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Shooting non-repeatable events: weddings, recitals, plays, performances...


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Old February 29th, 2016, 12:56 PM   #31
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Re: What matters to you? - Camera Selection

Price
Low Light Ability
Features (XLR, Internal ND Filters)
Prefer fixed lens, tho it seems the market headed towards interchangeable.
Longevity. (If I bought now I would likely look for something 4K, even an starter pkg. In 2009 I bought an HDV tape cam, Z5U, which allowed for the MRC1 CF card adaptor. Extended the cameras life about 3 extra years by shooting to card, just mentally, to me. As hooking up & capturing via firewire was a pain. Gosh that sounds so long ago)

I'll likely need to upgrade my main cam at the end of this year, so yeah I'll be looking. I may look to buy 2 similar mid range cams, I don't like the A-cam B-cam and matching up cameras.
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Old February 29th, 2016, 03:21 PM   #32
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Re: What matters to you? - Camera Selection

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Originally Posted by Matthias Claflin View Post
What's on your want list?
My want list? A 20x zoom fixed lens with F/2.0 constant aperture under $2K. Oh, yes, with XLR inputs :-)
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Old February 29th, 2016, 07:09 PM   #33
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Re: What matters to you? - Camera Selection

Tapeless..... once you go tapeless, you never go back.

Free would be nice, but I'm not sure that's possible.
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Old March 1st, 2016, 05:09 AM   #34
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Re: What matters to you? - Camera Selection

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Originally Posted by Noa Put View Post
I thought you didn't want this to be a "Camera A is better than Camera B" thread yet you just made a extensive list where you think your c100 is a better camera compared to the others, do you want us to make a list why we think our camera is better then, say your c100? I'm a bit confused now.
First I'd like to say that I never said the C100 was the best or rather was any better or more legitimate a choice than any other camera. I simply explained, using a real world example, why I chose a specific camera for the basis of showing my process and why I think all of us have some sort of process for selecting a camera. I used this example only because it has been said repeatedly throughout this thread that "any camera" will do and that isn't true. It also isn't true that there is only one camera for the job. Noa, as I'm sure you know, you are fully capable of using many different cameras on the market to shoot any given wedding. You have the ones you choose and you have your reasons. I started this thread to find out those reasons.

It turns out I can't have a discussion like that on here without people making posts saying "it doesn't matter what gear you use" or saying "whatever gear does the job" but in reality we have a variety of cameras that can do the job. I just wanted to know why you choose the camera you did without bad mouthing any cameras in the process.
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Old March 1st, 2016, 06:30 AM   #35
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Re: What matters to you? - Camera Selection

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I just wanted to know why you choose the camera you did without bad mouthing any cameras in the process.
You mean not bad mouth like this?:
Quote:
-The T3i claims to shoot 1080p but in reality it looks terrible at any resolution higher than 720p
-With the C100 you get the best battery life in the bunch.
-You also get XLR inputs and some manual features you won't see on any of the others.
- I don't like the green twinge I've seen in the Panasonic cameras color and I hate the way the A7 series produces red tones
the C100 is (in my experience) sharper than the GH4 (and at least as good when the 4k is downscaled in post). I would say it matches or beats the sharpness of the A7 series
I mean, you have asked to keep it clean so do you understand why I was confused? I can provide a list why I did buy my jvc over a c100 or where my camera would beat certain functions the c100 doesn't have.

Last edited by Noa Put; March 1st, 2016 at 07:21 AM.
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Old March 1st, 2016, 06:56 AM   #36
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Re: What matters to you? - Camera Selection

[QUOTE=Matthias Claflin;
I started this topic because we all know that when someone asks about a camera suggestion, the first question we all ask is "what are you using it for?" But I want to go beyond that. [/QUOTE]


I have shot a wedding, for free. But I was committed to doing a good job. It was a ton of work. Three cameras, a wireless mic and two portable sound recorders. Editing nightmare. It turned out better than I expected. That was a long time ago and now I'm about ready to try again.

