Unique Wedding shoots to a Niche market at DVinfo.net

Go Back   DV Info Net > Special Interest Areas > Wedding / Event Videography Techniques

Wedding / Event Videography Techniques
Shooting non-repeatable events: weddings, recitals, plays, performances...


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old January 25th, 2016, 07:15 AM   #1
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 8,222
Unique Wedding shoots to a Niche market

Hi Guys

With the massive influx of cheap cameras and hundreds of weekend warriors intent on doing $199.00 wedding packages including the iPhone. iPad and action cam availability now, do you think that it's getting harder to try and compete with all these negative factors when trying to offer a traditional wedding video.

A niche market that bypasses the conventional wedding coverage and is beyond the scope of the weekend warrior I feel could create a new and lucrative opportunity for us wedding professionals still trying to work for a living and not beer money.

Has anyone thought of offering different scenarios that brides would go for that are unique, entertaining and not something that the part timer would attempt or even think of?? Things like shooting a Marryoke style session with the bridal party, pre or post wedding interviews or similar that one could be creative and then leave the boring traditional coverage to the monkey's that want to work for peanuts

Is the time approaching when we have to start thinking about moving away from the conventional as phones and cheap cameras start to do it as well as we can???

This guy in Miami is quite inspirational in his approach and it moves away from the traditional and boring wedding video format nicely.

Chris Harding is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 25th, 2016, 09:02 AM   #2
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Belgium
Posts: 9,064
Re: Unique Wedding shoots to a Niche market

I see the competition offering extra's to get noticed like: drone footage, chatbox (unmanned videocamerabox), interviews at reception, marryoke, same day edit, save the date etc while I am planning to go the total opposite direction towards boring traditional coverage again :)

Less is more and if you focus on the details and emotion that's all the general bride really cares about, I don't know if you have seen fiore films, just look her up by name, from what I have seen she doesn't use a slider, steadicam or any other tool, just 5diii's with fast primes to get a heavy stylized dreamy look, great compositions, good audio, nice color, spot on focus and exposure and an eye for detail. Everything looks like it has been shot on tripod, all very stable with very little to no movement except to create transitions that are further enhanced in post.

It's like dining in a 3 star restaurant, they don't have 75 menus on the card like some bistro's have and what they serve has been cut back to the essentials but selected and prepared with care and passion. You could also say that everyone can buy the same food these days and everyone has access to a kitchen but that doesn't make everyone a 3 star chef.

I don't worry about weekend worriers selling at a low price, their audience will never choose me anyway, they just want to have it cheap, I also don't worry about Iphone 6 users shooting 4K while I mainly shoot and deliver in HD, they never will have the same point of view I will have.

I decided, mainly because of my bad back, to go back to the basics, to say it in Alejandro Calore's words: one man, one camera, one point of view :) meaning I want to go back to just one camera, a absolute minimum amount of gear and focus on detail and emotion. Any bride that wants to have a drone fly over their venue or wants to sing a marryoke song on their wedding can choose out of these many others bistro restaurants, I will just go ahead and try to get my first Michelin star. :D
Noa Put is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 25th, 2016, 10:42 AM   #3
Trustee
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Crookston, MN
Posts: 1,353
Re: Unique Wedding shoots to a Niche market

I'm with you Noa, Though I have done family interviews, I've never built it into their main wedding video. I've done it as a separate family memento. Getting grandma talking about how she and grandpa met, for instance. This example video appears to be doing something similar to what some DJ's call 'the love story.' It was kind of a thing with high end U.S. DJs around 2005-2010.

I like my drone, my slider, or even doing a landscape timelapse, but I certainly don't consider them essential. If I use them, for me, they're generally good for 1-4 shots. But I can get great energy by going handheld, too, as I shoot through out the day, and more spontaneous, casual smiles/laughs/affection. And, for the drone, most of the locations I work aren't exactly photogenic.

What I really want to work on is my little unnoticed, but still affecting elements, like transitions. Lately I've been watching these videos, trying to absorb it and apply it to weddings. Transitions, filming groups, Spielberg one'ers, etc.

