Saving Grace at DVinfo.net

Mike Begalla · June 17th, 2006, 10:28 PM

This post is a lesson (to me anyway) on ignorance and luck. I just finished my first wedding in which I had an opportunity to use my new Senn wireless. It worked flawlessly for the ceremony. Thinking ahead, I figured that I would also possibly need to use it with a handheld mic during the reception for interviews if the music got too loud. However, the way that I thought the wireless system worked with my VX2100, and the way it really worked, were totally different. I thought that the line-in/mic switch was for selecting; "line-in" = wireless or anything else plugged into the jack, and "mic" = on board camera mic. So I kept the receiver plugged in, made sure the switch was on "mic", turned the receiver off, started shooting, AND DIDN'T CHECK A THING. 2/3 of the way through the reception something happened that caused me to check my audio...nothing but silence. It's then I found out that, anything that is plugged into the audio jack will cancel the onboard mic...YIKES! No audio during the introduction, toasts, interviews, etc, what a crisis. My first thoughts were "How much money will I have to take off for this fiasco."
Now for the saving grace part. When I was done with the ceremony, for no particular reason, I thought, "Hey, I should clip this lav mic on me and plug it into my digital recorder so I could catch some things during the reception when the camera is not running." So I did just that, clipped on the lav mic and stuck the recorder in my pocket. This, needless to say, saved my butt. Once I realized that I had backup for my audio crisis, I swear I heard angels singing. I have to do some EQ work and sync it up, but from what little I've done with it already, it's going to be alright.

The moral of this post...know your equipment inside and out, and use BACKUP, BACKUP, BACKUP.

Oh by the way, if I still am wrong on how I think I understand the mic/line-in wireless setup, will someone let me know.

Anders Risvold · June 19th, 2006, 03:02 AM

Somtimes is better to be lucky than good.

Good for you it turned out ok ! :)

Ok, mic/line thing:

I dont know that particular camera or the switch between them, but I would suspect it swiches between preamp and not preamp.

Line in is used for sources that are already amplified, that be mp3 player, direct from amplifier/mixing board etc.

Mic in indicates that it uses some built in preamp in your device (and this is needed as most mics dont have this).

So what probably happened is that your camera recognized an external source for audio in (the mic plug), and thus turned off the on-camera mic. Hovewer, as you had turned off the receiver, no audio where recorded in.

I could be wrong, though. Im not so experienced with audio myself.

Mark Von Lanken · June 19th, 2006, 10:35 AM

Hi Mike,

On the VX-2100 the on camera mic is disabled when you plug anything into the mini jack. It doesn't matter where the selector is positioned, the on camera mic is turned off in that situation.

Did you wear headphones during the ceremony? I wear headphones during the ceremony and reception. I have a $20 pair of Sony headphones. They are the type that rap behind your head and are low profile. They work out really nice for the run and gun approach when shooting weddings.

I'm glad that you did have a backup.

Mike Begalla · June 19th, 2006, 07:45 PM

Thanks for the explanation and confirmation on the audio jack. As far as the headphones. I wear them during the ceremony, but usually don't during the reception...until now that is.

Chris Hurd · June 19th, 2006, 09:10 PM

If your big 'ol "cans" are too dorky and / or obtrusive for the reception, switch to some tiny little ear buds. Not too noticeable, and they'll save yer butt in the long run. Great discussion,

Glen Elliott · June 19th, 2006, 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Hurd

If your big 'ol "cans" are too dorky and / or obtrusive for the reception, switch to some tiny little ear buds. Not too noticeable, and they'll save yer butt in the long run. Great discussion,

I find that headphones serve as a dual purpose at receptions. Not only can they provide audio monitoring but they also save your ears from the music the DJ is relentlessly blasting out of his 100" woofers several feet away.

Peter Jefferson · June 20th, 2006, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glen Elliott

I find that headphones serve as a dual purpose at receptions. Not only can they provide audio monitoring but they also save your ears from the music the DJ is relentlessly blasting out of his 100" woofers several feet away.

Hahahahaha
Damn man, ow true..