But to your "beyond that" statement, I suggest you think about your typical wedding shoot day and pick out the things that cause you frustration. Then, as it applies to the camera itself, take this into consideration and look for features in a camera that will help eliminate the source of frustration.

For example: with weddings, I'd think low-light performance would be at the top of everyone's list. Trying to eliminate that grain by using a slower shutter speed than you want or in post by applying Neat Video to lots of clips could be a source of frustration. Buying a camera with great low-light performance helps eliminate it.

Some things I look for in a camera: more buttons and switches, less menu-diving, built in ND filters, long battery life, Lanc terminal.

HTH,
Mark
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Old March 1st, 2016, 09:20 AM   #37
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Re: What matters to you? - Camera Selection

Noa, I bad mouthed the T3i. I will admit as much but I didn't bad mouth any other cameras. The T3i is over 5 years old, can anyone blame it for not holding up to newer cameras, or cameras dedicated to video? No. Maybe I shouldn't have said anything at all.

I assume you know that each sensor handles color a little differently and for the most part each brand has a slightly different way of approaching it. Canon has a bit more yellow, Panasonic normally has a bit more green, and I can't say for Sony other than the A7 series has something off in the red side of things. None of these things are "bad mouthing" a camera, but rather pointing out in one aspect that they differ.

Same with battery life. The GH4 and the A7 series by Sony have relatively poor battery life in comparison to a more traditional video camera. This is because they use DSLR style batteries. The A7 series being notorious for lasting an hour or less per battery. The C100 goes for about 3 hours with the standard battery. This is not an opinion. This is a fact and as I believe I accurately presented it as a fact without speaking poorly of the other cameras. I didn't say that the battery life on the other cameras were crap, or terrible, or even bad. For the most part I believe I was objective in what I had to say about the cameras, (once again, the exception being the T3i. I acknowledge that I did indeed bad mouth the picture quality from the T3i.)

As for the GH4, I mentioned that it isn't as sharp as the C100, which it isn't. I never said the GH4 was unacceptably soft. I never said it had poor picture quality, in fact I later stated that it is about as sharp as the C100 when the 4k is downscaled to HD (in post but not in camera).

The C100 is not perfect. I wouldn't use it in every situation. I already stated that it wasn't right for everyone, but it is for me. I'm not here to argue about cameras. I'm not here to argue anything. You seem to want to twist what I've said so far by taking everything out of context as if to continue a pointless argument. I personally don't care what camera you pick, but I'm curious about why. I'm done defending this thread and my intentions.



Mark, thanks for sharing your thoughts.
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Old March 1st, 2016, 09:29 AM   #38
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Re: What matters to you? - Camera Selection

You are not getting the point, you ask us not to make this a "camera a is better then camera b thread" or not to "bad mouth" other models but to me it appears you are the only one that is not "keeping it clean", just saying.
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Old March 1st, 2016, 10:01 AM   #39
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Re: What matters to you? - Camera Selection

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Originally Posted by Matthias Claflin View Post

Same with battery life. The GH4 and the A7 series by Sony have relatively poor battery life in comparison to a more traditional video camera. The C100 goes for about 3 hours with the standard battery. This is not an opinion. This is a fact and as I believe I accurately presented it as a fact without speaking poorly of the other cameras.
My GH2 batteries have been tested by me at 1 hours 55 mins maximum in many situations. The GH4's battery is longer lasting than they are, though I've rarely pushed it to its limits, never recording anything continuous for more than 2 hours. As long as IS on the lens isn't being used, I could feasibly get 2 hours 20 mins. Use the battery grip with dual batteries and you could get 4.5 hours at least.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthias Claflin View Post
As for the GH4, I mentioned that it isn't as sharp as the C100, which it isn't. I never said the GH4 was unacceptably soft. I never said it had poor picture quality, in fact I later stated that it is about as sharp as the C100 when the 4k is downscaled to HD (in post but not in camera).
The C100 uses a 4K sensor which it downconverts to deliver the HD image. Little wonder its sharpness matches the 4K image of the GH4 when similarly downconverted in post. The GH4's internal HD recordings use line skipping I understand, so understandably not as sharp and more prone to moire.