Robert Benda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 25th, 2016, 10:54 AM   #4
Trustee
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Romsey, UK
Posts: 1,105
Re: Unique Wedding shoots to a Niche market

Okay as one who does fit into Noa's Bistro service analogy, I think extras do have their place and aren't just marketing tools. On the contrary they add variety to Wedding filming. I personally find Marryoke's to be enjoyable and fun to do and a welcome change to some of the stuffy Weddings I've filmed.
As for Fiore films, their Wedding videos are clearly more arthouse in style and benefit from 2 people filming. Its a style not to everyones taste and not sustainable over a much longer edit that many clients prefer.
I can understand Noa's reasons for scaling back, but refute the idea that those who don't are not favouring emotion and detail in their filming. What drives the emotion in the fiore films videos I saw were the voice overs; the rest were just photo sessions in motion, nicely colour graded. They were definitely well filmed I agree.

Like Noa, I'm not sure we need be too concerned with weekend warriors. Its hardly a recent phase. I was effectively one 10 years ago, albeit for 1 Wedding only. Since establishing my Business, I've seen many weekend warriors come and go. They don't stay long. There's greater threat I feel from Photographers running a joint Video service. Especially as their profession is more threatened by weekend warriors than ours.

Its important to be competitive, but that can be less down to extras and more to quality of videos and excellent marketing. Extras for me are a chance to get more money from my clients, but they are not why I'm booked. Its usually down to recommendations and my style of filming that gets couples attention.

Incidentally I had a booking for the 2nd January this year after the previous Videographer pulled out. A weekend warrior charging a small fee, but so small, it was easy to walk away from. Hopefully there are enough couples out there who are aware of the risks of going too cheap.
Steve Burkett is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 25th, 2016, 11:14 AM   #5
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Belgium
Posts: 9,064
Re: Unique Wedding shoots to a Niche market

Quote:
Okay as one who does fit into Noa's Bistro service analogy
I hope no-one gets offended by what I said, I too have been a part of a "bistro" group the past years trying new things, offering save the date, thinking about doing same day edit, dreaming about maybe one day do a marryoke because it looks so cool, doing interviews and offering a chatbox. Then adding steadicam, slider, and who knows what until my bad back forced me to rethink my strategy and having to take a step back.

Sometimes it's good to look at your way of working from a distance and if it's really necessary to do and buy all those things to make a quality wedding film and to get noticed.
Noa Put is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 25th, 2016, 11:52 AM   #6
Trustee
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Romsey, UK
Posts: 1,105
Re: Unique Wedding shoots to a Niche market

Quote:
Originally Posted by Noa Put View Post
I hope no-one gets offended by what I said,

Sometimes it's good to look at your way of working from a distance and if it's really necessary to do and buy all those things to make a quality wedding film and to get noticed.
Certainly not offended. The question is am I buying these things to compete, or to justify my position as a Wedding Videographer, or maybe just buying simply to define my style of shooting. We all have our own style in our videos - both filming and editing and its that which we sell to couples. Fiore films may not need sliders, drones and stabilisers, but they certainly need good primes, the 5D Mark III, quality tripods and software to help create their style of Wedding video. Would they achieve their look with a GH4 and 12-35 lens, or even say a Sony camcorder? Others will use sliders, drones and stabilisers in the same way - to create the look they're after.

You certainly don't need all of the above to make a good Wedding video, but if you want to stand out in a competing market, there has to be something about your videos to merit interest, even if its good editing and an eye for detail. Production value raises us above the amateur, but that value comes in many forms.
Steve Burkett is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 25th, 2016, 01:35 PM   #7
Major Player
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Philly, PA
Posts: 788
Re: Unique Wedding shoots to a Niche market

Realistically, I don't think you can give too much for $199?! Or even a little more. Factor in 20 minutes prep before & after Ceremony it's close to 2 hours just to shoot that. Most don't immediately segue into cocktail hour, and bridal prep is typically at a different location (Brides house, Salon etc).

Sure there may be a unique, ecclectic wedding where it works, bridal prep & reception at same location, very short overall wedding & shorter time I'm there (3 hours) and the couple just wants a quick, quirky highlight video, sure myb I'd accept it.

However for $200 figure that you'll be opening yourself up for changes, re-edits, "can we also have the speeches, 1st dances, parent dances etc in full". Suddenly it stretches into a much bigger project, one in which you're not turning much of a profit at all. I'd accept on a rare case by case basis, and if I got a really good vibe from the customer and they seemed to grasp the 'What I give them is what they get' concept.

