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Old June 8th, 2016, 04:48 PM   #46
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Re: Harsh?

"*I do though frequently wonder why photographers seem to click away endlessly through the speeches when the couple are highly unlikely to want speech photos in their album or hanging on the wall."

I can answer this as a photographer. Clients feel they are getting their money worth based on the number of photos you take and that you are visibly working during all parts of the wedding even if you know the formals and ceremony are the only ones that really matter. Especially if there's no video it's the photographer's job to chronicle the entire day start to finish.
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Old June 8th, 2016, 05:22 PM   #47
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Re: Harsh?

I don't do photo shoots - it's not in any of my packages. I do offer it as an option but I explain to the bride that we are better off filming the final preparations of the room, guests having pre dinner drinks etc. - all the things that are happening while they are off having their photos taken - and 99% of the time they are fine with that.

We seem to have this preoccupation that we need to cover everything the photog does - why?

A wedding is 2 people making a commitment if front of friends and family and then celebrating that commitment. that's what we are there to cover. If there was no photographer would they even have a photo shoot?

the photoshoot has traditionally been the domain of the photog - when I got married it was in a studio - locations shoots weren't even mentioned. Now that the location photo shoot is such a big part of the day, the photog has allowed sufficient time to get the shots he needs - he's not thinking about us. While most of us will be professional and work together - the ones that don't will stand out in his mind and create problems for all of us
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Old June 8th, 2016, 07:30 PM   #48
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Re: Harsh?

Photogs always amuse me when they are taking more pics than they will ever even edit! I have had 2 of them standing either side of my tripod during speeches shooting as fast as the flash could handle it ...During the fairly short speech each must have exposed at least 200 frames. Yep, seems like the more you give the bride the better you are rated. 5000 shots at the reception means you are a killer photographer!
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Old June 8th, 2016, 08:41 PM   #49
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Re: Harsh?

I can understand overshooting a lot of the time. There's been times where I know I have plenty for the edit, but I don't want to appear like I'm slacking off, so I'll just shoot more stuff. Usually if there's 3 hours of dancing left before my scheduled end time. Or if the reception is really slow to get started and I have enough decor + guest shots.
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Old June 8th, 2016, 09:49 PM   #50
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Re: Harsh?

If the bride is ok with it, I agree with those that say let it go!

It's the bride's video, not the videographer nor the photographer's.

I don't even see the issue here. Shoot what you can and move on to the next wedding.
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Old June 9th, 2016, 12:23 AM   #51
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Re: Harsh?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Mailath View Post
We seem to have this preoccupation that we need to cover everything the photog does - why?
That's not the point, you might not find the photoshoot important but others may, the point is that the photographer decides you cannot be a part of the photoshoot which I find unacceptable. The photoshoot, even if it's called like that, is not the exclusive domain of the photographer, a videographer can demand some time for himself as well because the photoshoot is the only time of the day you can have some private time with the couple to do some staged shots that might matter a lot for your style of shooting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Harper
If the bride is ok with it, I agree with those that say let it go!
I'd agree that when you you first meet the couple and the bride asks you if it's ok for you not to join the shoot as she feels uncomfortable having too many people around then that's something you have to respect, but a photog going around your back to either shut you out of the shoot and determine positions at a ceremony and using the bride to get what they want is just unprofessional and here I would have a harder time letting go.
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Old June 9th, 2016, 09:03 AM   #52
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Re: Harsh?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete Cofrancesco View Post
"*I do though frequently wonder why photographers seem to click away endlessly through the speeches when the couple are highly unlikely to want speech photos in their album or hanging on the wall."

I can answer this as a photographer. Clients feel they are getting their money worth based on the number of photos you take and that you are visibly working during all parts of the wedding even if you know the formals and ceremony are the only ones that really matter. Especially if there's no video it's the photographer's job to chronicle the entire day start to finish.
That's an interesting reply Pete and I can understand that. I also find that if I am filming something and the photographer is sitting down taking a break, he will immediately get up and start taking photos and I tend to do the same if the photographer is working. I suppose that both want to be seen giving maximum value and feel a bit guilty if one is working and the other isn't.

Since the majority of our weddings are now combined video and photography, I find it much easier being in total control and taking what I want when I want and always feel more relaxed not having to work round a photographer.

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Old June 9th, 2016, 09:16 AM   #53
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Re: Harsh?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Mailath View Post
I don't do photo shoots - it's not in any of my packages. I do offer it as an option but I explain to the bride that we are better off filming the final preparations of the room, guests having pre dinner drinks etc. - all the things that are happening while they are off having their photos taken - and 99% of the time they are fine with that.

