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Old December 19th, 2015, 03:09 AM   #16
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Re: The sell on value of niche products!

Clive, your mistake was to sell using an auction listing without setting a reserve price.

Noa, basically if a buyer complains about anything (whether it's a valid complaint or not) you had better accept the return as it's less hassle. There are unscrupulous sellers on eBay who don't mention defects but there are also unscrupulous buyers who claim that there are faults & try & negotiate a partial refund with the threat of leaving bad feedback if you don't comply. Buyers have to return items at their own expense so you don't really end up out of pocket by accepting a refund.
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Old December 19th, 2015, 03:20 AM   #17
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Re: The sell on value of niche products!

The problem I see is getting a camera back that the buyer may have damaged and you are stuck with a malfunctioning camera, try to proof who's fault that would be. I personally would not accept a camera back if a buyer would complain about a defect that was mentioned during the sale.
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Old December 19th, 2015, 04:15 AM   #18
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Re: The sell on value of niche products!

Originally Posted by Clive McLaughlin View Post

But... a development - the buyer said the screen is wobbly! (I never thought it was a defect to be honest). He has asked for a return.
I said 'Are you sure? You bought this for 196, when they are going used on Amazon for 530'.
But he said he wanted to return it.

He got no arguments from me!
Maybe he's seen the magic eyeball moving around and think's that it's a fault?

Regarding ebay - i simply put things on with a starting price which is the minimum i'll take for the item - normally works for me - putting a reserve on costs an extra fee

Last edited by Peter Rush; December 19th, 2015 at 07:08 AM.
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Old December 19th, 2015, 11:55 AM   #19
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Re: The sell on value of niche products!

I'm not sure If my screen is defective or not. I have two of them and never felt that one's screen was any worse than the others. Will check when it comes back.

I didn't argue because for the price of postage I get a second chance of selling my camera at a price it's worth.

The guy obviously doesn't care about video quality otherwise he'd have realised 196 is a bargain even if the screen is defective...
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Old December 19th, 2015, 11:02 PM   #20
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Re: The sell on value of niche products!

Clive, today's ebay, as you've found out, is NOT the way ebay used to be... unless you sell regularly, you probably don't know where and how it's changed, and there's a LOT of "bad advice" out there on "how to sell". Not being harsh, just factual. Worse yet, a lot of the buying is now coming from mobile, and that interface creates a whole other set of challenges....

Your first post you weren't getting activity and looked like it was going to go cheap, second round it DID go cheap... As I recall your title probably wasn't getting good results with best match search (just getting the title right is a dark art, and makes a HUGE difference in whether you even get seen at all). Your pricing approach was a recipe for disaster...

Used to be you could put up a listing with a terrible title, bad pictures and a lousy description, and get a dang bidding war in the last 15 seconds that would leave you shaking your head with how much you got... NOT on "todays ebay", you have to get a lot of things optimized, count on little activity, and be prepared to work for your $$... or cry after your auction ends. Ebay today is NOT for novices or the inexperienced, you can "lose your shirt", or at least paying to give it away. But if you do it right, it's still the best game in town... IF you do it right...

The approaches I use have been widely used and vetted by other successful sellers who have survived the many changes on ebay, and yes, sometimes you end up sitting on something for a few weeks until a serious buyer comes along, but you also don't end up crying as you wrap something, or worse yet, as you're discovering (same as I described earlier), having an inexperienced buyer who has NO IDEA what they are buying (they don't care that they got it for a song... they don't even know what it is they bought!!), and will come back to complain and nick your further....

You've actually gotten "lucky" - these screens NORMALLY have some play in them built into the hinge (otherwise they'd snap , I reckon), although I've seen a FEW where the screws get loose and they have more than just "spring" in them. I'll guess yours is just springy, which you'll be able to see when it comes back. IF when it gets back you feel it's an issue (when checked against your other cameras as a good "test"), just mention it in the listing. I've seen production variances, and I mention them, describing them as just that, and mentioning how I feel they might be seen as a problem... I've had very few returns.

When you relist, take time and get the title right (if you want to post the old listing #, I'll be happy to give it a quick look and make suggestions). For pricing, IF you use the auction format, don't start low, unless you want to sell low, I prefer a starting price no lower than the minimum you'll take rather than a reserve (a reserve often keeps bidders away, as they can "win" the bidding, but come up empty with reserve not met, wasting time).

I'll again suggest you use the Buy It Now with offer, use their automatic relist function once the listing is up, and you can adjust your price if you aren't getting hits and watchers, using the "revise" function.

Try to find a time when people will be able to bid (but don't COUNT on any 'bidding wars", they don't happen often). I personally try to use a sniping program so I don't forget, but yep, sometimes I forget and don't set the snipe... People have a LOT of distractions... that's another reason not to tie yourself to an "ending time" - BIN/offer ends when you and a buyer agree on a price, anytime, day or night!

You've been given a rare "second chance" (and I don't mean you sell it to the second bidder using that mostly useless ebay function!). Take advice others have given on how to compare SOLDS and ones that don't end up selling (keep in mind that even among SOLD listings, you could have HUGE variances in the ending price depending on condition and accessories and so on - it's worse on "thin market" niche items), and we'll all cross our fingers toes and eyes that you get a good result this time!!!

Be sure to cancel the first sale and refund from the original PayPal transaction so you don't end up paying fees.

Last edited by Dave Blackhurst; December 19th, 2015 at 11:15 PM. Reason: correct sloppy schpelling mistakes
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Old December 19th, 2015, 11:37 PM   #21
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Re: The sell on value of niche products!

