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Old December 9th, 2015, 01:34 PM   #16
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Re: Difficult Bride + Discs Not Working

Bob, my brides, when they see their discs work on other players, so far each one has realized without being told that they need a new player. I haven't yet been cursed with a customer so silly that they blamed my discs when clearly the player was the issue.

Here's how it has worked for me. They call and say discs don't play properly. I ask them to try them on another player, and I ask them if they're player is old, and it's always yes, it's old. They let me know later that yes, indeed, the discs played on another player and they are going to go get a newer player, because they realize their player is old and probably outdated.

They are invariably nice about it, at least my customers have been.

Also, if the player is at fault and you send other discs that don't work, it makes you look really bad, because you've taken responsibility for the problem. If your second batch doesn't work, then your customer will blame you and it makes you look incompetent. I know because early on in my career that is what I did. Then they really got mad. If they had got a new player the problem would have been solved instead of me buying a new type of disc, wasting my time and theirs.

There is a difference between being helpful and taking responsibility for something I cannot fix. Just my 2 cents.
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Old December 9th, 2015, 01:42 PM   #17
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Re: Difficult Bride + Discs Not Working

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Originally Posted by Robert Benda View Post
Its very possible to be both right and make the customer happy.

Most people are perfectly reasonable when a truthful explanation (NOT an excuse) is offered. This situation is a perfect example.
I explained to this particular bride that the discs I sent her were of the highest quality, the same discs I use for all of my weddings, and that because they are working on one of the players they tried, proves that they are 100% fine, and that it's simply a compatibility issue with their own player, insinuating (but not stating) that their player is no doubt ancient or/and some cheap brand.

Her response was "our player is of superior quality".

I'm going to ship her out single-layer Verbatim discs and hope for the best.
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Old December 9th, 2015, 01:48 PM   #18
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Re: Difficult Bride + Discs Not Working

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Also, if the player is at fault and you send other discs that don't work it makes you look bad
I did not think of it in this way. I film about 40 weddings a year, using the same Verbatim dual-layer discs, and am NEVER told of any problems, and no doubt these discs are being played on a variety of different players. So when I heard of this problem I immediately thought it had to be a bad batch of discs, and so burned a new set, tested them on my own player (perfect) and shipped.

It was then in a subsequent email she informed me that they still weren't working -

- on her player, but on her sister's they were fine. That's when the penny dropped and I realised the problem was definitely on their end. Unfortunately, as you suggest, the damage may already have been done with regards to my rep.
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Old December 9th, 2015, 01:50 PM   #19
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Re: Difficult Bride + Discs Not Working

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Harper View Post
Bob, my brides, when they see their discs work on other players, so far each one has realized without being told that they need a new player. I haven't yet been cursed with a customer so silly that they blamed my discs when clearly the player was the issue.

Here's how it has worked for me. They call and say discs don't play properly. I ask them to try them on another player, and I ask them if they're player is old, and it's always yes, it's old. They let me know later that yes, indeed, the discs played on another player and they are going to go get a newer player, because they realize their player is old and probably outdated.

They are invariably nice about it, at least my customers have been.

Also, if the player is at fault and you send other discs that don't work, it makes you look really bad, because you've taken responsibility for the problem. If your second batch doesn't work, then your customer will blame you and it makes you look incompetent. I know because early on in my career that is what I did. Then they really got mad. If they had got a new player the problem would have been solved instead of me buying a new type of disc, wasting my time and theirs.

There is a difference between being helpful and taking responsibility for something I cannot fix. Just my 2 cents.
So then why do all their DVDs of Oceans 11, Pulp Fiction, Apocolypse Now, and Fight Club work..... but not their wedding video you made for them? Clearly, their DVD player works fine. It's the DVD you supplied for them which doesn't work.

Apparently there's 2 sides to this, and this forum so far seems to be a bit of a split down the middle. I'm a bit surprised tbh, that anyone would just leave it at 'oh no, that's you're DVD player that's the problem' when all you need to do is burn a more simple version of a DVD.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Harper View Post
There is a difference between being helpful and taking responsibility for something I cannot fix. Just my 2 cents.
But can't you fix it by burning a proper DVD for them?? That's like a mechanic only using 15W40 motor oil or whatever that's meant for a pickup truck and when your little Nissan has problems with it he says "Oh no, the oils fine. It's your CAR which is the problem."
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Old December 9th, 2015, 02:02 PM   #20
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Re: Difficult Bride + Discs Not Working

I just encountered a similar situation with a client who is using an Xbox as their DVD player. The DVDs worked fine on their family's other DVD players but not on the Xbox. Will try another burn on a different brand of disks but not sure where to go if that doesn't work.
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Old December 9th, 2015, 03:12 PM   #21
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Re: Difficult Bride + Discs Not Working

Hollywood movie DVDs are pressed from a glass master. The "pits" are actually molded into the material.