We seem to have this preoccupation that we need to cover everything the photog does - why?

A wedding is 2 people making a commitment if front of friends and family and then celebrating that commitment. that's what we are there to cover. If there was no photographer would they even have a photo shoot?

the photoshoot has traditionally been the domain of the photog - when I got married it was in a studio - locations shoots weren't even mentioned. Now that the location photo shoot is such a big part of the day, the photog has allowed sufficient time to get the shots he needs - he's not thinking about us. While most of us will be professional and work together - the ones that don't will stand out in his mind and create problems for all of us
I don't think it's a preoccupation covering everything the photographer does, it is covering all the basic things that happen during the day. With a modern wedding, romantic shots with just the bride and groom has become a time consuming part of their day and there is absolutely no reason why that should be just the domain of the photographer, any more than any other part of the day. Photography is traditional because it has been around since the mid 1800s, but much of the wedding day carries far more impact now with video and audio than a frozen posed photograph which used to be the only way of capturing a wedding.

Both media styles have an important role to play, but much of what is captured with still photography is stuck in the past based on setting up artificial poses and groups grinning at the camera. As we do both, we are more and more being asked to capture less groups and posed shots and more live action casual stills and video.

Roger
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Old June 9th, 2016, 09:49 AM   #54
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Re: Harsh?

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Originally Posted by Roger Gunkel View Post
I suppose that both want to be seen giving maximum value and feel a bit guilty if one is working and the other isn't.
I only have experienced it once in all my years of shooting when there was a very long reception and I had more then enough close-ups from guests and shot all the details in the venue so I sat down, had a coke and waited. The bride came up to me at a certain point and said, "could you shoot the people that are present here" and I said "no" and explained to her I already did that and that is was of no use to shoot the same thing again and that I was on standby anyway until something happened.

My opinion is that It's not the quantity that matters but the quality, out of 16-17 hours I"m present I only work when I feel it adds something to the film, never to make the couple believe they are getting their moneys worth. I always sit down and wait in the venue when I have all my obligatory shots and wait until something happens that's worth shooting.
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Old June 9th, 2016, 09:57 AM   #55
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Re: Harsh?

I think the Photographer does have some right even to a small degree to restrict or even ask for the Videographer not to be involved in the couples personal photo shoot. However I think in such cases they should make the effort to ensure we have sufficient time with the couple as well. Trouble is those who are of a mind to make such directives are not going to be so generous as to give us that time.

Such restrictions from the Photographer are not the norm however and most I work with are quite happy for me to tag along. It's frustrating that the directive is from the Photographer but backed by the Bride. So it's one to let go. I think Roger said it best that Video isn't a priority for the couple until after the Wedding and frequently we are sidelined because of it.

Until couples take video seriously and to he honest some do, it's our lot to make the best of being low priority in the eyes of the couple. Moments like this will always come up but I take comfort that as Roger says, our videos will be appreciated more in years to come.
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Old June 9th, 2016, 03:40 PM   #56
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Re: Harsh?

Well i've just come back from the rehearsal (needed to attend as it's a Ukranian wedding so not familiar with the service) and the bride remembered and reassured me that i'd get my 15 minutes alone with them after the meal so it's not too bad
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Old June 9th, 2016, 03:52 PM   #57
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Re: Harsh?

Don't forget to send a email to the photographer that your 'Personal Time' videography you have arranged with the couple is private and taking photo's is strictly not allowed.
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Old June 12th, 2016, 02:43 AM   #58
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Re: Harsh?

Well the wedding came and went (a marathon with a service and speeches lasting 1.5 hours each!!!) and it turns out I've worked with the togs before, it was the first year of doing this so about 7 or 8 years ago and it was a civil partnership with 2 guys. When I started to tag along to film the photoshoot one of the togs asked me not to because the 2 guys wanted it private. I assumed at the time that it was maybe because it was 2 guys or something like that (not that it would matter) but I was naive and this was obviously the togs modus operandi. They remembered me too and we got on OK - I got my 10 minutes which (even though it was raining) is all I needed

All's well that ends well although the long service and speeches means my feet ache a little today
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Old June 20th, 2016, 07:23 AM   #59
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Re: Harsh?

i'm glad all went ok, but this is ridiculous, on the day of nobody can tell, or even ask me what to do or not to do, except for my clients, i.e. bride and groom, or their parents, the rest are - 'excuse me? mind your own business.'
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Old June 20th, 2016, 08:01 AM   #60
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Re: Harsh?

Glad it went ok! Still a weird way for them to operate though, if I'm honest!
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