Otherwise, people shooting $199 weddings can continue on with them imho. I can't imagine they won't tire of it quickly.
David Barnett is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 25th, 2016, 01:40 PM   #8
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Belgium
Posts: 9,064
Re: Unique Wedding shoots to a Niche market

I think that once you start fearing wedding guests Iphones and weekend warriors that often means your own work is not good or special enough to separate yourself. I also mentioned Alejandro Calore who also produces weddingfilms that are not for everyone, yet he, just like Fiore films have managed to create something unique by not following what anyone else is doing and I believe that is one way of getting noticed.
Noa Put is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 26th, 2016, 09:21 AM   #9
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Norwich, Norfolk, UK
Posts: 3,445
Re: Unique Wedding shoots to a Niche market

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Barnett View Post
Realistically, I don't think you can give too much for $199?! Or even a little more. Factor in 20 minutes prep before & after Ceremony it's close to 2 hours just to shoot that. Most don't immediately segue into cocktail hour, and bridal prep is typically at a different location (Brides house, Salon etc).

Sure there may be a unique, ecclectic wedding where it works, bridal prep & reception at same location, very short overall wedding & shorter time I'm there (3 hours) and the couple just wants a quick, quirky highlight video, sure myb I'd accept it.

However for $200 figure that you'll be opening yourself up for changes, re-edits, "can we also have the speeches, 1st dances, parent dances etc in full". Suddenly it stretches into a much bigger project, one in which you're not turning much of a profit at all. I'd accept on a rare case by case basis, and if I got a really good vibe from the customer and they seemed to grasp the 'What I give them is what they get' concept.

Otherwise, people shooting $199 weddings can continue on with them imho. I can't imagine they won't tire of it quickly.
Nobody other than a Weekend Warrior earning some extra that isn't declared to the taxman could possibly offer a wedding video for For $199/199/199. You couldn't make a living at that price.
Nigel Barker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 26th, 2016, 12:50 PM   #10
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: LIncolnshire, UK
Posts: 2,051
Re: Unique Wedding shoots to a Niche market

Noa, it is interesting to hear that you are going back to basics, Ii have been saying ever since I joined this forum that one man with one camera can make a great wedding video if they have imagination, good technique and understand intimately what their camera can do. Apart from ceremony and speeches, I only use one camera for everything else and only use a second camera for a different fixed angle.

I attended what I consider is always our best wedding show last Sunday and Claire and I were at times overwhelmed with visitors to the stand. There were 650 brides registered as having attended the show and we talked virtually non stop all day. One thing that stood out above all else was that when visitors realised that we produce documentary coverage of their day, there was much more interest from them. There seem to be an increasingly greater number of companies offering lots of gimmicks, but few offering straight forward coverage. In the 2 days since the show, we have had 3 wedding bookings confirmed from it, 5 appointments to view and 2 more bookings confirmed at the show by people who had viewed previously.

Thats a pretty good return already for the 180 GBP it cost and of further interest is that all but one of those bookings and appointments are for our joint video/photography package.

Roger
Roger Gunkel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 26th, 2016, 01:33 PM   #11
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Belgium
Posts: 9,064
Re: Unique Wedding shoots to a Niche market

Quote:
Noa, it is interesting to hear that you are going back to basics
It's not that I want to, I have to, it's either that or to stop completely as I originally planned a year back due to continuous backproblems. Against the odds I managed to survive a very busy wedding season last year but it has not been a joyride, dragging all my gear with me, running around like an idiot to set up all my camera's and audio gear in time, making sure I got all my eye candy shots with particularly my steadicam has taken it's toll. So this year only a handful of weddings and I want to make it a lot easier on myself. I have a wedding in 2 weeks time where I"m going to try out my new way of working for the first time and see how that works out.
Noa Put is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 26th, 2016, 04:15 PM   #12
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: LIncolnshire, UK
Posts: 2,051
Re: Unique Wedding shoots to a Niche market

With your experience Noa, you will be able to work light, fast and mobile, knowing what to expect in a way that amateurs wouldn't. Your shots will be stable and professionalwith absolutely no reason why the finished product wouldn't be very successful. Much more than would be achieved by weekend warriors with little or no experience.

Roger
Roger Gunkel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 27th, 2016, 02:59 AM   #13
Trustee
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Romsey, UK
Posts: 1,105
Re: Unique Wedding shoots to a Niche market

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Gunkel View Post
There seem to be an increasingly greater number of companies offering lots of gimmicks, but few offering straight forward coverage.
Did it not occur that other Videographers at this Wedding fayre saw your 3D and Photography options as gimmicks too. In fact your business model I'd say is exactly as Chris suggested, adding extras to video coverage to help stand out from the competition.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Noa Put View Post
I want to go back to just one camera, a absolute minimum amount of gear and focus on detail and emotion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Gunkel View Post
that one man with one camera can make a great wedding video if they have imagination, good technique and understand intimately what their camera can do.
There is it seems some romantic notion in going back to basics; ignoring the fact that the basic approach is arguably what contributed towards giving Wedding Videos a bad name, what is really being talked about is working with less tools. So I forget my slider at a Wedding and my gimbal goes tits up; do I say, no matter I shall take this chance to focus on emotion and detail. No, I film just as I did the Wedding before, focusing on emotion and detail, just without the use of a slider or a gimbal. So more shots on a tripod and monopod - perhaps less motion but the content is the same.

