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Old May 10th, 2016, 04:01 AM   #1
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Copyright for church service wording?

I've just had a groom relay a message from the vicar asking I have copyright clearance for the service as some of the wording is copyrighted.

I get a PRS mechanical duplication licence for my wedding films that covers the music but I've never been asked to get a licence for the wording - I don't even know if one exists?

According to page 16 of this document, as far as Church of England are concerned copyright has been cleared for the service but I'm sure someone here will know for certain?

https://www.churchofengland.org/media/41098/litcopy.rtf

I need to get back to him asap so any help would be gratefully accepted

Pete

Last edited by Peter Rush; May 10th, 2016 at 05:01 AM.
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Old May 10th, 2016, 04:36 AM   #2
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Re: Copyright for church service?

I can't give you any advice but have to say the UK churches seem to make it very difficult for videographers with idiotic rules and regulations, glad I don't have to deal with that kind of bs where I live.
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Old May 10th, 2016, 05:01 AM   #3
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Re: Copyright for church service?

I had to fill out some copyright form recently too. Wording below:

Quote:
If you plan to have a printed order of service, or you will have your wedding recorded, it is important to adhere to copyright law. This information sheet tells you most of what you may need to know. The professionals who support you in your planning and on the day are experts, and should ensure that you don’t get anything wrong.

Recording the Wedding

If a recording is to be made of any part of a wedding service, it is essential to obtain the permission of the Rector/Vicar and of the minister who is to conduct the service (if that is someone else). It is completely within their discretion whether or not to allow the recording to be made, on a case-by-case basis. When permission is given, we ask you then to complete the attached form to acknowledge your responsibilities, and the signed agreement must be received for the recording to go ahead. This should be done as soon as possible to avoid any last minute hitches, but it should be received before the walk through at the latest.

If recording is permitted, conditions may sometimes be imposed that apply to the particular situation – either in advance, or on the day. The person taking the service always has final authority, but please be reassured that any conditions we make are always designed to ensure that the results of the video are as good as possible, without the recording process being intrusive and off-putting. To avoid last minute decisions, it is helpful if the recordist can attend the walk through so that camera position(s) can be agreed. It also helps if they have talked in advance with the photographer.

If a professional recording firm has been commissioned to record music within a church, they will have the necessary licences required that allow them to make and reproduce recordings. If you have asked a family member or an amateur to make a recording, a licence is still required. Details can be found on this webpage, and application should be made well in advance: Limited Manufacture (LM) licence

It is also essential to obtain the permission of any musicians whose performance is to be recorded. This is the responsibility of the couple and/or recordist, not of the church. Additional fees may be charged by performers. Some may waive any fee, but please be aware that organists often charge up to double their standard fee.

Orders of Service

Our churches have a Church Copyright Licence (CCL) which usually covers everything from copying out hymn and song words for your order of service, to playing recorded music and even making a recording. There may be copyright issues for a few popular pieces of music that are not covered by a CCL. We will advise you if that is the case. Very occasionally, we may need to consult the publisher about whether a particular piece of music can be used.

Obtaining Copyright Permissions and Licences

The person who wishes to make the recording is normally responsible for applying for and obtaining the necessary permissions and licences. However, in the case of a wedding, if the couple/parents commission a professional firm to make the recording, the recording firm is considered to be their agent, and the firm is responsible for ensuring that the necessary permissions are obtained and any conditions are complied with. That is why we ask both the recordist and the person commissioning the recording to sign the notice of permission and to read these notes.

Conditions for Permission to be Granted

We acknowledge that permission has been given for recording equipment to be brought into and used inside the church for the purpose of recording the above service subject to the following conditions:

 Only a single video camera may be used inside the church (unless an additional camera has specifically been agreed) and this must be in position before the entry of the bride/couple.

 During the service the camera(s) must remain in fixed positions and mounted on suitable support(s).

The position(s) must be agreed with the minister who is taking the service.

 Additional lighting may not be used without prior agreement, and may not be turned on or off during the service.

 The signing of the registers may not be recorded.

 The recordist is responsible for all Health and Safety considerations related to the recording.

 This permission extends only to recordist(s) named in this agreement. Other guests may not make recordings in church.

 Guests may bring recording equipment into church as personal effects, but it must remain switched off at all times during the service. This applies equally to video cameras, and to still cameras and smartphones capable of recording video.

 In all matters, the decision of the minister who is taking the service is final.

Legal Considerations

The attention of the couple and recordist is drawn to the following matters:

1. The law of copyright is complex. It is most important that it is recognised that neither the incumbent nor the Parochial Church Council has any authority to give copyright permission for the lawful reproduction or recording of any work literary or musical which is protected by copyright, or to give consent on behalf of any performer or person having an exclusive recording right.

2. Certain “blanket” arrangements have been made to facilitate recordings in church, and it is the responsibility of the recordist and couple to ensure that the relevant licences have been obtained and that their limitations are observed.

3. Copies may be sold to the persons who commissioned the recording, but apart from that no commercial or promotional use may be made by any party without permission.

