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Shooting non-repeatable events: weddings, recitals, plays, performances...

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Old June 15th, 2018, 12:25 AM   #76
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Re: Where have all the wedding videographers gone?

Good news Hakob

Hmm if it wasn't so darn cold in Canada I'd love to go there and shoot weddings! We have a son and daughter-in-law in Montreal but when they start telling me "it's minus 35 degrees here today" I'm definately put off!!

Just for interest do you do long form or short form video??
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Old June 15th, 2018, 03:55 AM   #77
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Re: Where have all the wedding videographers gone?

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It seems that everything has done the full circle now and the full day coverage is back in vogue and appreciated by brides too so those that are producing only a short cinematic highlight of the complete day will probably fade into the background.
Not going to happen anytime soon, my impression based on my experience dealing with my own clients, following couples comments on bride/groom forums and looking at what the trends are in the videography world by following a facebookgroup with over 10k members for a year or so (not a part of that group anymore as I got too frustrated about the enormous amounts of ego and money driven attitude) is that either long form documentary and short form cinematic will continue to excist and have a place, the main difference is the pricing.

I think we have to be honest that most of us, including me, who react in this topic charge low prices for our work what is mainly documentary based and there is a hugh interest from couples with more limited budgets, this might give us the impression that cinematic will be a passing fad but this can't be further from the truth.

If in that weddingvideographer facebookgroup you mentioned that you charge around 2K you would be called out for dragging the entire weddingindustry down because you are undercharging, There was mostly cinematic weddings discussed and pricing ranging from at least 4K and upwards would be considered normal, the known guys like Ray Roman who charge 10K+ would often post but mainly to promote his workshops and to laugh at anyone who was charging low (like us guys here).

Allthough most deliver like 10min average highlights they do offer full ceremony or speeches, raw footage etc at prices higher then what we charge for a full day documentary coverage, weddingplanners who attract high end clients are often a keyfactor to team up with in order to secure these big budget clients.

More videographers that are interested in making cinematic films are able to charge more money for them because for a client it looks like there is much more production value and time spend to make it look this way, not all succeed in that, like beginners who want to jump on that train but miss the experience and/or talent to produce quality films with good images/sound and editing, if they don't succeed in selling at a high price they at least can finish editing quickly and move on to the next bride that one day will regret not having a full ceremony or speeches.
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Old June 15th, 2018, 08:58 AM   #78
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Re: Where have all the wedding videographers gone?

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If in that weddingvideographer facebookgroup you mentioned that you charge around 2K you would be called out for dragging the entire weddingindustry down because you are undercharging, There was mostly cinematic weddings discussed and pricing ranging from at least 4K and upwards would be considered normal, the known guys like Ray Roman who charge 10K+ would often post but mainly to promote his workshops and to laugh at anyone who was charging low (like us guys here).
I would be very suspicious of that bragging. I've seen the same among wedding photographers always talking up the number of bookings they have & the prices they are charging & it's usually so much BS. It's funny how the guys who claim to charge the most spend so much of their time running workshops to teach others how to be as succesful. Workshops are obviously even more profitable than weddings or perhaps just easier to get bookings.
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Old June 15th, 2018, 12:14 PM   #79
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Re: Where have all the wedding videographers gone?

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I would be very suspicious of that bragging
And do you think that does not happen either with those who charge low? :) Everytime I see a videographer reach their moment of fame, they start with workshops to share their secrets, obviously there is enough money to be made to make it worth their while because those workshops do require quite some preparation, it's not only what they make paid by the attendees but after that when they have it filmed and then post in online for sale and boom, you have got a wordlwide audience.

Cinematic wedding is only gaining in popularity mainly because of these "big earners", wether it's all true or not doesn't matter, not to those at least who want to look for that same pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.
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Old June 15th, 2018, 06:47 PM   #80
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Re: Where have all the wedding videographers gone?

Hey Noa

Maybe your side of the world is different but here we have a typical example of well known videographers and photographers just vanishing from view and then re-appearing later doing something else for a LOT less money. Actually the one in question was a $7000 minimum photographer and apart from supplying a bunch of edited images on a USB the only other thing he did was show his un-edited shots on a screen at the reception. I would suspect he was killed off for charging way too much .. he teaches kids photography at monthly workshops now and you can be sure he doesn't make $7000 in a day.

Yes the guys who buy a DSLR with a few kit lenses from the discount camera store and shoot weddings for a fraction of what others charge do exist nowdays in great numbers too and although some are charging ridiculous prices which would only make them beer money, some ARE charging a more realistic rate than the "braggers" who are doing the "it's a wedding so I can charge 3 times my normal costing"

I have a photographer friend who is fully booked out for 2018 yet I see brides asking for someone to do their wedding on FaceBook groups and they will get 30 or 40 replies from photographers who obviously are scratching for work ... Apart from consistency, my friend is simply booked out because he doesn't charge an arm and a leg and based on his home and lifestyle he is doing alright too!!

When I was full time we were booked solid by mid year and often taking bookings in the following year and beyond and making a good living simply because our packages were fair and good value for money. That's why people like Roger and Steve are doing well!!
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Old June 16th, 2018, 04:34 AM   #81
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Re: Where have all the wedding videographers gone?

Hi Chris,

A lot of good points in your post,and I think it brings up the question of what are we trying to achieve with the the work that we are doing?