Just looked up your original post....

Here's a couple suggestions on your title:

Original: Sony CX730 Camcorder Steadyshot

You've got a lot more characters available, USE THEM. Around here we know what a CX730 is, even if we're from the states, but you need to get the "sizzle" in the title for ebay...

Use the whole model # (and if possible, link to the ebay catalog IF it's in there and reasonably correct, which it may or may not be) so... HDR-CX730. If the ebay catalog is, as so often happens wrong or nonexistent, take the time to create an entry - they've somehow baked in all the variables into the search algorithms and those that might present "similar items" should someone be searching for a "HD CAMCORDER" or "Video Cam". I personally hate "the Catalog", but you need all the help you can get to show up in their search algorithms!

SAY "FULL HD 1080/60p" in the title, BOSS Steadyshot, EXTRAS if you've included any, EXCELLENT, or XLNT COND if you've got spare characters.

Think like a total noob, and try to figure out what search terms you might use if you were trying to find a good family video camera. Same goes for the description - sell the sizzle... relatively large sensor, good in low light, BOSS steadyshot makes your handheld video look super stable instead of wobbly, clear LCD and viewfinder, and so on...

Reshoot your pictures, you can't even tell the camera has a viewfinder the way they are shot (cut off in 3rd pic). You're given 12 pix, USE THEM, gives buyers more confidence when they can see it's in beautiful condition! I typically shoot close ups from all angles - top bottom, sides, front and back. Think like you were picking this up in a store, what would you look at as you examined it?

I can see what you're selling, and honestly I'd be the guy that would pick you off on the cheap and resell for double... because your title, description and pictures are coming up short. I look for auctions and BIN like this all the time... I'm letting you in on some "inside secrets"...

Hope you can get a better result this go round!
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Old December 19th, 2015, 11:49 PM   #22
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Re: The sell on value of niche products!

Originally Posted by Clive McLaughlin View Post
The guy obviously doesn't care about video quality otherwise he'd have realised 196 is a bargain even if the screen is defective...
I will take a different tack than everyone else - keep in mind I have done zero research here, and I know nothing about what you're trying to sell - but it's been my experience that non-mis-spelled listings that don't have other fatal flaws (no photos, weird Nigerian phrasing) pretty much sell for market price. The tips you have received here are excellent, from using the rest of your title space ("HD Camcorder", etc) and start times (the obvious suggestion is Sunday night), but my experience is that can affect your end price in the ballpark of 10%. There is also 10% attributable to luck (bidding war, etc).

If you are hoping to get 500 this time even though you got screwed with 196 last time, be prepared to get screwed again. With all the prep here, you might get 225 or MAYBE 250, but IMHO stuff on eBay sells for market price.
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Old December 20th, 2015, 10:20 PM   #23
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Re: The sell on value of niche products!

Market price is what someone will pay... which can vary widely. Ebay says they are putting you out there in a wider market... but in reality you are being "hidden" behind a LOT of variables, especially their wack search algorithms, which are likely highly flawed - no one knows, because they aren't sharing their search methods... all I can say is that they aren't "good"... and you MUST use every advantage you can or you'll come up with a lousy result.

I accidentally put in ONE wrong letter in a model #, wondered for two relists why it wasn't getting ANY hits or interest... when I finally noticed my error (head pounding desk), I fixed it, and shortly thereafter got a decent offer and sale... it can be THAT silly an error, and if it had been a .99 auction list, I might have given away a $600 sale for around a buck... fortunately, with BIN/ofr. I didn't "pay" for my clumsy error!

As I'm in the US, a search for a "CX730" doesn't show any sales... UK/EU model after all... HOWEVER, the US equivalent model is a CX760, one listed at just under $800, solds at ~ $600 and $700, with one oddball that looks like a scam lisiting from CZ republic at $250-ish.... PJ760 (same model + projector), just under $500 up to $750 ish...

Converting $ to pounds, that's a "low" of about 100 pounds over the "market price" with the way it was listed, up to potentially nearly 300 pounds... that's a "heavy" difference!

If it were 50, I'd call it "seasonal" variation or somesuch, but this is why I'm giving Clive such a "hard time" (really not, trying to HELP... but anyway). He shouldn't get snookered just because ebay is a mysterious hot mess! He asked for "help", from what I could tell, he's gotten some excellent advice (worth more than "free" anyway!).

I've rounded, but this is a decent "eyeballing" of the "market"... that doesn't mean you can't find well "out of range" sales like Clives'! I pick stuff up for WAY less than "market" quite often, I figure the person on the other end is glad to get a quick sale from someone who actually PAYS, and if there are minor flaws... if the price was right, I don't worry about it! I'd fix a "wobbly screen", use the camera, and resell it after I didn't need it, probably for a profit! I will say I've been "closing out" HD cameras from my collection, as 4K has stolen the fire for me, but I still get decent $$ (though not what I "wish") for the ones I sell...

FWIW, ebay's screwed up even the way the categories are displayed, so it's hard to even narrow down a "comp" search... sometimes I just am amazed at how NOT functional ebay has become since they put in the current programming team... the old one was bad enough (all I'll say is when they have to call a member to track and kill 3 major mission critical bugs... I'm not impressed, and that was the OLD team).

Here's hoping Clive will get his beastie back the way it went out, and with all the "free" advice will get a result to cheer about, and he can buy a few virtual beers for the crew!
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