I use a set of Pioneers... pretty chunky but the best headfones on the market IMO

Ben Brainerd · June 20th, 2006, 01:12 PM

I've got a pair of Shure E1s that are just amazing. They're designed as In-Ear monitors for musicians and whatnot, so they isolate sound like nobody's business. With them in my ears, I don't hear anything besides what's coming through the camera. Very handy when the only good spot for a particular shot is right in front of the aforementioned 100" woofers.

Mike Begalla · June 20th, 2006, 07:23 PM

Clearly, you can not detemine how good your audio actually is unless you use some sort of noise canceling phones. The Shure in-ear phones sounded interesting, in that, you get noise canceling performance in a small package. I have to come to grips with the price though.

David McKnight · July 28th, 2006, 04:36 PM

The main thing that makes the Shures more expensive is the sound quality - it's amazingly good. Definitely makes a difference if you're a vocalist or musician in a band and need to have a wide freq range - bass drum, bass guitar, vocals, etc. But, for general use to cut outside sound and make sure your signal is good, Koss makes a set of in-ear with different size inserts. They're foam, and they feel like the cheap earplugs you squeeze and put in your ears. Cost about $15 - 20 at places like Best Buy.

Hey Mike you're just up the road from me. Are you in the Houston PVA?

Noah Hayes · July 28th, 2006, 08:23 PM

I also use the Shures but I have the E3C model. They are not actually sound-canceling (which is good, active noise canceling adds some artifacting into the audio) they are sound-isolating, they have very nice rubber and plastic pieces to put on to fit in your ear the way you want. They block sound very well and sound VERY good, I use them whenever I need to monitor audio that is critical...the one caveat is you need to keep an eye on incoming volume, I accidentally had my headphones turned up too high one time, and the volume I recorded was FAR too quiet and I had to do alot to boost the signal.

Peter Jefferson · July 28th, 2006, 09:28 PM

"On the VX-2100 the on camera mic is disabled when you plug anything into the mini jack. It doesn't matter where the selector is positioned, the on camera mic is turned off in that situation."

In case anyoen was wondering, this behaviour is also seen on almost every camera with a 3.5mm jack... plug in a mic, and oncam mics die..

The only time this doesnt apply is if the camera has a setting or switch (physical or through a menu)

as for the Shures, i was looking at a a pair of senny in ear CX300's
$75 bux, not too heavy on the wallet, but im not sure about quality...

http://www.wickeddigital.com.au/prod...cat=359&page=1

June 17th, 2006, 10:28 PM	#1
Mike Begalla Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: League City, Texas Posts: 27	Saving Grace This post is a lesson (to me anyway) on ignorance and luck. I just finished my first wedding in which I had an opportunity to use my new Senn wireless. It worked flawlessly for the ceremony. Thinking ahead, I figured that I would also possibly need to use it with a handheld mic during the reception for interviews if the music got too loud. However, the way that I thought the wireless system worked with my VX2100, and the way it really worked, were totally different. I thought that the line-in/mic switch was for selecting; "line-in" = wireless or anything else plugged into the jack, and "mic" = on board camera mic. So I kept the receiver plugged in, made sure the switch was on "mic", turned the receiver off, started shooting, AND DIDN'T CHECK A THING. 2/3 of the way through the reception something happened that caused me to check my audio...nothing but silence. It's then I found out that, anything that is plugged into the audio jack will cancel the onboard mic...YIKES! No audio during the introduction, toasts, interviews, etc, what a crisis. My first thoughts were "How much money will I have to take off for this fiasco." Now for the saving grace part. When I was done with the ceremony, for no particular reason, I thought, "Hey, I should clip this lav mic on me and plug it into my digital recorder so I could catch some things during the reception when the camera is not running." So I did just that, clipped on the lav mic and stuck the recorder in my pocket. This, needless to say, saved my butt. Once I realized that I had backup for my audio crisis, I swear I heard angels singing. I have to do some EQ work and sync it up, but from what little I've done with it already, it's going to be alright. The moral of this post...know your equipment inside and out, and use BACKUP, BACKUP, BACKUP. Oh by the way, if I still am wrong on how I think I understand the mic/line-in wireless setup, will someone let me know.

