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Old June 14th, 2016, 01:50 AM   #16
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Re: Best shooting technique for hand held video

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Originally Posted by Steve Burkett View Post
I'm sorry you feel that way.
It has nothing to do about "how I feel", it's just common sense to me that a steadycam is no substitute or replacement for handheld shooting, there is a hugh difference in handholding the camera and actually operating it manually in a run and gun situation compared to using it on a steadicam or gimbal where you are mainly controlling the gimbal but not the camera.
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Old June 14th, 2016, 01:59 AM   #17
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Re: Best shooting technique for hand held video

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Originally Posted by Noa Put View Post
It has nothing to do about "how I feel", it's just common sense to me that a steadycam is no substitute or replacement for handheld shooting, there is a hugh difference in handholding the camera and actually operating it manually in a run and gun situation compared to using it on a steadicam or gimbal where you are mainly controlling the gimbal but not the camera.
Actually I was referring to your remark "I can repeat why but it's clear you don't read that part so there is no use discussing this any further." when I apologised that you felt that way and not on your opinion regarding steadicam and handheld. I feel we've entered an impasse. I'm not disputing what you say; we're arguing semantics here. I'm looking at handheld from a different perspective maybe - perhaps approaching from a different mindset. No offence intended.
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Old June 14th, 2016, 02:11 AM   #18
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Re: Best shooting technique for hand held video

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Originally Posted by Chris Harding View Post

Is it really necessary Steve to have clinically perfect non movement footage??
I seem to be digging myself a hole. I'm not refuting handheld, saying its wrong to use it by any means. My GH4 doesn't have 5 axis OIS. So if I didn't use a gimbal, I'd be technically at a disadvantage when compared to your camera and my footage could be shakier because of it. My footage isn't clinically perfect. I just take advantage of the gimbal in the way you take advantage of your 5 axis OIS. Same tech basically or at least same purpose, just different equipment.

Going back to the original question. If using a shoulder rig, to disguise camera wobble you have got to have either the camera image in motion (panning, zooming included) or have the subjects themselves moving. Or both for that matter. Camera wobble only becomes most noticeable when you're trying to hold the camera still on non moving subjects. That is the draw back of shooting handheld. Perhaps a minor one depending on what you shoot. If stable footage is important in such cases, then you need to think about either some form of stabiliser (external or internal) or use a monopod. Though none of these options are handheld, they do allow you more freedom when shooting run n gun than a tripod.
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Old June 14th, 2016, 03:49 AM   #19
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Re: Best shooting technique for hand held video

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I just take advantage of the gimbal in the way you take advantage of your 5 axis OIS.
With the main difference that I"m controlling my camera and you are not, once it's recording you almost can't touch it anymore, see the difference? I am handholding a camera and can adjust every setting on the fly while you can't, you have to deactivate the gimbal, change a setting on your camera, activate the gimbal and start shooting again, while that will work in certain situations it won't in many others.
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Old June 14th, 2016, 04:05 AM   #20
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Re: Best shooting technique for hand held video

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Originally Posted by Noa Put View Post
With the main difference that I"m controlling my camera and you are not, once it's recording you almost can't touch it anymore, see the difference? I am handholding a camera and can adjust every setting on the fly while you can't, you have to deactivate the gimbal, change a setting on your camera, activate the gimbal and start shooting again, while that will work in certain situations it won't in many others.
In that reply you're referring to Noa, I was simply answering Chris' question as to whether I was aiming for clinically perfect shots with my gimbal, and my reply was there not as a comment on our discussions, but merely to suggest the gimbal was working for me in the way the 5 axis OIS was for Chris.

