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Shooting non-repeatable events: weddings, recitals, plays, performances...


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Old November 17th, 2015, 06:01 PM   #16
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Re: Camcorders only

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Originally Posted by Noa Put View Post
I"m not questioning your shooting style, if it works for you that is all that counts but I"m sure not many would deliberately stop and restart multiple camera's during a one hour ceremony if it concerns camera's that have no recording limit. There is nothing convenient about it, on the contrary, you are only introducing room for error and have extra work editing it. I say it has everything to do with the 12/30 min recording of a dslr because they will introduce the same risk. I would not even think of using 2 or 3 dslr's with such a limit during a ceremony, it would just be a matter of time before I am not able to reach a camera to restart or just would be to late. Right now I just start the camera up in the beginning of the ceremony and shut it down at the end so I can check up on them when time allows, not when a clock tells me I have to go or when something important is happening and I can't get away knowing a important angle is about to stop recording. That's not "convenient".
And this is a POV from a person who has the freedom to move around during a wedding ceremony.

I use the AX100 to cover me, and a GH3 and GH4. Most ceremonies I shoot last 30 minutes tops, so the GH3 as an alternative angle usually lasts no problem, whilst the AX100 is a solider b-cam and the manned camera is always running (GH4). I have used two camcorders and a GH4 when I filmed a longer ceremony though, and I am interested in adding a GH4R for this reason, so that it can add as a back up; but I'll most likely wait for the GH5 and then decide whether to stock up on GH4s or spring for the GH5 instead.

I think Panasonic have just made a massive choice in allowing unlimited recording in the EU, but I still think camcorders have their place, which is why I'm also drawn to a truly professional camcorder like the new Panasonic 4K camera... it's amazing how much we're able to debate... so many options!
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Old November 17th, 2015, 06:15 PM   #17
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Re: Camcorders only

Hey Steve

If I was in the UK it would be a hassle I'm sure. Here, probably 90% of our wedding ceremonies are no longer than 20 minutes unlike long and involved Anglican Church ones in dark and dreary venues. Even our Catholics have trimmed the services down so a reset is rarely required. Our speeches run around the 5 - 8 minute mark and sometimes they come up to the lectern and say "Thanks for coming" and sit down again. I honestly cannot remember a single wedding this season where I had to stop the main camera so if it does happen it's very seldom. On the rare occasion where I have split the ceremony, it has only been the A-Cam that needs to be stopped and that's where the bride has decided on a full mass and recording the priest wandering around the rear of the Church collecting the bread and wine hasn't been essential footage! I only use 3 cameras at the ceremony and the action cam I just let run of course and the B-Cam is only shooting short clips so there is never really an issue to run around resetting cameras ..if there was, I would be using camcorders for sure.
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Old November 17th, 2015, 06:41 PM   #18
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Re: Camcorders only

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Originally Posted by Steve Burkett View Post
God knows how you managed running 4 with the limit. I've now got 3 of my 4 cameras using the same battery type and its a godsend for keeping things simple in managing multiple cameras. I don't suppose the x70 and the ax100 use the same battery; probably a lot to ask.
Yeah it's hard enough when on your own, to keep an eye on focus, exposure and framing with four cams. The time limit adds another coupla laps around the place to re-start. Some churches are so small, it can be a problem just getting back to the cameras.

During the Ceremony I have to start the cameras WAY early, so I can be ready for the Bride arrival. A real problem when the Bride is late. Been caught running back "100 metres or more" to restart cause she's late, then miss the arrival.......

Makes me think that I should go back to two camera weddings only, one hand held shoulder mounted, one on sticks. End up with a heap of panning and zooming. Not a fan!

Whew, decisions, decisions! I'm so "confusement"!!!!!!!!!!
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Old November 17th, 2015, 06:44 PM   #19
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Re: Camcorders only

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Originally Posted by Chris Harding View Post
Hey Steve

If I was in the UK it would be a hassle I'm sure. Here, probably 90% of our wedding ceremonies are no longer than 20 minutes unlike long and involved Anglican Church ones in dark and dreary venues. Even our Catholics have trimmed the services down so a reset is rarely required. Our speeches run around the 5 - 8 minute mark and sometimes they come up to the lectern and say "Thanks for coming" and sit down again. I honestly cannot remember a single wedding this season where I had to stop the main camera so if it does happen it's very seldom. On the rare occasion where I have split the ceremony, it has only been the A-Cam that needs to be stopped and that's where the bride has decided on a full mass and recording the priest wandering around the rear of the Church collecting the bread and wine hasn't been essential footage! I only use 3 cameras at the ceremony and the action cam I just let run of course and the B-Cam is only shooting short clips so there is never really an issue to run around resetting cameras ..if there was, I would be using camcorders for sure.
Gday Chris! I'm guessing you have someone with you!!?? Or do you manage on your own with that set up?
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Old November 17th, 2015, 06:50 PM   #20
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Re: Camcorders only