When we burn DVDs, the pits are instead etched into a dye layer with the laser. Quite a different process and results, different material substrate used in the media, so that is why recordable DVD will exhibit playback compatibility issues more than store-bought movies (assuming no authoring issues of course, which is another issue entirely).

I started burning DVDs around the year 2000 and compatibility was very hit and miss back then, and got gradually better over the years with newer players and for the last several years, I have practically zero issues with customer playback of 4.7GB DVD-R discs. I never use DL media, but anecdotal evidence suggests that not all players like DL media, while single-layer media works pretty universally (again, assuming proper authoring and high-quality media).

Thanks
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Old December 9th, 2015, 03:46 PM   #22
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Re: Difficult Bride + Discs Not Working

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Originally Posted by Jeff Pulera View Post
I never use DL media, but anecdotal evidence suggests that not all players like DL media, while single-layer media works pretty universally.
Thanks
I'm the same, I have never used DL discs for this reason, I know other user don't seem to have any problems with DL discs, its just the way I do it :)

I would put her wedding on two or three different brands of -r DVD, Taiyo Yuden, Ritek or Virbatim.
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Old December 9th, 2015, 03:46 PM   #23
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Re: Difficult Bride + Discs Not Working

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Originally Posted by Art Varga View Post
I just encountered a similar situation with a client who is using an Xbox as their DVD player. The DVDs worked fine on their family's other DVD players but not on the Xbox. Will try another burn on a different brand of disks but not sure where to go if that doesn't work.
I'd agree XBOX's are a bit annoying to deal with, and a bit of an exception in.that I wouldn't say 'It's their own fault'..... but it's close. On the flip side I think using Dual Layer DVD's is asking for this to occur eventually over time, so you need to have a backup plan.
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Old December 9th, 2015, 03:49 PM   #24
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Re: Difficult Bride + Discs Not Working

Further to what Jeff is saying, the reason why the commercially replicated DVDs will perform better is that their aluminium substrate has the best possible reflectivity for the 'non-hole data bits'.

Writeable discs are not as good, and in fact the DVD drives even have internal calibration info for the characteristics of each type of blank that may possibly be used. Got an older burner that suddenly doesn't know what to do with your usual DVD blanks or any others? It can be that the current writeable discs (and their formulation) on the market are newer than the internal library on the burner.

Similarly, if the laser diode in a DVD player mechanism is stating to wear and age, its output strength will suffer. This in turn will mean that it has a harder time recognising the data that is on the written/manufactured disc because the level of reflectivity will not be as great.

[Apparently the cheaper optical drive mechanisms have a plastic lens on the laser instead of a glass lens. The downside of this plastic lens is that it won't keep its perfect transparency forever and thus diminishes the life of the hardware.]

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Old December 9th, 2015, 04:28 PM   #25
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Re: Difficult Bride + Discs Not Working

Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Varga View Post
I just encountered a similar situation with a client who is using an Xbox as their DVD player. The DVDs worked fine on their family's other DVD players but not on the Xbox. Will try another burn on a different brand of disks but not sure where to go if that doesn't work.
If you delivered a dvd-r I would try a dvd+r or the other way round depending on what you delivered, that might do the trick.
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Old December 9th, 2015, 04:39 PM   #26
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Re: Difficult Bride + Discs Not Working

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So then why do all their DVDs of Oceans 11, Pulp Fiction, Apocolypse Now, and Fight Club work..... but not their wedding video you made for them? Clearly, their DVD player works fine. It's the DVD you supplied for them which doesn't work.
I wouldn't be so sure that would be the case, I got a brandnew purchased blu-ray disc from the movie "2012" that refuses to play on my blu-ray player as it also stutters and locks up, it allready was causing problems when it came out of it's packaging. I also got a expensive first gen stand alone blu-ray player that skips and stutters all they way true my dvd and blu-ray collecion, it worked ok for a long time but then suddenly started to act up, it was out of warranty so I had to retire it.