I appreciate that handheld has some advantages over the gimbal, but some disadvantages too. That said, I can adjust focus, I have placed a ND filter on and off, plus made some minor setting changes without turning off the gimbal. I have footage of that if you feel proof is needed. It is true some gimbals go haywire or so I've heard if you dare touch the camera. Perhaps because I have some cable attached to the hotshoe, mine does respond well and I can even turn on the camera once the gimbal is activated if I have forgotten to do so before hand. Tilting the screen is also possible. I have to be careful using the wheels, but basic button presses are possible. I have adjusted ISO on the fly and exposure compensation, switched on and off peaking. Again, without switching off the gimbal. So I have focus control, exposure control, ISO control, peaking control; all without turning off the gimbal. Can't adjust volume though, changing menu settings would be tricky. So yes, I'm pretty restricted there compared to handheld. When I get a moment, I shall have to upload a video demonstrating this.

I suppose from my perspective, I use the monopod in the way you use handheld, so for me the difference is rather between the monopod and gimbal as opposed to handheld and stabiliser for you. In that I can see clear differences as you describe. Before the gimbal however, I only ever handheld the camera for walking back down the confetti line and for moving around the dance footage; in those cases, I have found the gimbal has replaced such shots when possible.
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Old June 14th, 2016, 04:21 AM   #21
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Re: Best shooting technique for hand held video

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I use the monopod in the way you use handheld
That again is very different, I can move to the left or right handheld while you have to lift a monopod to change position, handheld will give you more freedom to move your camera around. A monopod is only good if you want more controlled static shots with some panning motion. With my gx80 at the last wedding I was able to use the camera from different heights and angles in a much quicker way that ever could do on a monopod without having any restriction where I held my camera as opposed of having a leg dangling under your camera that often gets in the way.
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Old June 14th, 2016, 04:27 AM   #22
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Re: Best shooting technique for hand held video

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Originally Posted by Noa Put View Post
That again is very different, I can move to the left or right handheld while you have to lift a monopod to change position, handheld will give you more freedom to move your camera around. A monopod is only good if you want more controlled static shots with some panning motion. With my gx80 at the last wedding I was able to use the camera from different heights and angles in a much quicker way that ever could do on a monopod without having any restriction where I held my camera as opposed of having a leg dangling under your camera that often gets in the way.
Nevertheless, that's how I use it. We film different ways Noa. I can't zoom with my camera either, so I don't try. I can use my monopod at different heights, holding it above my head. Useful for some dancefloors and occasionally at Ceremonies where field of view is blocked. I'm not knocking handheld or saying its wrong to use it. I just don't use it the way you do. Personal preference you can call it.
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Old June 14th, 2016, 04:32 AM   #23
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Re: Best shooting technique for hand held video

I"m only saying as you make it sound it's the same, it isn't.
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Old June 14th, 2016, 08:44 AM   #24
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Re: Best shooting technique for hand held video

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Originally Posted by Steve Burkett View Post
Going back to the original question. If using a shoulder rig, to disguise camera wobble you have got to have either the camera image in motion (panning, zooming included) or have the subjects themselves moving. Or both for that matter. Camera wobble only becomes most noticeable when you're trying to hold the camera still on non moving subjects. That is the draw back of shooting handheld. Perhaps a minor one depending on what you shoot. If stable footage is important in such cases, then you need to think about either some form of stabiliser (external or internal) or use a monopod. Though none of these options are handheld, they do allow you more freedom when shooting run n gun than a tripod.
Thanks, Steve. While the discussion of stabilizers, gimbals, monopods, and 5-axis in-camera stabilization are interesting, I'm trying to minimize the noticeable wobble/shake of my LS-300 when on my shoulder mount. So technique, rather than different equipment is my focus. I have tried a monopod and my experience thus far is that it is not quite as stable as my shoulder rig, which is very heavy and uses its inertia to dampen camera movement.

My original post was a reaction to watching the live feed from a cameraman following a group during a televised golf tournament. He was using a large shoulder mount camera and kept the camera in continuous motion (slight pans and zooms) so any wobble/shake was not noticeable. That prompted the question as to whether there were additional techniques I could employ in my shooting.

