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Shooting non-repeatable events: weddings, recitals, plays, performances...


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Old November 3rd, 2005, 09:26 AM   #1
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How do you folks handle the nit-pickers?

Here's the setup: Photomontage completed for viewing at reception. After viewing it, the couple comes back with a page items they want tweaked. Example:

They want to add another photo.
They want more "effects" on some pictures (I am against this)
They want to add their logo (seal)
They want more emphasis on certain pictures.

This is another complicated 3D AE project that is not easy to change up too much. How much back and forth do you do with customers? I am afraid of setting the precedent of these sort of "corrections". As you all know weddings don't really pay enough to make a long drawn out proofing period economically viable.

What do you do?

thanks

Mike
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Old November 3rd, 2005, 09:38 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Cook
How do you folks handle the nit-pickers?

Here's the setup: Photomontage completed for viewing at reception. After viewing it, the couple comes back with a page items they want tweaked. Example:

They want to add another photo.
They want more "effects" on some pictures (I am against this)
They want to add their logo (seal)
They want more emphasis on certain pictures.

This is another complicated 3D AE project that is not easy to change up too much. How much back and forth do you do with customers? I am afraid of setting the precedent of these sort of "corrections". As you all know weddings don't really pay enough to make a long drawn out proofing period economically viable.

What do you do?

thanks

Mike
In my professional experience you want to have some control never let anyone have all the control. Plus you are the designer explain to them that this will take time 1st and that too much isn't always good.

You pretty much want to convey that you're willing to work however there
are limits to their price range, in other words they can't expect to get a $5000 (example) for $2300. Ask them exactly what they are trying to do
get it on paper and tell them how long and how much more it will cost.

You want them to be happy, but not break you in turn.
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Old November 3rd, 2005, 10:24 AM   #3
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I've had a few clients that have tried 'swaying' me into doing more than they paid for. If you let them know how much more you will be charging for your additional time, they should back off. Ha Ha Ha.
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Old November 3rd, 2005, 12:12 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Cook
How do you folks handle the nit-pickers?

Here's the setup: Photomontage completed for viewing at reception. After viewing it, the couple comes back with a page items they want tweaked. Example:

They want to add another photo.
They want more "effects" on some pictures (I am against this)
They want to add their logo (seal)
They want more emphasis on certain pictures.

This is another complicated 3D AE project that is not easy to change up too much. How much back and forth do you do with customers? I am afraid of setting the precedent of these sort of "corrections". As you all know weddings don't really pay enough to make a long drawn out proofing period economically viable.

What do you do?

thanks

Mike

Mike,

I wouldn't talk about additional charges. For a couple additional hours of your time, the potential to generate referrals definately outweighs the few bucks you can make with an add-on charge.

Consider that in the big picture, wedding videographers are granted editorial latitude that the videographer in the corporate world can only dream about.
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Old November 3rd, 2005, 12:12 PM   #5
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I assume that this is a corporate client, and if so, they're probably trying to portray their image to a fine detail, rather than trying to take advantage of you.

I would just communicate with them clearly that this would increase the price to XYZ, and it's up to them if they still want the changes.

I have a client that changes their expectations in quality based on project per project, I just keep in communication with them clearly what they want for each project. Then I throw in something a little extra just to keep them happy.
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Old November 3rd, 2005, 06:53 PM   #6
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All good thoughts.

It all went down like this. I picked 4 items that I could do in about 2 hours and agreed to make those changes. Two items that would have resulted in about 10 hours of work I told them I would have to bill them for.

Their response was excellent. They were very happy with the changes and agreed the two other items were not worth the money/effort. Everybody is happy.

Pretty much the way you want it to go!

Mike
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Old November 3rd, 2005, 07:20 PM   #7
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i haven't had to face this yet. but in my contract i tell clients that it is my goal to please them but that editing is a creative process and not everyone agrees, if they want changes made after delivery there will be additional charges.
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Old November 3rd, 2005, 07:38 PM   #8
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Good Job Mike !!!!
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Old November 9th, 2005, 06:26 PM   #9
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My mechanic has a sign in his office that reads something like . . .

My hourly rate: $40
My hourly rate with you watching: $60
My hourly rate with you giving advice: $80

That's the general idea. The actual sign is much funnier. The point is that people are paying me to edit their wedding footage on my own. All of my clients have seen examples of my work, and I feel that as long as I stay consistent with those examples, then I have done my job.

Clients can always find something to change. For that matter, I could spend forever tweaking a video. But unless you state in your contract that the client may make changes post-delivery, or unless you've made a mistake of some sort, then your obligation (in my opinion) is to do work according to what you've shown your client.

Also, if you're like me, you have enough video projects on the table that you can't just keep someone's project on your hard drives in case they want to come back and make changes. You have to move on to other projects.
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Old November 10th, 2005, 10:01 AM   #10
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All true.

It is an odd thing this wedding biz. When I do corporate work it is pretty straight forward, additional editing means additional costs. Weddings seem to run under different rules.

I suppose the combination of working with individuals and the emotional nature of the work comes into play. An important factor is the "vendor review". The Knot can make or break you around here (LA) so you have to judge these things carefully. I am finding it challenging to make the work cost effective especially when I have lots of corp and other stuff going on. Time to run the numbers again I suppose.

I really enjoy the work but one does have to keep an eye on the business model.

Cheers

mike
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Old November 10th, 2005, 11:49 AM   #11
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Mike,

This may help in the future in case you run into a couple which is not as responsive to you suggestion, which often happens at least once. We include in our contract that a reasonable amount of changes can be done to the screening copy of a wedding video or reception presentation, and that major changes will have to be billed for. It can really help cover you if a problem does arise.
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Old November 10th, 2005, 06:48 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Cook
All true.

I am finding it challenging to make the work cost effective especially when I have lots of corp and other stuff going on. Time to run the numbers again I suppose.

I really enjoy the work but one does have to keep an eye on the business model.

Cheers

mike

This is all too important I also do corporate work. When you consider changes include editing time, possibly rendering, rencoding and making DVDs, even a few changes can tie up a day or even two.

On the one hand I can afford to charge a little bit lower for weddings than my corporate rate because weddings are "bulk" work but as soon as wedding customers start requesting changes I have to charge my corporate rate otherwise it's just not worth it.

Wedding clients who hire me understand I have to have control (short of a mistake in leaving something out I should have left in). For this reason I leave my wedding videos long. Sometimes close to two hours. If one is going to include a potential round of revisions you have to factor that in to your price.

For me a wedding is a one day shoot and up to a 40 hour work week of editing. If I have to spend a day or more on revisions and burning DVDs I can't/won't give away that time.
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Old November 13th, 2005, 01:47 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Travis Cossel
My mechanic has a sign in his office that reads something like . . .

My hourly rate: $40
My hourly rate with you watching: $60
My hourly rate with you giving advice: $80

That's the general idea. The actual sign is much funnier. The point is that people are paying me to edit their wedding footage on my own. All of my clients have seen examples of my work, and I feel that as long as I stay consistent with those examples, then I have done my job.

Clients can always find something to change. For that matter, I could spend forever tweaking a video. But unless you state in your contract that the client may make changes post-delivery, or unless you've made a mistake of some sort, then your obligation (in my opinion) is to do work according to what you've shown your client.

Also, if you're like me, you have enough video projects on the table that you can't just keep someone's project on your hard drives in case they want to come back and make changes. You have to move on to other projects.
what he said x2
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