June 19th, 2006, 10:35 AM	#3
Mark Von Lanken Major Player Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Tulsa, OK Posts: 910	Hi Mike, On the VX-2100 the on camera mic is disabled when you plug anything into the mini jack. It doesn't matter where the selector is positioned, the on camera mic is turned off in that situation. Did you wear headphones during the ceremony? I wear headphones during the ceremony and reception. I have a $20 pair of Sony headphones. They are the type that rap behind your head and are low profile. They work out really nice for the run and gun approach when shooting weddings. I'm glad that you did have a backup. __________________ Mark Von Lanken www.VonWeddingFilms.com

June 19th, 2006, 09:10 PM	#5
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,366 Images: 513	If your big 'ol "cans" are too dorky and / or obtrusive for the reception, switch to some tiny little ear buds. Not too noticeable, and they'll save yer butt in the long run. Great discussion, __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

June 19th, 2006, 03:02 AM	#2
Anders Risvold Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Norway Posts: 72	Somtimes is better to be lucky than good. Good for you it turned out ok ! :) Ok, mic/line thing: I dont know that particular camera or the switch between them, but I would suspect it swiches between preamp and not preamp. Line in is used for sources that are already amplified, that be mp3 player, direct from amplifier/mixing board etc. Mic in indicates that it uses some built in preamp in your device (and this is needed as most mics dont have this). So what probably happened is that your camera recognized an external source for audio in (the mic plug), and thus turned off the on-camera mic. Hovewer, as you had turned off the receiver, no audio where recorded in. I could be wrong, though. Im not so experienced with audio myself.

June 19th, 2006, 07:45 PM	#4
Mike Begalla Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: League City, Texas Posts: 27	Thanks for the explanation and confirmation on the audio jack. As far as the headphones. I wear them during the ceremony, but usually don't during the reception...until now that is.

June 20th, 2006, 01:12 PM	#8
Ben Brainerd Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Jacksonville, FL Posts: 48	I've got a pair of Shure E1s that are just amazing. They're designed as In-Ear monitors for musicians and whatnot, so they isolate sound like nobody's business. With them in my ears, I don't hear anything besides what's coming through the camera. Very handy when the only good spot for a particular shot is right in front of the aforementioned 100" woofers.

June 20th, 2006, 07:23 PM	#9
Mike Begalla Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: League City, Texas Posts: 27	Clearly, you can not detemine how good your audio actually is unless you use some sort of noise canceling phones. The Shure in-ear phones sounded interesting, in that, you get noise canceling performance in a small package. I have to come to grips with the price though.

July 28th, 2006, 04:36 PM	#10
David McKnight Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Texas City, TX Posts: 39	The main thing that makes the Shures more expensive is the sound quality - it's amazingly good. Definitely makes a difference if you're a vocalist or musician in a band and need to have a wide freq range - bass drum, bass guitar, vocals, etc. But, for general use to cut outside sound and make sure your signal is good, Koss makes a set of in-ear with different size inserts. They're foam, and they feel like the cheap earplugs you squeeze and put in your ears. Cost about $15 - 20 at places like Best Buy. Hey Mike you're just up the road from me. Are you in the Houston PVA?

July 28th, 2006, 08:23 PM	#11
Noah Hayes Major Player Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Sterling, Virginia Posts: 226	I also use the Shures but I have the E3C model. They are not actually sound-canceling (which is good, active noise canceling adds some artifacting into the audio) they are sound-isolating, they have very nice rubber and plastic pieces to put on to fit in your ear the way you want. They block sound very well and sound VERY good, I use them whenever I need to monitor audio that is critical...the one caveat is you need to keep an eye on incoming volume, I accidentally had my headphones turned up too high one time, and the volume I recorded was FAR too quiet and I had to do alot to boost the signal.

July 28th, 2006, 09:28 PM	#12
Peter Jefferson Inner Circle Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Aus Posts: 3,884	"On the VX-2100 the on camera mic is disabled when you plug anything into the mini jack. It doesn't matter where the selector is positioned, the on camera mic is turned off in that situation." In case anyoen was wondering, this behaviour is also seen on almost every camera with a 3.5mm jack... plug in a mic, and oncam mics die.. The only time this doesnt apply is if the camera has a setting or switch (physical or through a menu) as for the Shures, i was looking at a a pair of senny in ear CX300's $75 bux, not too heavy on the wallet, but im not sure about quality... http://www.wickeddigital.com.au/prod...cat=359&page=1