal for my old man, it's a good deal for the guy saving $1k on what's basically a brand-new lawnmower (with 1 year wear on it). I would never buy a 1 year old lawnmower for only $1k less than list on a new one, but I gotta be honest, $1k saved is $1k saved, there are (apparently) a lot of people out there ready to save a thousand bucks.

On both lawnmowers and Macs.
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Old October 24th, 2015, 01:22 AM   #27
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Re: How much do you invest in a pc?

Quote:
I bet I could spec out a Windows PC that would be more expensive than the highest-end Mac Pro. It still wouldn't have any bearing on this conversation.
Not sure what you are trying to say here, I was responding to your statement that a top end mac pro was 4k which was a reply to Jeff's statement that his friends mac costs 7k, on the apple page it's easy to reach 7k once you tick a few upgrade boxes so my point was that Jeff's statement could be correct. It is correct though that you can get similar prices on workstations that can be equipped with the same components.

Quote:
I would never buy a 1 year old lawnmower for only $1k less than list on a new one
The amount that other's save on a second hand computer I pay for a new one :) The only thing that would worry me is warranty, if that is covered for at least another year then you'd have some piece of mind if a expensive motherboard or graphics card would die. Prices on some components in these high end computers can also be more then I would be willing to pay.
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Old October 24th, 2015, 05:43 AM   #28
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Re: How much do you invest in a pc?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Noa Put View Post
If you want a lexus in a pc shape then you buy a workstation, they also have certified components/drivers that are specifically chosen and tested not to have any conflicts and it's also priced accordingly.
Historically Mac Pros have been similarly priced to top end Dell or HP workstation in fact often rather better value,
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noa Put View Post
I did find it interesting to hear about selling your second hand macs though and to keep your new investments easier on your wallet, I personally would also only buy a second hand computer if it would be max 1 year old and if there still would be a manufacturer warranty on it.
It's a sound investment to purchase Apple Care which extends the warranty to three years in total. It's also literally impossible to purchase for a PC the sort of warranty that Apple offers e.g. worldwide cover, onsite repair for desktops, vast international network for walk-in service at Apple retail stores Apple (UK) - Support - AppleCare - Mac and Apple Display
You can buy Apple Care any time during the first year after purchase.
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Old October 24th, 2015, 06:23 AM   #29
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Re: How much do you invest in a pc?

I guess if you plan to sell your computer every year the extended warranty is something that would make sense to get extra as it would sell easier, I"m just not that into buying second hand considering how cheap pc's seem to be priced these days. Much depends on what software you are on because you mainly buy a pc that is optimized for it.
When I see that for just a 1K investment that will last me 3-4 years which allows me to run four 4k native layers in a multicam without stutter and can output a one hour film with native 4K files in 25 minutes to a bluray compatible file that's more then fast enough for my current use. The best warranty in case of hardware failure however would be to buy two 1K pc and use one as backup, no need to wait, just switch drives and your editing again and in the meantime you just send your pc in for repair. If having back up is that important when you have deadlines to meet it's about the cheapest option and you have a equally specc'd pc, many, me included use an older pc as back up but often you run into performance issues handling demanding codecs.

Like I said stability is even more important for me but my experience in that area with pc's I bought throughout the years from large pc dealers have always been very good with the exception from the pc I had been using until recently which was custom build. I only hope my current one will make me happy again :)
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Old October 24th, 2015, 05:29 PM   #30
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Re: How much do you invest in a pc?

Gentlemen,

I have PCs in my editing suite that are now self built with help from my brilliant son. Its time for a new one so no use going into the current model. This is what is exciting to me. In addition to my video work I also work as a Producer/Technical Director on corporate AV gigs. So I have a long history of buying high end expensive lap tops. My "show computers" must be 100% reliable and do much more than just PowerPoint. I have used both Macs and PCs with equal success. The part I don't like is once you go for high end the price goes up exponentially, but of course, if your lucky you get what you pay for.

My new HP 17" Z Book Work Station lap top (if you can call it all that) is mind blowing to me. I am on the road a lot. I finally have a computer that can do everything I need and do it well. I can edit multiple layers of HD video and it does not even blink. It works for me on video sets, in hotel room edit sessions, and in the ballroom. I have had it eight months without a single hiccup. Connectivity is super important to me, it has that, plus with display port outputs I bought a bunch of adapters for legacy connections. Yes, it is big and heavy to travel with, but that is OK, part of the weight is the rock solid build I need. It lists for $3,000.00 but I paid $2,500.00 I paid dearly for it but it is worth every dollar. HP did a great job of making this a truly professional machine and I would not say that about some of their other stuff I have owned

2.8 GHz Intel Core i7-4810MQ Quad-Core
16GB of 1600 MHz PC3-12800 DDR3L SDRAM
17.3" Anti-Glare Display
Full HD1920 x 1080 Native Resolution
NVIDIA Quadro K3100M Graphics Card (4GB)
256GB M.2 PCIe SSD & 1TB 7200 rpm HDD
SuperMulti DVD Burner
802.11ac Wi-Fi & Bluetooth 4.0
Thunderbolt 2
USB 3
Display ports (enables, HDMI, DVI, Firewire, external monitors etc)
VGA out
Windows 7 Pro

I love this machine. They also make "Z" series towers. If I was not going to build my own I would look into those.

It runs so clean I am hesitant to go with Windows 10. I'm not sure yet? I am usually a, if it works don't fix it guy. But Win 10 is supposed to be able to take advantage of some of my components for even more efficiency. You thoughts on that appreciated?

Kind Regards,

Steve

Note: I also bought a Blackmagic Design Intensity Shuttle with Thunderbolt to give it HD video live in/out. What a piece of crap. Total waste of $225.00
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