I also run into clients that tell me they do have playback issues with purchased dvd's on their old dvd player, eventhough my wedding film does play on their dvdplayer, but they know if my dvd would give problems they are better off just buying a new player. Many people have old and cheap dvd players which are hardly used, in teh past I often delivered my dvd's to my clients and many times they had to look for the remote because it was that long ago they used the player. A good dvd, even when pressed, does not guarantee it will play without issues on these often old players that have issues especially if you have a too high bitrate dvd or when you use a dual layer dvd.

The reason why people don't invest in new dvd players anymore is because these days you can just rent movies true their tv and just stream them, all dvd rental places where I live are gone as they had to close their doors.
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Old December 9th, 2015, 05:12 PM   #27
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Re: Difficult Bride + Discs Not Working

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Originally Posted by Noa Put View Post
I wouldn't be so sure that would be the case, I got a brandnew purchased blu-ray disc from the movie "2012" that refuses to play on my blu-ray player as it also stutters and locks up, it allready was causing problems when it came out of it's packaging. I also got a expensive first gen stand alone blu-ray player that skips and stutters all they way true my dvd and blu-ray collecion, it worked ok for a long time but then suddenly started to act up, it was out of warranty so I had to retire it.
I was more playing devils advocate or trying to show the customers side of things. Technically, yes there's differences etc.... but imho to tell a customer 'Oh, you're DVD player is probably old & outdated' they'd likely respond with 'It's fine' or 'I watch Netflix DVDs all the time' or whatever..... even claiming "our player is of superior quality" when it's probably about 7 years old. Anyway, again I was just trying to see it (and show it) from the customers side.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Benda View Post
When I was being trained to answer phones for Amazon, the trainer had some silly acronym for when a customer tells you their problem. Step #1 was 'apologize.' I immediately asked, 'What if its not our fault?'

Never accept responsibility for a mistake when you didn't make it.
That reminds me of this scene from The British Office.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-wf...utu.be&t=2m34s
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Old December 9th, 2015, 07:02 PM   #28
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Re: Difficult Bride + Discs Not Working

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Originally Posted by Bob Drummond View Post
Especially when it is almost a certainty that by just burning a different brand or two it would solve the problem.
+1 to Bob's suggestion. Years ago I had a job the required 5-7000 disc runs. Unfortunately couldn't do glass mastering as it was like 175 of one, 82 of another, 155 of another etc etc from a wide range of titles so they had to be burnt. As was expected with that many burns some would come back and in 99% of cases the problem was fixed by supplying a burn on a different brand of disc. In one particular case with an irate client we sent them a disc and a brand new $39 DVD player from an ALDI store just to get them off our back. Aussies, Brits and Europeans will know ALDI. Never heard back from that particular client so I guess it must have worked.

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Old December 10th, 2015, 02:40 AM   #29
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Re: Difficult Bride + Discs Not Working

Quote:
Originally Posted by Noa Put View Post
I wouldn't be so sure that would be the case, I got a brandnew purchased blu-ray disc from the movie "2012" that refuses to play on my blu-ray player as it also stutters and locks up, it allready was causing problems when it came out of it's packaging. I also got a expensive first gen stand alone blu-ray player that skips and stutters all they way true my dvd and blu-ray collecion, it worked ok for a long time but then suddenly started to act up, it was out of warranty so I had to retire it.
Noa you are lucky your player refused to play '2012' - it has taste lol!
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Old December 10th, 2015, 02:44 AM   #30
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Re: Difficult Bride + Discs Not Working

Quote:
Originally Posted by Christopher Young View Post
+1 to Bob's suggestion. Years ago I had a job the required 5-7000 disc runs. Unfortunately couldn't do glass mastering as it was like 175 of one, 82 of another, 155 of another etc etc from a wide range of titles so they had to be burnt. As was expected with that many burns some would come back and in 99% of cases the problem was fixed by supplying a burn on a different brand of disc. In one particular case with an irate client we sent them a disc and a brand new $39 DVD player from an ALDI store just to get them off our back. Aussies, Brits and Europeans will know ALDI. Never heard back from that particular client so I guess it must have worked.

Chris Young
CYV Productions
Sydney
Back in the day I had a Pioneer DVD player costing £hundreds. It would not play any recordable DVDs, recordable CDs and only Region 2 DVDs. Along came Aldi with a £25 region free player that played everything - recordable DVD/CD DivX etc etc...

...I bought one and the Pioneer is in the loft.
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