One can follow the route of building a business that earns big bucks from each job, earns respect and perhaps admiration from others in the business and enables us to produce work with high technical and artistic value. There are many different routes, but my requirements are to give me an income that enables us to enjoy our home, pay our bills and have leisure time to do the things we enjoy. For that,we need a good spread of bookings so that we can afford to lose a few without it impacting our overall income. We achieve that by targeting the largest sector of the wedding market in our part of the world, which is the lower middle to middle price range. We like to build a friendly relationship with our clients which makes for an easier day and also leads to future work with friends and family of the couple.

I have zero concerns about what others in the industry think of my work or approach as it has absolutely no bearing on what my clients think. I am not looking for status or admiration, just a comfortable living from doing something that I have enjoyed for almost 35 years.

I also follow my own direction sometimes against what the general opinion of others in the trade may think. The joint photo and video package being a good example of ignoring what others have said about not doing either well and doing what we feel competent at. The combined package has been a massive success for us, both solo and working together, with some great reviews from our clients.

My advice is always to listen and look at the competition, but follow the path that you are comfortable with and gives good returns, rather than just following fashion and emulating others. Above all, heed your clients first, not your peers.

Roger
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Old June 16th, 2018, 05:49 AM   #82
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Re: Where have all the wedding videographers gone?

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Good news Hakob

Hmm if it wasn't so darn cold in Canada I'd love to go there and shoot weddings! We have a son and daughter-in-law in Montreal but when they start telling me "it's minus 35 degrees here today" I'm definately put off!!

Just for interest do you do long form or short form video??
Hi Chris,
It' is not that cold in Canada and summer/fall/spring in here is quite nice and warm.
The only issue with weather in Canada really is that winter is too long, like 5 months...

Well I do wedding trailers and full length (1-2 hours) documentaries of the wedding day.
There are some couples that just go for trailers only but most couples want trailer + full film.
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Old June 16th, 2018, 06:21 AM   #83
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Re: Where have all the wedding videographers gone?

Thanks Roger
You and I have always seen eye to eye and in my opinion you have carefully looked at your market and calculated a package that the average bride in your region can afford without too much hardship.

We still combine our live packages with photography ..in fact our last wedding was photography only and at the end of this month we are also doing a live video/photography combined and at this time of the year (remember it's a wet and cold Winter here now!!) that doesn't happen often.

Good luck to the guys that claim they never charge less than $10,000 for photos or video but I really wonder if they have consistent work?? I could see that being a reality in Hollywood but not in normal suburbs or towns. I actually remember some guy in LA complaining the car park at the venue was full and most of the cars were either Ferrari's or Lamborginis ... I could quite easily imagine a 6 figure video price tag for that sort of gig but that's about all!!
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Old June 16th, 2018, 06:28 AM   #84
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Re: Where have all the wedding videographers gone?

Thanks Hakob

Seriously?? the kids never seem to mention that the Winters are that long!! They are visiting Australia in 2 weeks ... You have to remember I'm a warm weather animal and even now in Winter here it's at the moment it's probably around 60F and my cold threshold is a closer to 70F ... to me that's freezing already but remember over here it's not uncommon for our temperatures at a wedding to go over 100F most Summer days!!

Hope business to good since you guys are in Summer now which would be a good time for weddings
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Old June 18th, 2018, 02:59 PM   #85
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Re: Where have all the wedding videographers gone?

I am not for one moment thinking that cinematic edits are either just a passing fad or even less important than documentary. However as more and more Videographers turn to Cinematic edits as the norm, those clients wanting documentary face a smaller pool of talent to pick from. It's easy to stand out amongst a small pool of talent, hence I feel why I'm successful. Though admittedly, it's not that easy a ride and requires good marketing to reach new clients amongst the pool of low charging Photographers offering video and the weekend warriors. :)

Am I dragging the Video Wedding industry down with my prices. Nah. No more than MacDonalds is dragging down the food industry from 5 star restaurants. Different prices and needs from clients with different budgets and requirements from those wanting a 2k plus Wedding Video service. Those who do, will never trouble me.

I'm sure some may laugh at my service. But then some will laugh at all Wedding Videographers, for simply filming Weddings and not something more high profile. Who cares in the end. No matter how successful, you're still not going to be respected by some and laughed at by others. Do what's right for you as others opinions don't matter in the grand scale of things.

Last edited by Steve Burkett; June 18th, 2018 at 10:57 PM.
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Old June 25th, 2018, 07:47 PM   #86
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Re: Where have all the wedding videographers gone?

with the cinematic vs documentary, why not just do both?

Best of both worlds, it seems. Pretty much everyone wants the cool looking highlight, but there's so many little moments in the full video, I can't imagine missing out on those.
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Old June 25th, 2018, 10:25 PM   #87
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Re: Where have all the wedding videographers gone?

Steve? As long as your prices allow you to make a decent profit/living I really don't care whether I'm called "cheap" or "pricey" ... I have seen videographers and photographers that can only be classified as a total ripoff ....and if brides want to overpay just to say "look how much mt wedding video cost me" that's their problem. We have videographers here who will do ceremony and reception for as little as $400 ... seriously I don't see how but if they make a profit good for them. If a videographer can also sucker a bride into paying $15000 for a video then good for them too!!

Also Steven Shea ?..it's OK doing a cinematic and doc version of a wedding but make sure you cost for both!!
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