I'm pretty much a newbie when it comes to serious video, so the collective wisdom of the forum is very much appreciated.
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Old June 14th, 2016, 08:52 AM   #25
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Re: Best shooting technique for hand held video

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Originally Posted by Luke Miller View Post

My original post was a reaction to watching the live feed from a cameraman following a group during a televised golf tournament. He was using a large shoulder mount camera and kept the camera in continuous motion (slight pans and zooms) so any wobble/shake was not noticeable. That prompted the question as to whether there were additional techniques I could employ in my shooting.

I'm pretty much a newbie when it comes to serious video, so the collective wisdom of the forum is very much appreciated.
I can't really think of any other techniques that are available. Unless you're swinging your camera about, wobble will only become really obvious in static shots, so keeping the camera or your subjects in motion will disguise it. Moving your camera without going overboard is the real skill, keeping such movement subtle where needed whilst still being effective in hiding the shake. In that case, I would say practise is your best answer. The more you shoot, the more accomplished your technique. As Chris said, there is leeway when it comes to camera movement and it doesn't have to be perfect. Just not as bad as novices' home movies, but then that's a pretty low bar..
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Old June 14th, 2016, 09:09 AM   #26
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Re: Best shooting technique for hand held video

I have a ls300 and use the 12-35mm lens on it so I can tell you what I have done to stabilize handheld shooting, I got a small springloaded monopod which was too long but that I cut to custom length and I have a tactical vest from lowepro where this monopod is attached to, you can ofcourse also suspend it from a belt but I have found that you get a bit more unwanted motion when you move. The monopod takes all the weight out of my hands and the spring inside the monopod helps keeping it more stable. It's not perfect but I find my handheld footage pretty stable.
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Old June 14th, 2016, 03:00 PM   #27
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Re: Best shooting technique for hand held video

Steve, Noa

Thank you for your suggestions.

Regards,
Luke
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Old June 14th, 2016, 06:50 PM   #28
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Re: Best shooting technique for hand held video

If you have a shoulder mount then the sprung rod is brilliant .. I had one for my Sony EA-50's and being very front heavy, the rod and waist belt helped a LOT ...definitely worth getting. Most prosumer cameras or cameras that go onto a shoulder mount are very badly balanced ..I think the only exception is the JVC 700 or 800 series where if you put the camera on your shoulder it's neither front or back heavy which is more important to achieve if you are shooting from the shoulder. Just for interest I got my sprung rod from Camtree in India for the mere $60 .... It does need a bit of cleaning up so the rod pieces slide smoothly however the actual belt was useless so I just grabbed a LowePro fanny bag and used the belt from that and stitched a pocket in that. On my Panny's I'm currently using just a very simple piece of aluminium flat bar under the camera with a handle each side which gives me a two handed grip but for long winded processionals my arms get tired so I would like a mini support rod that is sprung to keep it stable. Where did you find a monopod section that was sprung Noa???
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Old June 14th, 2016, 07:25 PM   #29
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Re: Best shooting technique for hand held video

I have a shoulder mount but stopped using it because it was counter productive. While it did a great job distributing weight back to my shoulder making it easier to hold, the wide handles in the front acted like levers that multiplied the camera's yaw. Like putting your camera on the end of a sea saw a little motion on one end creates a lot on the other end.

I've found monopod a good compromise. Like others have said the inability to touch your camera on a gimbal/steady cam and complexity of setup and operation make it a challenge to use.

I've found that it's not hard to hold a camera until you strap on all manner of accessory and when a 5 minute speech turns into 20 minutes.
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Old June 15th, 2016, 01:20 AM   #30
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Re: Best shooting technique for hand held video

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Originally Posted by Steve Burkett View Post
I can use my monopod at different heights, holding it above my head. Useful for some dancefloors and occasionally at Ceremonies where field of view is blocked.
I raise my monopod all the time :) Very useful on multiple occasions when there are too many people!
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