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Old May 17th, 2018, 06:20 PM   #1
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Recital Frame Rate 60i vs 30P

So Mr. Google has sent me down a rabbit hole, and there are differing opinions.
When shooting a Dance Recital (Camera A & Camera B) what frame rate is suggested?
The footage will be ingested into a NLE, edited, and then burned to DVDs

60i - 60 Frames Per Second, interlaced
PF30 - 30 Frames Per Second, progressive
Edit: These are the only 2 modes (besides 24P)

I've read some people that advocate 60i since it shows best on HDTV, but my final output is DVD
Other's have said PF30 is best for editing and posting to the Web.

Any thoughts?

Last edited by Vince Pachiano; May 17th, 2018 at 07:35 PM. Reason: Add comment that only 60i & 30P are available
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Old May 17th, 2018, 06:37 PM   #2
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Re: Recital Frame Rate 60i vs 30P

Shoot 60i or 60p ( they are the same temporal motion ) for smooth dance motion and then go to 60i DVD. Shooting 60P it is easy to make 60i for DVD and either 60P or 30P for the WEB
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Old May 17th, 2018, 10:01 PM   #3
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Re: Recital Frame Rate 60i vs 30P

Most modern camcorders suitable and affordable for this type of work shoot 30p, that's what I use.
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Old May 17th, 2018, 10:23 PM   #4
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Re: Recital Frame Rate 60i vs 30P

For dancing use 60p, transfer to the web in 60p and for DVD convert it to 60i.
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Old May 17th, 2018, 11:45 PM   #5
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Re: Recital Frame Rate 60i vs 30P

I would have thought 30p unless you intend to do some slow motion, then 60p.
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Old May 18th, 2018, 12:59 AM   #6
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Re: Recital Frame Rate 60i vs 30P

Quote:
60i - 60 Frames Per Second, interlaced
PF30 - 30 Frames Per Second, progressive
I'm surprised someone hasn't pointed out that 60i is 60 fields per second, not 60 frames, so it equates to 30 fps.

It is used by TV companies in this country (50i as it's PAL land) for sports and action stuff because it makes motion look a little smoother, since the movement is spread over 2 interlaced half frames. It's good for TV, but needs de-interlacing for computer viewing.
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Old May 18th, 2018, 01:32 AM   #7
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Re: Recital Frame Rate 60i vs 30P

60i is the NTSC TV and DVD specs. 60i is 60 interlaced fields per second which is half the scan line of a full frame.

30p is not part of NTSC standard. However 30p video can still be broadcast or store on DVD by converting the 30p video into 60i using a method called Progressive Segmented Frame (PsF). The progressive video content can still be preserved as each full frame will be broken down into 2 interlaced fields. So in the 60i video, Each 2 fields contain the same information. Thus even tho it is 60i, you wont' see any interlace lines.

The PsF method canon uses is called PF30.

Interlaced video works best on CRT TV. But for flat screen TV, Best go with PF30 on your camera. When viewing on computer, no interlace line. When converting to mpeg-2 for DVD, make sure you select the preset MPEG-2 for DVD. The encoder will convert the 30p video into 60i. There is no visual lost of image quality but it fits the NTSC standard to store on DVD (or broadcast over the air).

With the new HDTV NTSC spec, sports program is broadcast in 720p60 for the crispy motion captured (or 720p50 in PAL land).

60i because of the high frame rate, it deliver the sharp motion vivid color of video that is perceived as "cheap home video" or "day time soap opera" effect.

To make life easier, I would suggest shooting PF30.
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Old May 18th, 2018, 01:45 AM   #8
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Re: Recital Frame Rate 60i vs 30P

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Baker View Post
It's good for TV, but needs de-interlacing for computer viewing.
If you record 60p you avoid having to deinterlace, making 60p to 60i for DVD is trivial.