I use one of my Panasonic video cams for a continuous wide angle base shot of the ceremony and speeches. That is then used as the editing base on the timeline, with the FZ1000 footage synched to it along with a base audio track from one of the audio recorders. If I am using both FZ1000s, one is locked off and I use the remote control app to monitor it and restart if necessary. I can also adjust the zoom if I want to change the framing, without having to move from my main tripod.

Roger
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Old November 17th, 2015, 07:10 PM   #21
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Re: Camcorders only

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Originally Posted by Jack Walsh View Post

Makes me think that I should go back to two camera weddings only, one hand held shoulder mounted, one on sticks. End up with a heap of panning and zooming. Not a fan!
Surely movement and imagination is what good creative camerawork is all about, whereas a load of cameras locked off on tripods is more like cutting together cctv footage. I feel that quickly moving to something that shows emotion or reacting to the bridesmaids giggling during the ceremony, or perhaps a close up of child peering around the corner of a pew, is what helps to tell the story and make it very personal. Less can often me more in the right hands!

Roger
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Old November 17th, 2015, 08:14 PM   #22
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Re: Camcorders only

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Originally Posted by Roger Gunkel View Post
Surely movement and imagination is what good creative camerawork is all about, whereas a load of cameras locked off on tripods is more like cutting together cctv footage. I feel that quickly moving to something that shows emotion or reacting to the bridesmaids giggling during the ceremony, or perhaps a close up of child peering around the corner of a pew, is what helps to tell the story and make it very personal. Less can often me more in the right hands!

Roger
Keep talking Roger! You could convince me to simplify things.
I would probably leave one camera locked on to a medium shot of the bride and bridesmaids. So one in aisle, one on bride and bridesmaids and one on shoulder or hand held.

Last edited by Jack Walsh; November 17th, 2015 at 08:24 PM. Reason: Add.
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Old November 17th, 2015, 08:40 PM   #23
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Re: Camcorders only

I am using 1 AX100 and various other mirrorless, G7, A7R II.

I would take the form factor of the AX100 all day long if it performed better in low light, it is a joy to use.
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Old November 17th, 2015, 10:11 PM   #24
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Re: Camcorders only

Hi Jack

Nope I work solo and yes a simple setup works best for me too. Action cam high up on a light stand and then one FZ on a tripod (that carries the two receivers for audio too and the 2nd FZ is handheld ...it works and it's simple. Never had a bride complain either!
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Old November 17th, 2015, 11:01 PM   #25
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Re: Camcorders only

After reading these posts, itís surprising how many are using the AX100 cam. In a way, what is even more surprising, is how few discussion posts there have been about it.

There are several things I like about the AX100 but the best thing is there is no Ďgotcha featureí. It may not be the most complete cam out there but the good thing is there arenít any bad surprises. A few things could have been better, like the difficult to reach Focus Magnifier button, but thatís not a deal breaker. Itís a very handy package.

No-one has mentioned the AX33 and itís B.O.SS system. It uses the same NP-FV70 battery as the AX100. It would seem that it would make a good B-cam. 1/2 inch sensor.

And speaking of batteries,
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Burkett View Post
I don't suppose the x70 and the ax100 use the same battery; probably a lot to ask.
Answer: Yes, they both use the same NP-FV70 battery.
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Old November 18th, 2015, 02:02 AM   #26
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Re: Camcorders only

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Gunkel View Post
Surely movement and imagination is what good creative camerawork is all about, whereas a load of cameras locked off on tripods is more like cutting together cctv footage. I feel that quickly moving to something that shows emotion or reacting to the bridesmaids giggling during the ceremony, or perhaps a close up of child peering around the corner of a pew, is what helps to tell the story and make it very personal. Less can often me more in the right hands!