Budget does play a strong factor in choosing cameras. Plus ROI too. If you're buying 4 cameras as I had to, compared to just the 1, that same money has got to be spread more thinly. I like the look of the FS5 and have heard of a few owners of the C100 planning to jump ship to that camera, especially now they've fixed a few of the niggling issues. It's a tempting camera and so far the only camera I would consider if I wished to invest that amount of money on a camera.
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Old March 1st, 2016, 10:16 AM   #40
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Re: What matters to you? - Camera Selection

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The GH4's internal HD recordings use line skipping I understand, so understandably not as sharp and more prone to moire.
I also think it should be compared in another way and would be interesting to see the difference, if any, like on a big 4K tv screen, one shot in 4k on the gh4 and one shot in hd on the c100 to see how both match up.
Also, one bigger advantage of shooting 4k is the cropping ability in post, zoom in 50% on 4k gh4 footage on a 1080p time line and do the same with c100 HD footage, the difference in detail will become very obvious in such a case in favor of the GH4. And anyone saying they don't need 4K for weddings are usually the ones that don't have a 4K camera. As long as you don't have to supply a 4K master the cropping ability advantages you gain give you so much more possibilities in post from one and the same camera angle where you can go from wide to medium close up without ever touching the camera on location, perfect as second unmanned camera.

Also can confirm what batterylife is concerned, don't know where Matthias got that experience that the gh4 has a poor battery life, the gh3/4 are known for it's long batterylife, I never had to use my spare batteries at a wedding on my GH's, they seem to last forever.
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Old March 1st, 2016, 12:31 PM   #41
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Re: What matters to you? - Camera Selection

Question for those who shoot DSLR/Interchangeable lens... Do you have a power zoom lens? (Aren't they typically really expensive). Otherwise, did you adjust you style of shooting and basically do away with it?

TBH, I'm not sure how much I use it, outside of the bridal entrance & 1st dance. But I love having it, like a teddy bear or security blanket, not sure I'd want to shoot without it, or using manual zoom.
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Old March 1st, 2016, 12:38 PM   #42
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Re: What matters to you? - Camera Selection

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Question for those who shoot DSLR/Interchangeable lens... Do you have a power zoom lens?
No I don't own any power zoom and yes I have altered my shooting style to reflect this. With practise, I can pull back a zoom manually, but aside from bridal entrance and the bride/groom exit, I've never missed the zoom option. Plus with 4K you can replicate it in software.
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Old March 1st, 2016, 12:58 PM   #43
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Re: What matters to you? - Camera Selection

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Question for those who shoot DSLR/Interchangeable lens... Do you have a power zoom lens? (Aren't they typically really expensive). Otherwise, did you adjust you style of shooting and basically do away with it?
Panasonic has 2 powerzoom lenses that I know of that can be controlled with the zoomrocker from the jvc gy ls300 but they are quite slow lenses, it is however possible to zoom with any prime lens on that same camera which gives you about double the focal length.

Otherwise I also zoom manually on the lens, I only use the zoom to reframe, 99% of the time I will cut the zoommotion out in post.
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Old March 2nd, 2016, 01:10 AM   #44
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Re: What matters to you? - Camera Selection

Whilst there there is only the best camera you can afford for your needs at any given time...I'll repeat that one of the most important aspects in choosing a C100 over say a GH4 was the dual slot recording. I'd imagine Noa's JVC has the same function. I've had 2 corrupt cards. I'd hate that on a 1 slot camera.
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Old March 2nd, 2016, 01:21 AM   #45
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Re: What matters to you? - Camera Selection

Dual slot recording becomes essential if filming with 1 camera or 1 camera with another as a wide angle backup. As the Panasonic cameras are cheaper and smaller, I film with 4, manning 2 cameras, 1 on wide and 1 on closeup at the front. I've yet to have a case of corrupt card, and that's shooting 50 Weddings a year. If I do, I have 3 other cameras to fill out the edit.
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