4. We make no charge for permitting a video recording, and all copyright fees are your responsibility.

Version 2.0 30/06/2014

I have read the whole of this form, and the attached notes. I accept that the incumbent has only given me permission to bring into and to use video recording equipment inside the church subject to the conditions above, and that I am wholly responsible for compliance with them. I acknowledge that the incumbent is not authorised to grant copyright permission or authorise the recording of any material or performance which may be protected by law, and has not done so.

I accept that if these conditions are not adhered to, the recording will not be allowed to proceed, and that in all practical matters the final decision rests with the minister conducting the service.
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Old May 10th, 2016, 05:04 AM   #4
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Re: Copyright for church service?

Just signed three this week Peter best get used to it, its gone crazy in UK with all church rules, stuck behind a pillar Saturday could not move a inch, the vicar told photog he had to stay at the back he was fuming. steve
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Old May 10th, 2016, 05:11 AM   #5
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Re: Copyright for church service?

Yes I've had a few of these to sign off but in this instance the vicar is asking if I (me personally) have obtained a licence to video/audio record the words of the service as opposed to the music but surely they provide me with a form such as this to sign and that covers it - it's not for me to chase around trying to get permission? Surely the church themselves get this CCL licence?

Steve at last weekend's wedding I was allowed at the front but the photographer was told to stay at the back - he too was fuming.
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Old May 10th, 2016, 05:25 AM   #6
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Re: Copyright for church service?

You'd think they would get a CCL! That's not for you to sort out, surely. The above one I quoted state that they do.
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Old May 10th, 2016, 06:19 AM   #7
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Re: Copyright for church service?

I wonder if the church has a copyright to play selected music at their own churches for any event they run. Tell them you need to check theirs before you can record.
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Old May 10th, 2016, 07:09 AM   #8
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Re: Copyright for church service?

I don't know how it is in the U. K., but in the U.S. churches have been sued over violations of copyright. The largest suit I've read of was for $2 million. Generally speaking, in law suits, if you have "deep pockets" you become a "juicy target." Churches, and their insurance companies, have assets to go after.

The document seems pretty reasonable considering today's legal climate. Those of us doing video work aren't usually seen as a juicy target, but sometimes we are. Remember that article a while back about the chickens coming home to roost where the videographer was sued by Sony?

Churches have been sued by record labels too.
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Old May 10th, 2016, 08:17 AM   #9
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Re: Copyright for church service?

Quote:
Churches have been sued by record labels too
What if God wrote the song and angels perform it?

Every weddingceremony I shot has commercial music in it, either supplied by the couple who play it on the church cd system or someone is performing it live. I know SABAM, the Belgian music rights organization requires the church to pay a license but as far as I understand it's a fixed yearly contribution but I don't know the amount, the church charges 250 euro to every couple getting married so they got these costs covered.
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Old May 10th, 2016, 09:00 AM   #10
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Re: Copyright for church service?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Donald McPherson View Post
I wonder if the church has a copyright to play selected music at their own churches for any event they run. Tell them you need to check theirs before you can record.
If the vicar is using canned wording issued by the church, the copyright issue would be his not yours IMHO. I wouldn't necessarily take Donald's approach, but I would tend to agree with Donald in principle.
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Old May 10th, 2016, 12:49 PM   #11
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Re: Copyright for church service?

The problem arises when people introduce their own content into the service - happens at funerals too. A poem, or perhaps a verse from a song, read as a poem. I flew to San Fransisco where a wedding was conducted by the Grooms best friend as officiant, and the rather nice laws over there mean you write your own service. Quite a bit of the content was actually from Les Miserables - just suitable, nice words. Here in the UK, that would have been a real problem, copyright wise.

For the record, I'm actually 100% in favour of the copyright control we have here, despite the fact that I have to do all the releases as part of my job. Why am I in favour? Simple - I also produce music, take photographs and video. All things that I retain the rights to, and sell if I wish. I'm a member of the two copyright organisations, and although my income from them is small, it's still payment for using my material.

Of course it's complicated, but the UK system is actually easier to use - like the Limited Manufacture Licenses, that many other countries don't have.

Now we have an intellectual copyright court that works like the small claims court, it's so easy to claim.
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Old May 18th, 2016, 04:42 AM   #12
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Re: Copyright for church service?

Hi Peter. You need an MCPS licence. These cost around £12 and you need one for each event.

When doing what we do we need 2 licences. The first, the MCPS gives you permission to record any copyright music or verse onto your camera. This includes hymns. Which, despite being so old are somehow still copyright protected and excluded from all copyright law limits.

The PPL licence is what then gives you permission to add dubbed music onto your movies and you need one of these per copy. These are £4 per copy produced and by the sounds of things this is what you already have.

Everything can be bought from the PRS for music site.

We've had to sign one of those documents a few times but no ones ever actually asked to see the bit of paper.

Now some background on why churches do it.

A little while ago a company was setup who was a re-seller for MCPS and PPL licences and they sold a nice and convinenent all in one package for us wedding video folks (they dont exist now). The probelms happend when they sent a leaflet to ALL churches telling them they would be liable for all breaches if they didnt make videographers comply. Thats not true, were the ones who are at fault, not the churches. So a few churches started to police this themselves when in fact the copyright situation is nothing to do with them. We pay our fees, the church gets their slice from the pot.
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