If I do film with 1 camera and I have done so for Marryoke only options as a Bonus video, the video becomes less a documentary edit and more shortform in structure. Sustaining single camera for longform requires more than imagination and technique. I'll concede an engaging video can be made that will please some couples, but I have secured enough bookings down to my multi camera setup to realise that this is one thing couples do pick up on and notice.

I am sure Noa will do very well with single camera and with his experience, arguably the greatest asset to any Videographer, will deliver videos that will knock spots off weekend warriors armed with multi cameras and the latest tools. However the loss of extra cameras will still be keenly felt. You can dress up limitations in all manner of ways, but when someone walks in front of your camera at a key moment, that extra camera will be surely missed.

Multi camera coverage is a skill like any other; some Videographers apply it better than others. When used to its fullest potential, it will deliver results far in excess of 1 camera coverage, no matter who the operator is.
Steve Burkett is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 27th, 2016, 03:07 AM   #14
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Belgium
Posts: 9,064
Re: Unique Wedding shoots to a Niche market

Where I live there are also plenty weekend warriors but they don't charge low, they ask the same as the established videoshooters, the biggest difference between their and my website is they try to sell by lots of talk about their gear and what they do different compared to the "other" videographer and they call themselves cinematographers while I mainly put the focus on my work. I only have to take one look at their trailers to see they talk the talk but don't walk the walk :)

They usually also sell about any anything related to weddings like drone footage, chatbox, same day edit etc and they often are with 2 which I see more as a "2 friends sit at a bar and say, lets shoot weddings together" kind of relationship where one of the 2 never saw a camera but only sees it as extra beer money, there is just no passion for the work and you see that inexperience back in their trailers.

I"m not sure but I think it was Chris (correct me pls if I"m wrong!) who was not so into creating trailers as he saw it more as a way to show off but I firmly believe they are the ONLY thing that can separate the inexperienced 'I"m only in it for the beermoney" weekend warrior from the passionate "I need to make a living from it" professional. When new clients who have not heard of you before browse the internet and end up on your website, they will judge you on what they see there, if your work looks no different then the weekend warriors, you are basically scr*wed because they will just pick the cheapest or the one that can sell themselves better using expensive words.

I have had trailers that took me at least 2 full days to make until I felt it was right, like that American wedding (http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/wedding-...ing-ghent.html) while some might find that a waste of time it's clips like this that can separate me from my competition and particular, weekend warriors.

I now am venturing into a new direction and am as exited as I"m nervous, I'm ditching my main attraction, my steadicam and all my extra camera's, and that is forcing me to rethink how I shoot and I only see limitations to overcome, so that will be fun to see how I am going to cope with that. :)
Noa Put is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 27th, 2016, 06:49 PM   #15
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 8,222
Re: Unique Wedding shoots to a Niche market

Yes Noa ..I think that was me ...however I always do a high light rather than a trailer the only difference being that the length is around 7 minutes compared to a trailer being under 2 minutes ..I figured that my high light does a similar job to a trailer ...people probably bail on either format after watching a minute anyway as they have formed an opinion already by then and will either move on or go to your website.

How would you handle ceremonies on a single camera ... I think I would find filming the bridal entry and then having to switch to the actual ceremony might be tricky?? Would that be tripod based or handheld??

Steve could be quite right Roger? Did you in fact have your 3D setup out on display? Surely that would be a drawcard whether or not people actually booked it. I know I would be curious !!
Chris Harding is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

Professional Video
(800) 833-4801
Portland, OR

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY

Z.G.C.
(973) 335-4460
Mountain Lakes, NJ

Abel Cine Tech
(888) 700-4416
N.Y. NY & L.A. CA

Precision Camera
(800) 677-1023
Austin, TX

DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > Special Interest Areas > Wedding / Event Videography Techniques

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



Google
 

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:10 AM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2017 The Digital Video Information Network