Roger
And more can mean more in the right hands too. Why should using 4 cameras instead of 2 prevent you from getting those shots of the Bridemaids giggling. I run 4-5 cameras and regularly get these very shots you describe. I've edited someone who filmed with 2 cameras and I'd say less equalled less in his case. 4 cameras doesn't necessarily equate cctv footage either. Sure having it up high and wide does give that effect, but keeping it lower and with longer focal lengths and for a 5-10 second cut can look as if someone else was filming from a different angle, especially with 4K allowing some movement in shot. Cutting to a camera at the back on closeup of the Bride and Groom or on wide, plus another on the Grooms side gives 2 other v useful angles already. Like any part of Videography, there is a skill to running 3-4 cameras. It can be used badly, but also used to great effect giving you more options than any 2 camera setup can afford. Given how limited so many venues can be - churches I'm looking at you; I could never have delivered the professional results I achieved with just 2 cameras given some of the restrictions I was required to work under. Stuck at the back, stuck within the doorway to the vestry with absolutely no view of the guests at all, stuck within a pew with just a view of the couple and told not to stand up by the choir!! Those extra cameras made all the difference then.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Walsh View Post
Makes me think that I should go back to two camera weddings only, one hand held shoulder mounted, one on sticks. End up with a heap of panning and zooming. Not a fan!
Thing is Jack, your setup is too complex running too many cameras with time limits. I have 2 cameras with continuous recording and I set these recording 15 minutes before the Bride arrives along with several recorders. I then don't have to worry about them until after the service is finished. That just leaves my main camera and 1 I operate with me also on wide angle at the front to worry about. Some cameras are placed in positions I can't hope to reach. One church, in order to gain access to the balcony, I had to climb a ladder and get through a small trap door. No way was I going to do that again after the Bride arrived. You don't necessarily need less, just make your other cameras do the work and run continuously uninterrupted.

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Nantz View Post
After reading these posts, it’s surprising how many are using the AX100 cam. In a way, what is even more surprising, is how few discussion posts there have been about it.

And speaking of batteries,

Answer: Yes, they both use the same NP-FV70 battery.
I suppose its one of those workhorse cameras that gets overlooked when compared to flashier cameras. Great they use the same batteries as the X70. I'm sure thats the right way to go.
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Old November 18th, 2015, 02:17 AM   #27
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Re: Camcorders only

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Originally Posted by Jack Walsh View Post
Yeah it's hard enough when on your own, to keep an eye on focus, exposure and framing with four cams. The time limit adds another coupla laps around the place to re-start. Some churches are so small, it can be a problem just getting back to the cameras.

During the Ceremony I have to start the cameras WAY early, so I can be ready for the Bride arrival. A real problem when the Bride is late. Been caught running back "100 metres or more" to restart cause she's late, then miss the arrival.......

Makes me think that I should go back to two camera weddings only, one hand held shoulder mounted, one on sticks. End up with a heap of panning and zooming. Not a fan!

Whew, decisions, decisions! I'm so "confusement"!!!!!!!!!!
Late brides are the bain of my life as all that time waiting to catch 'the arrival' (and this year on several occasions the bride has been well over a half hour late) you could be in the church filming lots of good stuff instead of simply staring down a road waiting to see a roller coming round the bend!

As a solo shooter I have 2 strategies of dealing with this - one is to get the father of the bride to call me when they are on their way so the most I'll have to wait is 5 minutes, the downside of this is they forget and you miss the arrival - it's happened more than once! The other thing I do is mount a GoPro where the wedding cars are going to park up - works nearly every time so If I'm inside filming guests I can nip out every few minutes and see if she's arrived - If I miss the actual arrival my GoPro gets it - as in this shot where I gaffa taped my GoPro to a stone pillar.

Pete
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Old November 18th, 2015, 02:32 AM   #28
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Re: Camcorders only

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Originally Posted by Jack Walsh View Post
I would probably leave one camera locked on to a medium shot of the bride and bridesmaids. So one in aisle, one on bride and bridesmaids and one on shoulder or hand held.
That's how I work, 1 or 2 camera's locked to a fixed position and one handheld so I can walk around and get candid shots that are impossible to get from a fixed tripod location.
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Old November 18th, 2015, 02:32 AM   #29
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Re: Camcorders only

Good tip right there Pete.
Time to dig out the go pro.........

Last edited by Jack Walsh; November 18th, 2015 at 02:38 AM. Reason: Info
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Old November 18th, 2015, 02:37 AM   #30
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Re: Camcorders only

I second that. Very useful tip. Worth it as I often miss Bridesmaids arrival if they turn up say 15 minutes before the Bride. I can't stand outside the church gate for 30 minutes to catch all the key arrivals. Roger would say it looks like cctv footage, but what the heck. Better than no footage at all.
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