Unless you intentionally want a 24p filmic show why anyone would recommend 30p over 60P (and 60i) for action is beyond me.
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Old May 18th, 2018, 02:51 AM   #9
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Re: Recital Frame Rate 60i vs 30P

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If you record 60p you avoid having to deinterlace, making 60p to 60i for DVD is trivial.
Certainly. But the OP can only record 60i, PF30 or 24p.
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Old May 18th, 2018, 06:19 AM   #10
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Re: Recital Frame Rate 60i vs 30P

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Baker View Post
I'm surprised someone hasn't pointed out that 60i is 60 fields per second, not 60 frames, so it equates to 30 fps.

It is used by TV companies in this country (50i as it's PAL land) for sports and action stuff because it makes motion look a little smoother, since the movement is spread over 2 interlaced half frames. It's good for TV, but needs de-interlacing for computer viewing.
Timecode for NTSC interlace is 29.97 frames a second ( 60i ) but the camera is taking the same picture rate as 59.94 fps ( 60P ) . They are just fields not frames so half the vertical resolution. So 60i and 60P are the same temporal motion but 60i has half the vertical resolution and that is the only difference. Unfortunately of course a PC does not always deinterlaced correctly and show jaggies. Adding the fields together to make a frame does not work as the fields were not taken at the same time so the difference is shown as jagged edges. The frame rate coincides with the interlace sync pulse to indicate the start of a 2 field sequence. It is not the same as 30P. Shooting 60P ( 59.94 fps ) allows you to have the smooth motion of 60i for DVD and still get 60P or 30P for PC viewing. Most NLE's will extract fields from the 60P ( edit on a interlace timeline ) Also NLE will allow you to extract a 30P version too ( just drop every other frame ). Personally I prefer the smooth look of the higher frame rate.
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Old May 18th, 2018, 06:25 AM   #11
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Re: Recital Frame Rate 60i vs 30P

Just read OP post again after edit . I would shoot 60i as he is going to DVD. Better smooth motion for a dance and will show fine on a TV from a DVD or Bluray player.
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Old May 18th, 2018, 11:35 PM   #12
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Re: Recital Frame Rate 60i vs 30P

I would still suggest PF30. Dance Recital is for parents which they won't be concerning about smooth motion. But the overall look will speak to them as the general impression of the video work. 60i has the "cheap home video" look. 30p with the progressive nature, it is closer to the film look. :)
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Old May 19th, 2018, 06:52 AM   #13
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Re: Recital Frame Rate 60i vs 30P

But they do not want the "film " look. They want to relive the experience of the performance. They want a live look. To be there again. I also disagree about " cheep home video " look. To them it will look just like TV. They also do not want juddering on pans etc that is characteristic of inexperienced camera operators thinking they are film makers shooting 30 P or worse 24P. If you shoot 60i ( or 60P ) at 1/60 shutter it will have the same motion blur as 30P if you do not move the camera fast in pans and zooms it will be difficult to tell from 30P but much smoother motion and NO judder.
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Old May 22nd, 2018, 08:19 AM   #14
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Re: Recital Frame Rate 60i vs 30P

I used to record them at 60i back in the SD days when I had to, and that goes over well to DVD which is 60i. (I personally would never do one in 24P).

As soon as I got HD cameras I switched to progressive but back then they couldn't do 1080 60P so I shot at 720 60P and it works great going to DVD. Also gives flexibility to do slow motion.

I've also shot 1080 30P and it works fine and converts nicely to 60i. Progressive footage converts fine going to DVD (lower field 1st) or Blu-ray (upper field 1st) since it's progressive to start out with and requires no field swapping.
The motion has not been a problem for me at 30P nor have pans. I've even mixed 60P and 30P footage.

Another thing to consider is I like to not only make the DVDs for the end user but also archive some of the footage for promotional purposes and I simply do not like interlaced footage.

So my vote:
1. 60P (Sounds like it may not be an option in your case though)
2. 30P
3. 60i
4. 24P
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